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Post by carlton43 on Jun 22, 2024 12:56:10 GMT
My main problem isn’t him holding the views that he holds, it’s that he was stupid enough to openly voice them online under his real name. Young people aren't very good at thinking about the future, but the various pile ons do come to their attention, and I suspect some of them will be more cautious now than the previous generation. Like many people here, although basically 'left wing' I deplore the focus on stuff young people may have incautiously put into the public domain many years ago. What's important is what they think now. A racist tweet 10 years ago is irrelevant unless they are a serial offender. Unless they are a male, white, right-wing activist when you would be all over them like a rash and using this sort of material freely and glorying in it and luxuriating with glee.
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Clacton
Jun 22, 2024 12:56:29 GMT
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Post by rcronald on Jun 22, 2024 12:56:29 GMT
My main problem isn’t him holding the views that he holds, it’s that he was stupid enough to openly voice them online under his real name. Young people aren't very good at thinking about the future, but the various pile ons do come to their attention, and I suspect some of them will be more cautious now than the previous generation. Like many people here, although basically 'left wing' I deplore the focus on stuff young people may have incautiously put into the public domain many years ago. What's important is what they think now. A racist tweet 10 years ago is irrelevant unless they are a serial offender. I don’t think that he should be cancelled or anything, I just think that he’s probably not mature enough and should have perhaps waited a couple of extra years. Btw, I’m 28 years old and never posted anything even close to controversial (or even political) on my non-anonymous social media accounts. So it’s not that all politically engaged/aware young people post very stupid things on their social media accounts.
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Post by John Chanin on Jun 22, 2024 12:59:19 GMT
Young people aren't very good at thinking about the future, but the various pile ons do come to their attention, and I suspect some of them will be more cautious now than the previous generation. Like many people here, although basically 'left wing' I deplore the focus on stuff young people may have incautiously put into the public domain many years ago. What's important is what they think now. A racist tweet 10 years ago is irrelevant unless they are a serial offender. Unless they are a male, white, right-wing activist when you would be all over them like a rash and using this sort of material freely and glorying in it and luxuriating with glee. Your prejudice is showing. Like Merseymike I am on the record here.
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mboy
Liberal
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Clacton
Jun 22, 2024 15:43:18 GMT
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Post by mboy on Jun 22, 2024 15:43:18 GMT
Since Farage's comments about the West "provoking" the Russian invasion, it's been notable that every Twitter thread by or about Farage is now dominated by the pro-Kremlin bot swarms. Now Farage has pinned his colours to the Putin mast, expect to see a *lot* of international effort (i.e. Russian/Chinese state affiliated actors) to push both Reform and this Kremlin narrative as a unified package, in much the same way as the GOP and anti-Ukraine sentiment got fused last year.
Before this week, anti-Ukraine sentiment was a very niche position in the UK and not a major part of the Reform policy platform either. But there is a huge opportunity for the Kremlin/CCP axis here now, and with so much at stake I expect them to try *very* hard to co-opt the populist position on the UK right as they have successfully in USA/France/Germany etc.
It will be a shame if they pull it off. As people will know I have long had some sympathy with the Faragist suggestion that the West's failure to block - and expel - dangerous anti-Western immigration is incredibly corrosive to our society. But if that suggestion is going to come as a package along with support for global fascist tyrants hell-bent on military conquest, then I will do everything I can to see that whole package in the dustbin of history. If Farage wants to be a Chamberlain instead of a Churchill that's his loss. If the Tories have any sense (hint: they don't) they would hammer this home relentlessly till July 4th.
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Clacton
Jun 22, 2024 16:56:02 GMT
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Post by Ron Swanson on Jun 22, 2024 16:56:02 GMT
I wonder how unpopular Putin is though amongst older, mostly right wing, Brexit supporting people?
You’d expect a ‘don’t let Nigel be Putin’s man in Westminster’ attack line, and in most places it would probably work.
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Post by matureleft on Jun 22, 2024 17:08:12 GMT
I wonder how unpopular Putin is though amongst older, mostly right wing, Brexit supporting people? You’d expect a ‘don’t let Nigel be Putin’s man in Westminster’ attack line, and in most places it would probably work. Hmm. If my dad was anything to go by Putin had his UK fans (albeit before the invasion of Ukraine). He saw Putin as a Russian nationalist and, since he liked nationalism generally, that was OK by him. He was given a medal by the Russian embassy for his brief Arctic convoy service (he was mostly in the Far East) in a clever little gesture Putin pulled in 2016ish when the UK was objecting to the occupation of Crimea.
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Post by rcronald on Jun 22, 2024 17:12:49 GMT
I wonder how unpopular Putin is though amongst older, mostly right wing, Brexit supporting people? You’d expect a ‘don’t let Nigel be Putin’s man in Westminster’ attack line, and in most places it would probably work. The real question is how intense is Putin’s unpopularity among potential Reform voters, and the answer is not very high.
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Post by AlltheGoodUsernamesAreTaken on Jun 22, 2024 19:40:26 GMT
I wonder how unpopular Putin is though amongst older, mostly right wing, Brexit supporting people? You’d expect a ‘don’t let Nigel be Putin’s man in Westminster’ attack line, and in most places it would probably work. The real question is how intense is Putin’s unpopularity among potential Reform voters, and the answer is not very high. A sad indictment of the lack of basic knowledge of World affairs amongst mostly poorly educated swathes of the population. Easily led and easily swayed by anyone who can speak to them in basic Sun like tabloid language with a grain of truth and lots of misinformation. If you ever want a revolution in this country amongst such people just ban bingo, car boot sales or soap operas.
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Post by Ron Swanson on Jun 22, 2024 19:59:05 GMT
I wonder how unpopular Putin is though amongst older, mostly right wing, Brexit supporting people? You’d expect a ‘don’t let Nigel be Putin’s man in Westminster’ attack line, and in most places it would probably work. The real question is how intense is Putin’s unpopularity among potential Reform voters, and the answer is not very high. I'd say it is fairly low, certainly a 'significant minority' at most. I'd say more people would be pro than anti, with more than either in the 'don't know/undecided' camp. If someone started chucking around anti Putin literature they could put Farage onto the 'local issues' track, which he isn't particularly good at, I'd reckon.
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right
Conservative
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Post by right on Jun 22, 2024 20:17:21 GMT
I wonder how unpopular Putin is though amongst older, mostly right wing, Brexit supporting people? You’d expect a ‘don’t let Nigel be Putin’s man in Westminster’ attack line, and in most places it would probably work. Hmm. If my dad was anything to go by Putin had his UK fans (albeit before the invasion of Ukraine). He saw Putin as a Russian nationalist and, since he liked nationalism generally, that was OK by him. He was given a medal by the Russian embassy for his brief Arctic convoy service (he was mostly in the Far East) in a clever little gesture Putin pulled in 2016ish when the UK was objecting to the occupation of Crimea. There's a world of difference between being enthusiastic for Putin and not thinking Ukraine is much of our business. Confusing the two seems to be a constant problem for the pro escalation crowd. Part of this is a debating trick, but mainly it seems to be an inability to grasp complexity.
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Clacton
Jun 22, 2024 20:23:07 GMT
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 22, 2024 20:23:07 GMT
I wonder how unpopular Putin is though amongst older, mostly right wing, Brexit supporting people? You’d expect a ‘don’t let Nigel be Putin’s man in Westminster’ attack line, and in most places it would probably work. The real question is how intense is Putin’s unpopularity among potential Reform voters, and the answer is not very high. The European elections have just shown us in several countries that pro-Putin stands can attract votes. Both left and right. There's no reason why it shouldn't be the case in the UK. And in one of those strange moments that life throws up, Rod Stewart made a comment against Putin the other day in Leipzig and was roundly booed by part of the crowd.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Jun 22, 2024 23:12:10 GMT
The real question is how intense is Putin’s unpopularity among potential Reform voters, and the answer is not very high. The European elections have just shown us in several countries that pro-Putin stands can attract votes. Both left and right. There's no reason why it shouldn't be the case in the UK. And in one of those strange moments that life throws up, Rod Stewart made a comment against Putin the other day in Leipzig and was roundly booed by part of the crowd. Were the SED on a trip to the concert?
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nyx
Non-Aligned
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Post by nyx on Jun 22, 2024 23:42:53 GMT
It's fascinating to see people complain about political correctness until something offends them. I have certainly made a stronger remarks about white people to my friends than this candidate has, and I know that acquaintances of mine have made comments about people like me. Sometimes I even overhear those comments and find that they are funny. If there is anyone here who has not made a remark to his friends that he would not like repeated in public, probably that is because he has no friends. My personal view is that I do not want to live in a society where all the things we say are monitored by the thought police. Maybe others here sincerely disagree with that, or maybe they are only pretending to in order to take shots at a Labour candidate. I can't say. I agree with most of this but I would point out that tweeting something is not 'making a remark to friends that he would not like repeated in public'. Tweeting it is literally repeating it in public. I would wish no consequences for this individual in terms of career, and certainly no legal repersussions for his comments. I think however that it's perfectly reasonable and rational for white voters in this constituency to decline to vote for a candidate who is avowedly hostile to them and their interests, and it is perfectly reasonable for his political opponents to draw their attention to that. I'd also observe, that if I had a problem with brown people, such that I might want to make 'strong remarks' about them, I should probably not choose to live in Bangladesh.. Twitter may be public but if you're not a public figure, it can be perceived as just being somewhere to chat with your friends, and I doubt every young person will be carefully considering the wording of everything they say on the off chance they become a politician in the future. I've got American friends who will casually joke about negative stereotypes of Brits when talking to me and I'll make similar jokes about Americans back to them. When chatting with friends who are Asian, I'll join in with joking about Asian parents. This isn't the sort of thing you'd do publicly as a politician, of course. But to claim that this person making blunt joking comments with friends is a sign that as a politician, he will work against the interests of white voters is patently absurd.
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Jun 23, 2024 7:39:12 GMT
Musk has recently made "likes" private. This will doubtlessly help politicians who want to agree with questionable views without wanting to get caught.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2024 7:46:31 GMT
Musk has recently made "likes" private. This will doubtlessly help politicians who want to agree with questionable views without wanting to get caught. Someone should probably tell Faiza Shaheen
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mboy
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Clacton
Jun 23, 2024 8:12:47 GMT
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Post by mboy on Jun 23, 2024 8:12:47 GMT
Musk has recently made "likes" private. This will doubtlessly help politicians who want to agree with questionable views without wanting to get caught. "Caught". "Questionable views". Yes, you are.
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Post by willpower3 on Jun 23, 2024 8:24:13 GMT
My main problem isn’t him holding the views that he holds, it’s that he was stupid enough to openly voice them online under his real name. Young people aren't very good at thinking about the future, but the various pile ons do come to their attention, and I suspect some of them will be more cautious now than the previous generation. Like many people here, although basically 'left wing' I deplore the focus on stuff young people may have incautiously put into the public domain many years ago. What's important is what they think now. A racist tweet 10 years ago is irrelevant unless they are a serial offender. 'Caution' (particularly when it comes to the outright fascists, racists etc) would probably involve the purchase of a VPN subscription.
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Clacton
Jun 23, 2024 10:21:10 GMT
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mboy likes this
Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Jun 23, 2024 10:21:10 GMT
Musk has recently made "likes" private. This will doubtlessly help politicians who want to agree with questionable views without wanting to get caught. Thanks for that trans rights Beria. Mercifully, people are now able to like what views they wish without curtain creeping mini Torquemadas, such as yourself, ruining their lives for believing in hyper controversial heresies, such as the apparently insane idea that females exist.
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Jun 23, 2024 10:34:33 GMT
Musk has recently made "likes" private. This will doubtlessly help politicians who want to agree with questionable views without wanting to get caught. Thanks for that trans rights Beria. Mercifully, people are now able to like what views they wish without curtain creeping mini Torquemadas, such as yourself, ruining their lives for believing in hyper controversial heresies, such as the apparently insane idea that females exist. 🙄
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graham
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Post by graham on Jun 23, 2024 11:42:14 GMT
From another blog I have picked up this comment from a Labour activist in Clacton - 'So, I advise you all to sit yourself down comfortably with a strong drink - alcoholic, tea, coffee, whatever you fancy - this could take some time and when I've finished you probably won't believe it anyway! Our candidate in Clacton, Jovan Owusu-Nepaul, is a Labour Party employee. When he was parachuted into Clacton, he had to sign an agreement that he would not campaign in Clacton but would campaign in Colchester instead. Of course, he has been campaigning in Clacton along with Clacton CLP members, because we all feel it is important we defeat Farage and we have got to the stage where our canvassing, a number of local opinion polls and tactical voting sites indicate we are in second place and if people want to vote to keep Farage out, they should vote Labour. Yesterday, Jovan and our CLP were told to stop all campaigning in Clacton; we would get no further support, we have been blocked out from Organise and Contact Creator and other sanctions have been taken. Jovan has been told to go to the West Midlands (where he lives) to campaign there. As far as our members are concerned we were told we HAVE to go to Colchester and no further activity in Clacton will be supported or financed. None of our members want to go to Colchester and will refuse, partly because we have been told by the Colchester CLP that they don't need us as they have enough of their own members and supporters and their canvassing shows they are well in front anyway. Talking of finance, we were offered an amazing £10,000 donation to support Jovan. Our Regional Office have told us to take the money but not use it on campaigning. I can't help think this is actually fraud. While writing this, someone has sent me a link to a Guardian article just published that says this sort of thing is happening all over the country in Labour constituencies where candidates and members have dared to campaign in their own constituency and not gone where directed. I'm sorry. I have no words (apart from the ones above!)'
How interested would BBC East and ITV Anglia be in this story?
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