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Post by mattbewilson on Jul 11, 2024 10:13:32 GMT
Next time round Labour might pick a more suitable candidate if Corbyn stands again? #justsaying So what does that look like? Labour kind of bottled it by selecting last minute, as they didn't want to split the local party ahead of the campaign. I could understand why, but it didn't exactly work out, and I see we have resignations in Islington Labour anyway. So that left a totally unknown candidate (outside his ward) up against the 40 year incumbent. Yes he could be attacked on private healthcare but he didn't have time to establish himself and probably a bigger issue? His health expertise could have been made a positive with more time. Surely if Labour are serious about winning this next time, they need to bite the bullet and select early? If that causes local angst then so be it - the damage is done and any challenger will need much more time to prove they can be as active an MP as the incumbent, who will be 80 odd by the time of the next election. IVF is very specific expertise though. My wife is a sister senographer at Jessop Fertility. If I ask her anything non fertility related she reminds me she hasn't practiced outside fertility treatment for several years now.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jul 11, 2024 10:15:09 GMT
It will surely be easier for Labour to handle things next time if Corbyn runs again, for obvious reasons. Apart from leaving things so late, last week's hopeful being so intimately linked with private health care was an easy "win" for his campaign - and one they duly exploited.
(which does not rule out him being returned for another, less sensitive, seat in 2028/29)
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batman
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Post by batman on Jul 11, 2024 11:08:54 GMT
Labour won't rush into selecting candidates, but it will be done in this constituency much, much earlier for sure. If it can't find one I'll do it
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Post by norflondon on Jul 11, 2024 11:25:19 GMT
I should have thought that an imposition of a candidate from Starmer would be wise. Otherwise the members may vote in a leftie or someone pretending to be a right winger but who's actually a leftie.
No chances ought to be taken surely?
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Post by stb12 on Jul 11, 2024 12:43:48 GMT
Off the top of my head I think I’m correct in saying that most of the historical examples of former Labour MP independents winning did eventually end up losing their seats to the official Labour candidate?
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batman
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Post by batman on Jul 11, 2024 12:46:14 GMT
S.O.Davies ended up dying. But yes that is generally true. The ILP is a different case as that was an actual party. In the case of the London mayoralty it ended with Ken Livingstone rejoining the fold, though eventually losing to the Conservatives.
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Post by stb12 on Jul 11, 2024 12:55:18 GMT
While he’s clearly in a healthy state for his age you never know what four or five years can being, if retirement appeals to Corbyn by the next election then he might be more comfortable doing so after this as he’s made the point of not letting Starmer force him out of parliament and it could easily be seen as on his own terms
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Post by mattbewilson on Jul 11, 2024 12:56:31 GMT
Labour won't rush into selecting candidates, but it will be done in this constituency much, much earlier for sure. If it can't find one I'll do it B for MP!
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right
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Post by right on Jul 11, 2024 13:13:16 GMT
Next time round Labour might pick a more suitable candidate if Corbyn stands again? #justsaying Corbyn isn't losing this. The tactical votes for Labour will unwind and he will win by more like 20 I'd have thought. He may not, but the allure of independent and small party MPs - with the exception of many Liberals - fades over time I suspect Corbyn's constituency work will help somewhat, but political gravity is a thing, and if it wasn't we'd have a lot more parties and Independents in parliament.
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john07
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Post by john07 on Jul 11, 2024 13:30:23 GMT
S.O.Davies ended up dying. But yes that is generally true. The ILP is a different case as that was an actual party. In the case of the London mayoralty it ended with Ken Livingstone rejoining the fold, though eventually losing to the Conservatives. Eddy Milne lost his Blyth seat to Labour (well it was John Ryman) after winning in February 1974. Dick Taverne lost Lincoln to Margaret Jackson (as was) in October 1974 after winning a by-election and holding on in February 1974.
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Post by John Chanin on Jul 11, 2024 13:44:21 GMT
While he’s clearly in a healthy state for his age you never know what four or five years can being, if retirement appeals to Corbyn by the next election then he might be more comfortable doing so after this as he’s made the point of not letting Starmer force him out of parliament and it could easily be seen as on his own terms That's how I read it yes.
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Post by norflondon on Jul 11, 2024 14:08:13 GMT
The Left and Corbyn need to start embedding in a successor to JC for the 2033/4 GE (or maybe the 2028/9). Islington N ought to be treated as hallowed ground for socialism in England and prepare a socialist to take over from Jeremy as an Independent. Perhaps Feinstein? Andrew Fisher?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2024 14:26:43 GMT
Corbyn isn't losing this. The tactical votes for Labour will unwind and he will win by more like 20 I'd have thought. He may not, but the allure of independent and small party MPs - with the exception of many Liberals - fades over time I suspect Corbyn's constituency work will help somewhat, but political gravity is a thing, and if it wasn't we'd have a lot more parties and Independents in parliament. That's true. Corbyn can't eep the Green vote down forever. If, as looks likely, they take six Councillors in 2026 (sorry to repeat that point) the Greens will probably look to boost their performance in 2029. Obviously general elections =/= local elections, but the Greens are getting entrenched in parts of Islington.
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right
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Post by right on Jul 11, 2024 14:53:12 GMT
The Left and Corbyn need to start embedding in a successor to JC for the 2033/4 GE (or maybe the 2028/9). Islington N ought to be treated as hallowed ground for socialism in England and prepare a socialist to take over from Jeremy as an Independent. Perhaps Feinstein? Andrew Fisher? It would be interesting to see if the left can manage to persuade Corbyn to do that. It would be a far bigger break with the party than standing against Labour and then voting mostly with the whip.
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Ports
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Post by Ports on Jul 11, 2024 15:19:06 GMT
The Left and Corbyn need to start embedding in a successor to JC for the 2033/4 GE (or maybe the 2028/9). Islington N ought to be treated as hallowed ground for socialism in England and prepare a socialist to take over from Jeremy as an Independent. Perhaps Feinstein? Andrew Fisher? Corbyn is Corbyn and I think even his endorsement would not guarantee the transfer of his voters to a new candidate in a significant enough number. The best chance is for there to be some broader credible place for left wing votes in seats like this - to achieve the effect and margin that Corbyn had here, said movement would probably have to be capable of taking the votes of those who voted Labour in other seats. As we've seen in this election circumstances why that might work are possible, but if this is to be planned now, such a movement would have to be ready and able to adapt to those future circumstances. I think while Andrew Fisher hypothetically leaving the Labour Party might be indicative of them having severe woes among the left, at this point his departure looks very unlikely and he has always been a 'stay and fight' advocate.
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Post by mattbewilson on Jul 11, 2024 15:38:25 GMT
This is the mistake the left made with the labour leadership. Members liked Jeremy. It wasn't necessarily what he said but it was him saying it. Once he was gone there wasn't anyone to replace him
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graham
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Post by graham on Jul 11, 2024 18:54:08 GMT
When Channel 4 interviewed Corbyn on their election night programme, studio guest Harriet Harman asked him a question and her attitude towards him stank. She was totally classless and came across as a horrible individual. I have zero admiration for her. Harriet Harman bears responsibility as Acting Labour Leader iin 2015 for Corbyn's ascent to the leadership. By whipping the PLP to abstain on Osborne's Welfare Reform proposals she effectively place the three other contenders - Yvette Cooper, Andy Burnham and Liz Kendall - in an impossible position as members of the Shadow Cabinet. They had little choice to abstain - whereas Corbyn as a backbencher was free to vote against the Osborne proposals. Corbyn's subsequent momentum owed everything to the outrage which eruptedamong the party membership. Perhaps Harman has belatedly come to recognise this, and her behaviour on election night might simply be an attempt to expunger her guilt for the course which events then took.
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Post by Strontium Dog on Jul 11, 2024 20:13:58 GMT
Next time round Labour might pick a more suitable candidate if Corbyn stands again? #justsaying So what does that look like? Someone who is even more hostile to Jewish liberation, and has even less education?
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Post by norflondon on Jul 12, 2024 8:41:53 GMT
Harriet Harman bears responsibility as Acting Labour Leader iin 2015 for Corbyn's ascent to the leadership. By whipping the PLP to abstain on Osborne's Welfare Reform proposals she effectively place the three other contenders - Yvette Cooper, Andy Burnham and Liz Kendall - in an impossible position as members of the Shadow Cabinet. They had little choice to abstain - whereas Corbyn as a backbencher was free to vote against the Osborne proposals. Corbyn's subsequent momentum owed everything to the outrage which eruptedamong the party membership. Perhaps Harman has belatedly come to recognise this, and her behaviour on election night might simply be an attempt to expunger her guilt for the course which events then took. [/quote]
Nah...I blame Eric Joyce
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Jul 12, 2024 9:06:06 GMT
Jeremy Corbyn became leader of the Labour Party because Labour Party members were stupid.
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