bsjmcr
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Post by bsjmcr on Jun 18, 2024 19:47:41 GMT
Peter Mandelson was out canvassing here. He reckons Jezza is going to lose (Times Radio). He would say that though, wouldn’t he. And I’m no Corbynista. Didn’t he go back to his beloved Hartlepool for the 2021 by election? That went well… |
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stb12
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Post by stb12 on Jun 18, 2024 20:00:09 GMT
Peter Mandelson was out canvassing here. He reckons Jezza is going to lose (Times Radio). He would say that though, wouldn’t he. And I’m no Corbynista. Didn’t he go back to his beloved Hartlepool for the 2021 by election? That went well… Although I’ve seen it said a lot that despite his establishment Blairite mastermind image he was actually pretty popular in his constituency |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 18, 2024 20:35:37 GMT
He would say that though, wouldn’t he. And I’m no Corbynista. Didn’t he go back to his beloved Hartlepool for the 2021 by election? That went well… Although I’ve seen it said a lot that despite his establishment Blairite mastermind image he was actually pretty popular in his constituency These people often are. IDS (also a very nice man in real life) is clearly well-liked up in Chingford, and if he survives, that's what will clinch it. |
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Post by mattbewilson on Jun 18, 2024 20:39:13 GMT
Although I’ve seen it said a lot that despite his establishment Blairite mastermind image he was actually pretty popular in his constituency These people often are. IDS (also a very nice man in real life) is clearly well-liked up in Chingford, and if he survives, that's what will clinch it. and not the labour party changing candidate half way through the general election campaign? |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 18, 2024 20:44:27 GMT
These people often are. IDS (also a very nice man in real life) is clearly well-liked up in Chingford, and if he survives, that's what will clinch it. and not the labour party changing candidate half way through the general election campaign? I think Labour will win, but I also think that Tadej Pogacar would think this thread features excessive ramp. |
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Post by observer on Jun 18, 2024 22:53:07 GMT
Although I’ve seen it said a lot that despite his establishment Blairite mastermind image he was actually pretty popular in his constituency These people often are. IDS (also a very nice man in real life) is clearly well-liked up in Chingford, and if he survives, that's what will clinch it. I confirm that IDS has very good manners. He was once electioneering in Ramsbottom and was in a hurry to get to his next appointment. I buttonholed him anyway. His aides were clearly jumpy about time but he was very generous and interesting |
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Post by norflondon on Jun 19, 2024 5:22:30 GMT
Corbyn is big favourite to win. Partly, a rejection of NHS privatisation promised by Labour's Streeting and the Lab ppc here, someone who is very keen to accelerate the privatisation of our NHS.
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Post by matureleft on Jun 19, 2024 5:45:49 GMT
Corbyn is big favourite to win. Partly, a rejection of NHS privatisation promised by Labour's Streeting and the Lab ppc here, someone who is very keen to accelerate the privatisation of our NHS. Bevan’s original design involved a partnership between the state and the private sector including a recognition of the hybrid position of many workers within the NHS. GPs aren’t state employees for example. There was no “line of principle” on the involvement of the private sector. The true line of principle, on which Bevan did fight, was whether the service, however provided, was free at the point of use, and that services were available regardless of means. |
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Jun 19, 2024 7:08:47 GMT
Corbyn is big favourite to win. Partly, a rejection of NHS privatisation promised by Labour's Streeting and the Lab ppc here, someone who is very keen to accelerate the privatisation of our NHS. Ipsos has Corbyn losing here. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 19, 2024 7:59:47 GMT
Corbyn is big favourite to win. Partly, a rejection of NHS privatisation promised by Labour's Streeting and the Lab ppc here, someone who is very keen to accelerate the privatisation of our NHS. Ipsos has Corbyn losing here. Never mind the poll,feel the ramp! |
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Post by mattbewilson on Jun 19, 2024 8:21:07 GMT
Corbyn is big favourite to win. Partly, a rejection of NHS privatisation promised by Labour's Streeting and the Lab ppc here, someone who is very keen to accelerate the privatisation of our NHS. Bevan’s original design involved a partnership between the state and the private sector including a recognition of the hybrid position of many workers within the NHS. GPs aren’t state employees for example. There was no “line of principle” on the involvement of the private sector. The true line of principle, on which Bevan did fight, was whether the service, however provided, was free at the point of use, and that services were available regardless of means. that was due to push back from the BMA, allowing doctors to not be state employees was to get the BMA onboard |
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Post by mattbewilson on Jun 19, 2024 8:21:29 GMT
Corbyn is big favourite to win. Partly, a rejection of NHS privatisation promised by Labour's Streeting and the Lab ppc here, someone who is very keen to accelerate the privatisation of our NHS. Ipsos has Corbyn losing here. with less than 13%... |
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Post by matureleft on Jun 19, 2024 8:30:08 GMT
Bevan’s original design involved a partnership between the state and the private sector including a recognition of the hybrid position of many workers within the NHS. GPs aren’t state employees for example. There was no “line of principle” on the involvement of the private sector. The true line of principle, on which Bevan did fight, was whether the service, however provided, was free at the point of use, and that services were available regardless of means. that was due to push back from the BMA, allowing doctors to not be state employees was to get the BMA onboard Indeed. And it’s that sort of compromise on which the NHS was founded. The state doesn’t build the hospitals, make the drugs and equipment or run the various ancillary services - pharmacies, dentists etc. Consultants can and do work privately. While it is a huge taxpayer-funded organisation it’s far from a state monolith. And the binding principles are the ones I’ve given, not that the state does or should do everything. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2024 9:06:49 GMT
Ipsos has Corbyn losing here. with less than 13%... 'Move to recycle bin' |
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Post by mattbewilson on Jun 19, 2024 9:22:56 GMT
that was due to push back from the BMA, allowing doctors to not be state employees was to get the BMA onboard Indeed. And it’s that sort of compromise on which the NHS was founded. The state doesn’t build the hospitals, make the drugs and equipment or run the various ancillary services - pharmacies, dentists etc. Consultants can and do work privately. While it is a huge taxpayer-funded organisation it’s far from a state monolith. And the binding principles are the ones I’ve given, not that the state does or should do everything. until PFI the state did build the hospitals, no? Wasn't that one of the big points of debate between Bevan and Herbert Morrison? Bevan wanted the hospitals to be under the state umbrella and not just the service. Also re dentists, I still go to an NHS dentist. Tho it's been a year! |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 19, 2024 11:30:16 GMT
Indeed. And it’s that sort of compromise on which the NHS was founded. The state doesn’t build the hospitals, make the drugs and equipment or run the various ancillary services - pharmacies, dentists etc. Consultants can and do work privately. While it is a huge taxpayer-funded organisation it’s far from a state monolith. And the binding principles are the ones I’ve given, not that the state does or should do everything. until PFI the state did build the hospitals, no? Wasn't that one of the big points of debate between Bevan and Herbert Morrison? Bevan wanted the hospitals to be under the state umbrella and not just the service. No, local councils, charities, and community societies built them. The state built the first NHS hospital in 1963 in Welwyn Garden City - even then the state did not build it, just paid for it, I believe Bovis built it. Prior to that, Bevan just stole all the pre-existing ones. |
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Post by mattbewilson on Jun 19, 2024 11:34:25 GMT
until PFI the state did build the hospitals, no? Wasn't that one of the big points of debate between Bevan and Herbert Morrison? Bevan wanted the hospitals to be under the state umbrella and not just the service. No, local councils, charities, and community societies built them. The state built the first NHS hospital in 1963 in Welwyn Garden City - even then the state did not build it, just paid for it, I believe Bovis built it. Prior to that, Bevan just stole all the pre-existing ones. Queen Elizabeth II? |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Jun 19, 2024 11:37:55 GMT
No, local councils, charities, and community societies built them. The state built the first NHS hospital in 1963 in Welwyn Garden City - even then the state did not build it, just paid for it, I believe Bovis built it. Prior to that, Bevan just stole all the pre-existing ones. Queen Elizabeth II? She didn’t build it, but was merely a hod carrier. |
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Post by matureleft on Jun 19, 2024 15:59:32 GMT
Indeed. And it’s that sort of compromise on which the NHS was founded. The state doesn’t build the hospitals, make the drugs and equipment or run the various ancillary services - pharmacies, dentists etc. Consultants can and do work privately. While it is a huge taxpayer-funded organisation it’s far from a state monolith. And the binding principles are the ones I’ve given, not that the state does or should do everything. until PFI the state did build the hospitals, no? Wasn't that one of the big points of debate between Bevan and Herbert Morrison? Bevan wanted the hospitals to be under the state umbrella and not just the service. Also re dentists, I still go to an NHS dentist. Tho it's been a year! I suppose it depends what you mean by build? PFI introduced a different funding model but the state never attempted to employ a workforce to build them but they were owned by the state when completed as opposed to at the end of a PFI contract. The foundation of the NHS, at a time of national penury, required compromise and focus on what was essential - the provision of a health service accessible to all. Do you mean that you use a dentist contracted to the NHS? They're not employed. They typically have a brief period where they have NHS patients up to a certain number. After that period elapses they are free to go private, and many do, having used taxpayer funds to establish a list (and pay for the set up of the practice). But there are a small number of NHS employed dentists normally mainly focused on special groups who are difficult to accommodate within a practice, or on emergency care - my son used one after an accident as a child. |
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right
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Post by right on Jun 19, 2024 17:51:24 GMT
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