J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,449
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 23, 2024 13:45:18 GMT
From another blog I have picked up this comment from a Labour activist in Clacton - (snip) It's daft. First, very few people help with Colchester. Its too far. And Clacton, probably a small party, helps local members - even though its not a Labour banker. The candidate might do very little, but given its Farage, obviously Labour have something to help. The donation should be given to Clacton - if its campaigning, its obvious.
It's similar to demands here that we pour all our resources into Harrogate.
It's a one-hour bus journey to the train station. It's then an hour to York, and an hour to Harrogate, then I don't know how long from Harrogate Station to where-ever the LD office is. So call it four hours before I even get to a letterbox. And then I have to turn around and spend four hours getting home.
Some people just do. not. understand geography.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,449
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 23, 2024 13:47:45 GMT
There are two followup.from the same person - The original comment appeared on Friday 21st June. Then yesterday 22nd June 'And the good news this morning is that Jovan has decided to disobey orders and is returning to Clacton to continue the campaign whatever his employers say.' Aren't employers legally required to let people have unpaid time off work for elections? And his employers interfering is surely a brech of electoral intimidation laws.
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 23, 2024 14:03:46 GMT
There are two followup.from the same person - The original comment appeared on Friday 21st June. Then yesterday 22nd June 'And the good news this morning is that Jovan has decided to disobey orders and is returning to Clacton to continue the campaign whatever his employers say.' Aren't employers legally required to let people have unpaid time off work for elections? And his employers interfering is surely a brech of electoral intimidation laws. I don't think they are, no. It would be a negotiation around unpaid leave in most cases?
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 23, 2024 14:12:14 GMT
It's daft. First, very few people help with Colchester. Its too far. And Clacton, probably a small party, helps local members - even though its not a Labour banker. The candidate might do very little, but given its Farage, obviously Labour have something to help. The donation should be given to Clacton - if its campaigning, its obvious. It's similar to demands here that we pour all our resources into Harrogate. It's a one-hour bus journey to the train station. It's then an hour to York, and an hour to Harrogate, then I don't know how long from Harrogate Station to where-ever the LD office is. So call it four hours before I even get to a letterbox. And then I have to turn around and spend four hours getting home. Some people just do. not. understand geography.
I assume there would be activists where you are who will be going there by car and you could get a lift with them. I dare say you weren't the only recipient of the email. It's emninently sensible of them to make this request and those than can go will go and those that can't won't. I wish more of our UKIP activists had gone to Thurrock in 2015 instead of fucking around in Hertfordshire. Indeed I wish the regional party had 'forced' them to - they should have told Patrick O'Flynn he needed to go and help down there and stop asking activists to go and waste their time in fucking Cambridge.
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,233
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Post by maxque on Jun 23, 2024 15:07:07 GMT
How to turn off people from politics. There's a chance to fight Farage on the doorsteps and really learn at the front line. I'd dig my heels in. Indeed. It may be that people are enthusiastic right from the off to go further afield, but if not the 'easier' experience of doing so locally may mean that they are willing to do in the future.
In the 2015 election the organiser from Labour HQ didn't want us to enter polling station data as 'we didn't have the time'. I told him to have another cup of tea and a fag, leave us alone and we'd have it done in fifteen minutes. He was very, very, stressed.
Yet another proof central HQ of parties should have few staff and money.
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 23, 2024 15:53:41 GMT
Labour is going to have a landslide, so telling members to campaign in Sunak's constituency rather than their own safe one, makes sense to me, as does stopping support in foregone constituencies.
It maybe Labour centrally sees Clacton as a write off now Nigel Farage is the candidate, so again it makes sense to ask memebr to campaign elsewhere. Local members might not like it, especially if they don't see it as a write off, but that doesn't mean their isn't some strategic sense in what abour nationally is asking them to do.
This story is really a storm in a teacup type story, great for spoon fed lazy journalists, but irrelevent to the reality of the election.
I see these matters as Party HQ being insufferably high-handed and treating private citizen volunteers as 'staff' to be directed at their will. There is nothing new about this and the Conservative party moved over to it well into the second half of the 20thC. I have been to a number of such meetings in Maidstone and Ashford and told the visiting 'dignitaries' in no uncertain terms (some of you know my style and can imagine the graphic language) just what to do with their plans and themselves and that I for one would stay here in my patch with my friends and my MP having a good time whilst ensuring that he was safe forever and the majority was maximized. Of course the redeployment can make good sense if explained patiently and with courtesy and the mutual aid recipient wants us, likes us and spoils us. So the regional campaign secretary was astonished when I offered to ask the meeting (at Maidstone) to help at Rochester and Chatham having a few years back been vociferous in opposing help to Dartford. After speaking for 5-minutes and reminding everyone what we all thought of Annie Carr (the Member for Hanoi) we had more volunteers than they could take. It is who does the asking and the manner of the appeal that is everything.
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 23, 2024 16:07:38 GMT
There are two followup.from the same person - The original comment appeared on Friday 21st June. Then yesterday 22nd June 'And the good news this morning is that Jovan has decided to disobey orders and is returning to Clacton to continue the campaign whatever his employers say.' And today we have this- 'Just heard from our campaign manager: "Jovan has changed his mind about coming back since yesterday due to even further pressure being applied to him." He is a paid party hack it seems and as such he should do as he is told by his employers like the rest of us do/did. He has no connection and no emotional ties as a parachutist. It is the small band of party loyalists who should put two fingers up to the regional guys and tell them they are staying put, bonding, and growing the party locally because that makes sense to them and it is what THEY want to do.
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Post by timrollpickering on Jun 23, 2024 16:07:48 GMT
I wish more of our UKIP activists had gone to Thurrock in 2015 instead of fucking around in Hertfordshire. Given comments about Ukip activists of the era on various threads, might it not have been to the Thurrock campaign's advantage for some of them to be in Hertfordshire?
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right
Conservative
Posts: 18,388
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Clacton
Jun 23, 2024 16:32:26 GMT
via mobile
Post by right on Jun 23, 2024 16:32:26 GMT
There are two followup.from the same person - The original comment appeared on Friday 21st June. Then yesterday 22nd June 'And the good news this morning is that Jovan has decided to disobey orders and is returning to Clacton to continue the campaign whatever his employers say.' And today we have this- 'Just heard from our campaign manager: "Jovan has changed his mind about coming back since yesterday due to even further pressure being applied to him." How to turn off people from politics. There's a chance to fight Farage on the doorsteps and really learn at the front line. I'd dig my heels in. If Labour really was wanted to fight Farage (and I suspect they find him too useful) they'd admit they couldn't win Clacton and that Watling was the only hope of decapitating Reform Splitting the anti Farage vote is the biggest contribution they can make in this seat.
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Jun 23, 2024 18:38:18 GMT
There are two followup.from the same person - The original comment appeared on Friday 21st June. Then yesterday 22nd June 'And the good news this morning is that Jovan has decided to disobey orders and is returning to Clacton to continue the campaign whatever his employers say.' And today we have this- 'Just heard from our campaign manager: "Jovan has changed his mind about coming back since yesterday due to even further pressure being applied to him." How to turn off people from politics. There's a chance to fight Farage on the doorsteps and really learn at the front line. I'd dig my heels in. You're not a fully trained Liberal Democrat campaigner yet, you still have a rebellious localist streak.
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Clacton
Jun 23, 2024 18:42:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by Ron Swanson on Jun 23, 2024 18:42:48 GMT
I wish more of our UKIP activists had gone to Thurrock in 2015 instead of fucking around in Hertfordshire. Given comments about Ukip activists of the era on various threads, might it not have been to the Thurrock campaign's advantage for some of them to be in Hertfordshire? The one who was video’d trying to force entry into a woman’s home was my fave. I understand that he had a condition that caused him to urinate a lot but I’d sooner wet myself than do it in public and then kick off with the owner of the house who’d caught me at it.
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 23, 2024 18:45:03 GMT
How to turn off people from politics. There's a chance to fight Farage on the doorsteps and really learn at the front line. I'd dig my heels in. You're not a fully trained Liberal Democrat campaigner yet, you still have a rebellious localist streak. "Give me a bus garage and a pint of dark mild or give me death!"
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Jun 23, 2024 18:52:05 GMT
How to turn off people from politics. There's a chance to fight Farage on the doorsteps and really learn at the front line. I'd dig my heels in. You're not a fully trained Liberal Democrat campaigner yet, you still have a rebellious localist streak. I finished a three hour leafleting run today by talking to the organiser about internal ward boundaries, how much more LD do you want me to be!
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,449
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 23, 2024 20:30:24 GMT
It's similar to demands here that we pour all our resources into Harrogate. It's a one-hour bus journey to the train station. It's then an hour to York, and an hour to Harrogate, then I don't know how long from Harrogate Station to where-ever the LD office is. So call it four hours before I even get to a letterbox. And then I have to turn around and spend four hours getting home. Some people just do. not. understand geography.
I assume there would be activists where you are who will be going there by car and you could get a lift with them. I dare say you weren't the only recipient of the email. It's emninently sensible of them to make this request and those than can go will go and those that can't won't. I wish more of our UKIP activists had gone to Thurrock in 2015 instead of fucking around in Hertfordshire. Indeed I wish the regional party had 'forced' them to - they should have told Patrick O'Flynn he needed to go and help down there and stop asking activists to go and waste their time in fucking Cambridge. I don't think it's any secret that where I am I am "the activists". Even with a car it's getting to almost two hours to get to Harrogate.
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Jun 24, 2024 8:29:39 GMT
I assume there would be activists where you are who will be going there by car and you could get a lift with them. I dare say you weren't the only recipient of the email. It's emninently sensible of them to make this request and those than can go will go and those that can't won't. I wish more of our UKIP activists had gone to Thurrock in 2015 instead of fucking around in Hertfordshire. Indeed I wish the regional party had 'forced' them to - they should have told Patrick O'Flynn he needed to go and help down there and stop asking activists to go and waste their time in fucking Cambridge. I don't think it's any secret that where I am I am "the activists". Even with a car it's getting to almost two hours to get to Harrogate. Presumably the e-mail was sent to everyone in the region who was on an e-mail list. That they did not go through the list and remove people who they knew were unlikely to be able to get that was not some massive slight against you or a lack of understanding of geography.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,449
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 24, 2024 12:12:57 GMT
I don't think it's any secret that where I am I am "the activists". Even with a car it's getting to almost two hours to get to Harrogate. Presumably the e-mail was sent to everyone in the region who was on an e-mail list. That they did not go through the list and remove people who they knew were unlikely to be able to get that was not some massive slight against you or a lack of understanding of geography. Did I mention emails? I get verbal exhorations for "all our activists" to decamp to remote places and not "waste time working local areas".
The alternative to putting out leaflets in Whitby is not putting out leaflets somewhere else, it's not putting out *any* leaflets. At least with the GE the Royal Mail are putting out the leaflet.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,319
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 24, 2024 14:45:24 GMT
This feels like the Fall of France for the Tories in Essex - far worse than Carswell's win for UKIP in 2015. Doesn't feel like 1997 though. No sea of Labour posters and no enthusiasm. People are just sick and tired of the Conservatives. 1997 really has been retconned by far too many people tbh. Polling during that election campaign shows - guess what! - that most people were motivated more by desperately wanting to be rid of the Tories, rather than any wild enthusiasm for Labour. Those of us who were on the ground then can confirm this too. Some people who push this line actually turn out to be (mis)remembering Blair's sky high ratings *after* he won the election.
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Post by adlai52 on Jun 25, 2024 7:57:03 GMT
Doesn't feel like 1997 though. No sea of Labour posters and no enthusiasm. People are just sick and tired of the Conservatives. 1997 really has been retconned by far too many people tbh. Polling during that election campaign shows - guess what! - that most people were motivated more by desperately wanting to be rid of the Tories, rather than any wild enthusiasm for Labour. Those of us who were on the ground then can confirm this too. Some people who push this line actually turn out to be (mis)remembering Blair's sky high ratings *after* he won the election. Also true of the Thatcher years - huge parts of the Right's relationship with Thatcher/Thatcherism are a total retcon of what actually took place.
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Jun 25, 2024 8:01:37 GMT
"People cherry picking the best bits from the past" is how we ended up with Brexit.
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Jun 25, 2024 8:10:09 GMT
"People cherry picking the best bits from the past" is how we ended up with Brexit. That statement makes no sense. People remembering the good of the past more than the bad, that is true. That this fed into the Brexit decision that is also true. To say it is how we ended up with Brexit is however false. A lot of other factors came together with rosier memories, and that ultimately culminated with the Brexit decision, via a referendum.
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