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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jun 4, 2024 10:26:28 GMT
Since this thread is becoming a substitute for discussing the future of the right, I might as well say it reinforces my belief that they will be out of power for a generation.
I'm seeing people
- celebrate the coming purge of the Wets, as if decoupling a chunk of your coalition is ever helpful, and with no recognition that it is the likes of Hunt and Mordaunt who are comfortably the most popular of the Tories (as was Sunak when he was seen as a managerial technocrat Chancellor). That's without factoring in that they're the only ones capable of running a department.
- regarding Johnson's removal of half the party's talent to replace it with people solely qualified by loyalty to him as a good thing, except it didn't go far enough
- contrast Farage as a Chaos/Change agent with managerial politicians, at the precise point where Starmer is headed for the biggest majority in a century on a programme of ending the chaos (and not much else)
- banging on about how Farage speaks for ordinary people, when polls consistently put Reform and Conservative combined at less than Labour alone
- failing to note that the age at which people switch from left to conservative continues to rise, and on this trend the right wing core vote will drop another 4% or so (probably added directly to the left, albeit not necessarily Labour) by 2028-9
I know this is in "don't tell them, Pike" territory, but I'm confident none of them will take a blind bit of notice.
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Clacton
Jun 4, 2024 10:40:30 GMT
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jun 4, 2024 10:40:30 GMT
well maybe used reasoned arguments yourself instead of using silly phrases like “the so-called left” and wokies. You know that talking about woke/wokies is a substitute for reasoned argument, surely. But all sides do that. 'Fruit cakes, nut jobs, golf club cronies, uber Zionists, commies, tankies, quinoa and avocado toast classes, Metropolitan elite, Grauniad readers, Express and Mail reading classes, the Blob, the Lump, the uber woke and Vegans! We all know the underlying disparagement and contempt reserved by the user in each case. Some feel piercing hurts and other shrug it off or don't even notice. Childish up to a point? Yes. But those are all signifiers of a sterotype and there would be no cut through if there were not underlying observable traits. Many here may see me as a latter day Dennis Thatcher, propping up bars in golf clubs, gulping gin, whilst wearing a blazer and cavalry twill trousers? I have never worn a blazer since school; never played golf; have no cronies; and hardly ever drink gin. But none of that is the point. I am deemed to be thus and I am seen as thus. We all tend to do this and some like Dok do it in their very sleep. That's very sound, Carlton, but I don't think it undermines batman's point. |
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Post by rcronald on Jun 4, 2024 10:41:28 GMT
Since this thread is becoming a substitute for discussing the future of the right, I might as well say it reinforces my belief that they will be out of power for a generation. I'm seeing people - celebrate the coming purge of the Wets, as if decoupling a chunk of your coalition is ever helpful, and with no recognition that it is the likes of Hunt and Mordaunt who are comfortably the most popular of the Tories (as was Sunak when he was seen as a managerial technocrat Chancellor). That's without factoring in that they're the only ones capable of running a department. - regarding Johnson's removal of half the party's talent to replace it with people solely qualified by loyalty to him as a good thing, except it didn't go far enough - contrast Farage as a Chaos/Change agent with managerial politicians, at the precise point where Starmer is headed for the biggest majority in a century on a programme of ending the chaos (and not much else) - banging on about how Farage speaks for ordinary people, when polls consistently put Reform and Conservative combined at less than Labour alone - failing to note that the age at which people switch from left to conservative continues to rise, and on this trend the right wing core vote will drop another 4% or so (probably added directly to the left, albeit not necessarily Labour) by 2028-9 I know this is in "don't tell them, Pike" territory, but I'm confident none of them will take a blind bit of notice. I can assure you that most of the blue room is not happy with the incoming purge (we may want some of the wets gone, but definitely not all of them), and the collapse of the party even if we are angry with it. |
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Jun 4, 2024 10:42:59 GMT
Carswell has endorsed Farage.
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 4, 2024 10:43:50 GMT
Since this thread is becoming a substitute for discussing the future of the right, I might as well say it reinforces my belief that they will be out of power for a generation. I'm seeing people - celebrate the coming purge of the Wets, as if decoupling a chunk of your coalition is ever helpful, and with no recognition that it is the likes of Hunt and Mordaunt who are comfortably the most popular of the Tories (as was Sunak when he was seen as a managerial technocrat Chancellor). That's without factoring in that they're the only ones capable of running a department. - regarding Johnson's removal of half the party's talent to replace it with people solely qualified by loyalty to him as a good thing, except it didn't go far enough - contrast Farage as a Chaos/Change agent with managerial politicians, at the precise point where Starmer is headed for the biggest majority in a century on a programme of ending the chaos (and not much else) - banging on about how Farage speaks for ordinary people, when polls consistently put Reform and Conservative combined at less than Labour alone - failing to note that the age at which people switch from left to conservative continues to rise, and on this trend the right wing core vote will drop another 4% or so (probably added directly to the left, albeit not necessarily Labour) by 2028-9 I know this is in "don't tell them, Pike" territory, but I'm confident none of them will take a blind bit of notice. It is usually a major error to state 'out of power for a generation' in any circumstance. It is only 5-brief years since the Boris devastation of Labour. It did not take a generation to alter all that. Do you see Labour being so competent and assured and so well led that they will remain 'popular' for a whole generation? Really? You are going to have 'fun times' ahead. This is a very febrile era of politics with an electorate full of people seething with contrary resentments and even hatreds. Generation nothing old chap. All is to play for year-on-year! |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 4, 2024 10:44:40 GMT
But all sides do that. 'Fruit cakes, nut jobs, golf club cronies, uber Zionists, commies, tankies, quinoa and avocado toast classes, Metropolitan elite, Grauniad readers, Express and Mail reading classes, the Blob, the Lump, the uber woke and Vegans! We all know the underlying disparagement and contempt reserved by the user in each case. Some feel piercing hurts and other shrug it off or don't even notice. Childish up to a point? Yes. But those are all signifiers of a sterotype and there would be no cut through if there were not underlying observable traits. Many here may see me as a latter day Dennis Thatcher, propping up bars in golf clubs, gulping gin, whilst wearing a blazer and cavalry twill trousers? I have never worn a blazer since school; never played golf; have no cronies; and hardly ever drink gin. But none of that is the point. I am deemed to be thus and I am seen as thus. We all tend to do this and some like Dok do it in their very sleep. That's very sound, Carlton, but I don't think it undermines batman 's point. It undermines it completely and assuredly. |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 4, 2024 10:54:35 GMT
Since this thread is becoming a substitute for discussing the future of the right, I might as well say it reinforces my belief that they will be out of power for a generation. I'm seeing people - celebrate the coming purge of the Wets, as if decoupling a chunk of your coalition is ever helpful, and with no recognition that it is the likes of Hunt and Mordaunt who are comfortably the most popular of the Tories (as was Sunak when he was seen as a managerial technocrat Chancellor). That's without factoring in that they're the only ones capable of running a department. - regarding Johnson's removal of half the party's talent to replace it with people solely qualified by loyalty to him as a good thing, except it didn't go far enough - contrast Farage as a Chaos/Change agent with managerial politicians, at the precise point where Starmer is headed for the biggest majority in a century on a programme of ending the chaos (and not much else) - banging on about how Farage speaks for ordinary people, when polls consistently put Reform and Conservative combined at less than Labour alone - failing to note that the age at which people switch from left to conservative continues to rise, and on this trend the right wing core vote will drop another 4% or so (probably added directly to the left, albeit not necessarily Labour) by 2028-9 I know this is in "don't tell them, Pike" territory, but I'm confident none of them will take a blind bit of notice. I can assure you that most of the blue room is not happy with the incoming purge (we may want some of the wets gone, but definitely not all of them), and the collapse of the party even if we are angry with it. Let's have an indicative vote then, along the lines of Unhappy to see the intrusion of a Reform challenge or any reformation on the right Happy to see Reform aid a reformation on the Right Wish to see Reform facilitate a devastation of the Conservatives as justified punishment Happy to see the right bifurcate into two parties Saddened to see the Big Tent go and two or more separate parties emerge Do we now have different feelings on FPTP to facilitate our objectives |
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The Bishop
Labour
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 4, 2024 10:56:47 GMT
An alternative view from a focus group. Worryingly, much of that they say about Farage could be taken from MAGA-types in the US. Farage is seem as an alternative despite being nothing of the sort, he just cuts through. Overall, he is about as (un)popular as Corbyn. And just as with Jez the minority who support him often adore him, but the rest not so much. |
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right
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Post by right on Jun 4, 2024 10:57:53 GMT
well maybe used reasoned arguments yourself instead of using silly phrases like “the so-called left” and wokies. You know that talking about woke/wokies is a substitute for reasoned argument, surely. But all sides do that. 'Fruit cakes, nut jobs, golf club cronies, uber Zionists, commies, tankies, quinoa and avocado toast classes, Metropolitan elite, Grauniad readers, Express and Mail reading classes, the Blob, the Lump, the uber woke and Vegans! We all know the underlying disparagement and contempt reserved by the user in each case. Some feel piercing hurts and other shrug it off or don't even notice. Childish up to a point? Yes. But those are all signifiers of a sterotype and there would be no cut through if there were not underlying observable traits. Many here may see me as a latter day Dennis Thatcher, propping up bars in golf clubs, gulping gin, whilst wearing a blazer and cavalry twill trousers? I have never worn a blazer since school; never played golf; have no cronies; and hardly ever drink gin. But none of that is the point. I am deemed to be thus and I am seen as thus. We all tend to do this and some like Dok do it in their very sleep. Forces of anarchy, wreakers of law and order. Communists, Maoists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, vandals, hooligans, football supporters, namby-pamby probation officers, rapists, papists, papist rapists, Foreign surgeons – headshrinkers, who ought to be locked up, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue-sniffers, “Play For Today”, squatters, Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody’s, Chinese restaurants – why do you think Windsor Castle is ringed with Chinese restaurants? |
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Clacton
Jun 4, 2024 10:59:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by rcronald on Jun 4, 2024 10:59:56 GMT
I can assure you that most of the blue room is not happy with the incoming purge (we may want some of the wets gone, but definitely not all of them), and the collapse of the party even if we are angry with it. Let's have an indicative vote then, along the lines of Unhappy to see the intrusion of a Reform challenge or any reformation on the right Happy to see Reform aid a reformation on the Right Wish to see Reform facilitate a devastation of the Conservatives as justified punishment Happy to see the right bifurcate into two parties Saddened to see the Big Tent go and two or more separate parties emerge Do we now have different feelings on FPTP to facilitate our objectives I’m in the happy to see Reform aid in the reformation of the right, but not as the main party of the right category. The Tories deserve to lose, but the British people deserve an opposition from the right, especially one that is not 70% chav. |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 4, 2024 11:02:28 GMT
But all sides do that. 'Fruit cakes, nut jobs, golf club cronies, uber Zionists, commies, tankies, quinoa and avocado toast classes, Metropolitan elite, Grauniad readers, Express and Mail reading classes, the Blob, the Lump, the uber woke and Vegans! We all know the underlying disparagement and contempt reserved by the user in each case. Some feel piercing hurts and other shrug it off or don't even notice. Childish up to a point? Yes. But those are all signifiers of a sterotype and there would be no cut through if there were not underlying observable traits. Many here may see me as a latter day Dennis Thatcher, propping up bars in golf clubs, gulping gin, whilst wearing a blazer and cavalry twill trousers? I have never worn a blazer since school; never played golf; have no cronies; and hardly ever drink gin. But none of that is the point. I am deemed to be thus and I am seen as thus. We all tend to do this and some like Dok do it in their very sleep. Forces of anarchy, wreakers of law and order. Communists, Maoists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, vandals, hooligans, football supporters, namby-pamby probation officers, rapists, papists, papist rapists, Foreign surgeons – headshrinkers, who ought to be locked up, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue-sniffers, “Play For Today”, squatters, Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody’s, Chinese restaurants – why do you think Windsor Castle is ringed with Chinese restaurants? My dear chap, have a nice pot of Assam tea and think pure thoughts! |
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 4, 2024 11:02:56 GMT
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jun 4, 2024 11:07:20 GMT
Since this thread is becoming a substitute for discussing the future of the right, I might as well say it reinforces my belief that they will be out of power for a generation. I'm seeing people - celebrate the coming purge of the Wets, as if decoupling a chunk of your coalition is ever helpful, and with no recognition that it is the likes of Hunt and Mordaunt who are comfortably the most popular of the Tories (as was Sunak when he was seen as a managerial technocrat Chancellor). That's without factoring in that they're the only ones capable of running a department. - regarding Johnson's removal of half the party's talent to replace it with people solely qualified by loyalty to him as a good thing, except it didn't go far enough - contrast Farage as a Chaos/Change agent with managerial politicians, at the precise point where Starmer is headed for the biggest majority in a century on a programme of ending the chaos (and not much else) - banging on about how Farage speaks for ordinary people, when polls consistently put Reform and Conservative combined at less than Labour alone - failing to note that the age at which people switch from left to conservative continues to rise, and on this trend the right wing core vote will drop another 4% or so (probably added directly to the left, albeit not necessarily Labour) by 2028-9 I know this is in "don't tell them, Pike" territory, but I'm confident none of them will take a blind bit of notice. It is usually a major error to state 'out of power for a generation' in any circumstance. It is only 5-brief years since the Boris devastation of Labour. It did not take a generation to alter all that. Do you see Labour being so competent and assured and so well led that they will remain 'popular' for a whole generation? Really? You are going to have 'fun times' ahead. This is a very febrile era of politics with an electorate full of people seething with contrary resentments and even hatreds. Generation nothing old chap. All is to play for year-on-year! Much in that. I'll amend to: two terms, longer if they don't get their act together. |
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right
Conservative
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Post by right on Jun 4, 2024 11:08:44 GMT
Let's have an indicative vote then, along the lines of Unhappy to see the intrusion of a Reform challenge or any reformation on the right Happy to see Reform aid a reformation on the Right Wish to see Reform facilitate a devastation of the Conservatives as justified punishment Happy to see the right bifurcate into two parties Saddened to see the Big Tent go and two or more separate parties emerge Do we now have different feelings on FPTP to facilitate our objectives I’m in the happy to see Reform aid in the reformation of the right, but not as the main party of the right category. The Tories deserve to lose, but the British people deserve an opposition from the right, especially one that is not 70% chav. Reform could get a wide variety of support. Thugs, bully-boys, psychopaths, sacked policemen, security guards, sacked security guards, racialists, Paki-bashers, queer-bashers, Chink-bashers, anybody-bashers, rear Admirals, queer admirals, Vice Admirals, fascists, neo-fascists, crypto-fascists, loyalists, neo-loyalists, crypto-loyalists. (That's really not fair on Reform, apart from the security guards, just an opportunity to use that quote) |
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stb12
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Post by stb12 on Jun 4, 2024 11:11:08 GMT
Hi guys, could we migrate the more general reform/future of the right wing discussion to the Reform thread? I might move some posts but for now just to avoid it being pages and pages that doesn’t really discuss Clacton itself at all
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right
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Post by right on Jun 4, 2024 11:12:18 GMT
Hi guys, could we migrate the more general reform/future of the right wing discussion to the Reform thread? I might move some posts but for now just to avoid it being pages and pages that doesn’t really discuss Clacton itself at all Where does that leave the security guards and Rear Admirals who actually live in Clacton? |
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islington
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Post by islington on Jun 4, 2024 11:13:53 GMT
The idea that Farage is some kind of rebel against an elite is laughable. He is the elite. You're sounding more and more like a conspiracy theorist, rallying against "an elite" while fully supporting a globe trotting politician whose best friends include Viktor Orban and Donald Trump. You can keep your elites, and I'll support mainstream politicians. Ah, conspiracy theorist! Of course! Easier, I suppose, to resort to abuse than address the points raised. Like coronavirus. Like lockdowns. Like vaccine damage. Is questioning, thinking, discussing, open debate a conspiracy theory or just intelligence? Thin stuff. The 'elites' as you call them are, incidentally, yours not mine. You and the 'mainstream politicians,support them. Hence you can't stand them being questioned. It's called democracy Interesting that you should mention these issues - you may be confusing Farage with RFK Jr.
If Farage has gone all anti-vac, then I haven't noticed (although I admit I don't pore over every word he utters).
One of his strengths, at this stage of the campaign, is that people can project their own priorities onto him. If the Tories are wise (a big 'if') they will seek to pin him down on policy points. How precisely is he going to reduce net migration to zero? Which specific categories of legal migrant is he going to exclude? How exactly is he going to stop small boats? If Farage and other Reform candidates can be backed into a corner where they have to answer questions like this, they will find it very difficult to avoid saying things that will repel more voters than they attract. (Actually, probably the best tactic would be to apply pressure on these issues not to Farage himself, who is highly adept at bluster and evasion, but to less-experienced Reform candidates elsewhere. And as soon as one of them says something bonkers, Farage can then be challenged either to endorse this position or to disavow the candidate.
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right
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Post by right on Jun 4, 2024 11:15:48 GMT
Carswell has endorsed Farage. There's some really good advice in there actually, although I can't see Farage having the temperament to go local. Carswell for all his faults clearly loved Clacton and Farage may get to that point, but there's a good chance he won't and he will only have four weeks to do it. |
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islington
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Post by islington on Jun 4, 2024 11:19:36 GMT
I’m in the happy to see Reform aid in the reformation of the right, but not as the main party of the right category. The Tories deserve to lose, but the British people deserve an opposition from the right, especially one that is not 70% chav. Reform could get a wide variety of support. Thugs, bully-boys, psychopaths, sacked policemen, security guards, sacked security guards, racialists, Paki-bashers, queer-bashers, Chink-bashers, anybody-bashers, rear Admirals, queer admirals, Vice Admirals, fascists, neo-fascists, crypto-fascists, loyalists, neo-loyalists, crypto-loyalists. (That's really not fair on Reform, apart from the security guards, just an opportunity to use that quote) You mean this quote?
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right
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Post by right on Jun 4, 2024 11:23:24 GMT
Reform could get a wide variety of support. Thugs, bully-boys, psychopaths, sacked policemen, security guards, sacked security guards, racialists, Paki-bashers, queer-bashers, Chink-bashers, anybody-bashers, rear Admirals, queer admirals, Vice Admirals, fascists, neo-fascists, crypto-fascists, loyalists, neo-loyalists, crypto-loyalists. (That's really not fair on Reform, apart from the security guards, just an opportunity to use that quote) You mean this quote?
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