right
Conservative
Posts: 18,875
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Post by right on Jun 12, 2024 10:47:40 GMT
Pointless. There is a Reform UK candidate. She will lose. In some ways it reflects the reality of half of the modern Tory party - its leader IS Nigel Farage even if he isn’t technically one of when. Where he goes they follow like demented little sheep The manifesto was clearly not his |
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Post by Yaffles on Jun 12, 2024 10:57:33 GMT
In some ways it reflects the reality of half of the modern Tory party - its leader IS Nigel Farage even if he isn’t technically one of when. Where he goes they follow like demented little sheep The manifesto was clearly not his Perhaps not all of it but National Service and the Rwanda scheme sound very UKIP/Brexity/Reformish to me. I was more making a point about him being a huge external influence on members/MPs/Clls inside the Tory party. This is not necessarily about specific policy but more about the way the party is being pulled in two directions and Sunak is clearly incapable of reconciling this problem. The Labour version would be if Corbyn had similar sway over Labour, he has some but nowhere near to the same degree, and he WAS the actual leader until relatively recently. |
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 9,144
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Post by cogload on Jun 12, 2024 10:58:02 GMT
What must other Tory candidates feel? Especially those who are facing a bleed off of votes to reform which could see them lose their seats?
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Post by Ron Swanson on Jun 12, 2024 11:07:03 GMT
That leaflet is definitely the work of someone who wasn’t sure which party they were going to stand for.
It’ll come as a surprise to nobody to learn that conversations did take place… with the Reform candidate offering to stand down in her favour if she switched to them.
Reform candidates didn’t do particularly well across West Yorkshire generally, so it isn’t a surprise that she blinked. Though of course she hasn’t endeared herself to CCHQ at various times, so I wonder if they’d be quite pleased to see a Labour gain here.
Which is what we are getting, if truth be told.
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Jun 12, 2024 11:08:55 GMT
The manifesto was clearly not his Perhaps not all of it but National Service and the Rwanda scheme sound very UKIP/Brexity/Reformish to me. I was more making a point about him being a huge external influence on members/MPs/Clls inside the Tory party. This is not necessarily about specific policy but more about the way the party is being pulled in two directions and Sunak is clearly incapable of reconciling this problem. The Labour version would be if Corbyn had similar sway over Labour, he has some but nowhere near to the same degree, and he WAS the actual leader until relatively recently. On the EU, Rwanda, protests, workers rights....you name it, the current Conservative Party is in lockstep with Reform. And I use lockstep deliberately! |
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Post by Strontium Dog on Jun 12, 2024 11:43:24 GMT
Sunak being cuckolded by his own candidates... you hate to see it
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Post by Ron Swanson on Jun 12, 2024 11:46:34 GMT
Pointless. There is a Reform UK candidate. She will lose. In some ways it reflects the reality of half of the modern Tory party - its leader IS Nigel Farage even if he isn’t technically one of when. Where he goes they follow like demented little sheep For someone who hasn't ever (yet!) been elected to Parliament, he hasn't half had a lot of influence over matters. Perhaps this election is where the at times fragile coalition that is the Conservative party finally breaks - some of them move towards their more natural homes in the Lib Dems and Reform respectively. |
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Post by Strontium Dog on Jun 12, 2024 12:09:47 GMT
Not sure there's that many Tories left who would be suitable for us. Most of the adults departed stage left some time ago.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2024 12:14:54 GMT
What is going on here then? I don't get it. |
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Post by Strontium Dog on Jun 12, 2024 12:16:20 GMT
What's to get? She's a Conservative candidate, and her election leaflet features an image of her posing not with her own party leader, but with Nigel Farage, leader of a different party. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2024 12:33:14 GMT
What's to get? She's a Conservative candidate, and her election leaflet features an image of her posing not with her own party leader, but with Nigel Farage, leader of a different party. I thought it might have been that she defected to Reform, but Farage and Jenkyns are ideological bedfellows, and she doesn't want to bleed votes to Reform. I believe that Jenkyns would nominate Farage for leader if he joined the Tory Party if she could. |
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right
Conservative
Posts: 18,875
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Post by right on Jun 12, 2024 12:45:20 GMT
The manifesto was clearly not his Perhaps not all of it but National Service and the Rwanda scheme sound very UKIP/Brexity/Reformish to me. I was more making a point about him being a huge external influence on members/MPs/Clls inside the Tory party. This is not necessarily about specific policy but more about the way the party is being pulled in two directions and Sunak is clearly incapable of reconciling this problem. The Labour version would be if Corbyn had similar sway over Labour, he has some but nowhere near to the same degree, and he WAS the actual leader until relatively recently. Doesn't he think the Rwanda scheme is rubbish? The view in most of the right of the current Rwanda scheme is that it's an Onward think tank ploy to look good leading to an election but dubiously constructed (designed?) to fail in the courts. I don't think Farage is a million miles from that view himself. |
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ricmk
Lib Dem
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Post by ricmk on Jun 12, 2024 13:01:59 GMT
It also shows up Sunak's weakness - he daren't take any action against one of his own candidates who's openly no-confidenced him posing with another leader who is standing against Cons.
He's too scared to suspend her as he fears the backlash from Reform-adjacent Tories. But he looks superweak leaving her in place.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2024 13:13:11 GMT
Objectively speaking, Farage should do a deal where he doesn't campaign too hard against Tory MPs who would support readmitting him to the party. He could be leader by the time of the party conference if he plays his cards right. Farage is giving Trump 2016 vibes though.
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 12, 2024 13:28:13 GMT
Objectively speaking, Farage should do a deal where he doesn't campaign too hard against Tory MPs who would support readmitting him to the party. He could be leader by the time of the party conference if he plays his cards right. Farage is giving Trump 2016 vibes though. But the Tories will split. The moderate One Nation Tories and the Right are not the same. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2024 13:29:14 GMT
Objectively speaking, Farage should do a deal where he doesn't campaign too hard against Tory MPs who would support readmitting him to the party. He could be leader by the time of the party conference if he plays his cards right. Farage is giving Trump 2016 vibes though. But the Tories will split. The moderate One Nation Tories and the Right are not the same. Yes. This process happened around six decades ago in the US. Labour is going to win the likes of York Outer, Rushcliffe, etc by more than this seat. |
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Post by Ron Swanson on Jun 12, 2024 13:56:01 GMT
It also shows up Sunak's weakness - he daren't take any action against one of his own candidates who's openly no-confidenced him posing with another leader who is standing against Cons. He's too scared to suspend her as he fears the backlash from Reform-adjacent Tories. But he looks superweak leaving her in place. You can't have a candidate posing with the leader of an opposition party and shoving the picture on an election leaflet, and not take action... surely? Especially when Farage is clearly on a mission to destroy the party. If a few of her fans defect to Reform it'll smooth the way for the next leader. He almost has a duty to act, for that reason alone. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2024 13:59:56 GMT
However, if they defect to Reform they can't vote for Farage to be Tory leader, or am I missing something here?
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 12, 2024 15:08:28 GMT
However, if they defect to Reform they can't vote for Farage to be Tory leader, or am I missing something here? It is down to 'Ifs'! If the Conservatives are over 100 they will attempt the rebuild and I doubt Farage plays any part at all. If they are a bit under 100 there will be disorientation coupled with a bit of despair. The leadership election will be critical and Farage not part of it. If they are reduced to a rump of 50 or fewer it all depends if there is a charismatic potential leader available at all and prepared to stand immediately after Sunak resigns and if he resigns? And it depends on the character of the remainder parliamentary party? If it is the same divided whole but just much smaller, Woden can only guess what may happen. If it is clearly still wet, woke and tentatively One Nation it may be shunned by the rest of the right. If it is dominated by real convinced right-wingers, then a merger or reverse takeover, or hostile takeover by Reform may be on the cards. The new party to embrace both words (conservative and reform). |
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 9,144
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Post by cogload on Jun 12, 2024 15:30:01 GMT
Oh my life...
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