nyx
Non-Aligned
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Post by nyx on Jun 21, 2024 0:34:49 GMT
I've deleted much of what I wanted to say but this prompts me to try again. He's a young, ambitious, obviously confident person of colour, of whom British politics isn't exactly overflowing. When he was much younger, he used a turn of phrase in a cocky, boastful way, as all young people tend to do. This forum is on the whole white and "of an age". We've absolutely no idea about the lives experience of British people of colour, and to pass judgement on his entire being on the back of one turn off phrase is exactly the kind of "tears" he's referencing. Little wonder young people feel alienated from politics when a grand jury of retired generals can judge on a single turn of phrase. We will never be young again, maybe that's the real driver of the reactions here. I'm not looking this in the lens of his race specifically, but as a matter of general human decency. There has been more attention in this thread on an offhand comment that someone made years ago than his actual policies, views, etc. I'm quite sure most people will have, at some point, made some sort of off-colour comment to friends that they wouldn't make publicly as a public figure- it is unfortunate that for younger people nowadays with websites like Twitter being a common medium of communication, things remain on the public record in a way that they would not if they were just said in a pub. It seems that many people seek someone to be entirely perfect in what they say for their entire life, which is an absurd standard. His statement on it- that it was a casual comment he would not have said as a public figure- is fine. Politicians shouldn't be expected to apologize for private comments they made years ago unless they're unusually awful and with continuing relevance. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 21, 2024 5:35:08 GMT
There definitely needs to be less of this archaeology of social media going on, that's for sure.
But this idea that you can say what you like and not be criticised for it because of personal circumstances or some sort of perceived grievance - no.
Prejudices don't become valid because you think they're justified.
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right
Conservative
Posts: 18,694
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Clacton
Jun 21, 2024 6:29:00 GMT
via mobile
mboy likes this
Post by right on Jun 21, 2024 6:29:00 GMT
Cancel culture over things like this is ridiculous. I'm sure many people have at some point made some dodgy joke about some group of people, including Farage. It's really not a big deal, we're all human. I've deleted much of what I wanted to say but this prompts me to try again. He's a young, ambitious, obviously confident person of colour, of whom British politics isn't exactly overflowing. When he was much younger, he used a turn of phrase in a cocky, boastful way, as all young people tend to do. This forum is on the whole white and "of an age". We've absolutely no idea about the lives experience of British people of colour, and to pass judgement on his entire being on the back of one turn off phrase is exactly the kind of "tears" he's referencing. Little wonder young people feel alienated from politics when a grand jury of retired generals can judge on a single turn of phrase. We will never be young again, maybe that's the real driver of the reactions here. I'm highly sympathetic to the idea that what you say on social media when you're young and still developing should not hold you back. But the content of what he said was racist and should be acknowledged as such. Fully accept that he can't say "I not so long ago said racist things against white people but not sure I fully believed them then and certainly don't believe them now. But I've grown up now. Vote for me." But we should have an atmosphere that allows for that because otherwise we're going to be stuck with the most dreadful mediocrities in two decades time. |
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Clacton
Jun 21, 2024 6:41:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by observer on Jun 21, 2024 6:41:15 GMT
Cancel culture over things like this is ridiculous. I'm sure many people have at some point made some dodgy joke about some group of people, including Farage. It's really not a big deal, we're all human. I've deleted much of what I wanted to say but this prompts me to try again. He's a young, ambitious, obviously confident person of colour, of whom British politics isn't exactly overflowing. When he was much younger, he used a turn of phrase in a cocky, boastful way, as all young people tend to do. This forum is on the whole white and "of an age". We've absolutely no idea about the lives experience of British people of colour, and to pass judgement on his entire being on the back of one turn off phrase is exactly the kind of "tears" he's referencing. Little wonder young people feel alienated from politics when a grand jury of retired generals can judge on a single turn of phrase. We will never be young again, maybe that's the real driver of the reactions here. I have never made a racist statement because I don't have those thoughts in my head. Anyone who does should not receive any votes although, yes, they are free to hold and express those thoughts. It doesn't matter whether he is young or old. Completely irrelevant...a person who thinks along racial lines is a bit primitive to be honest. I hope he reflects on his beliefs |
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Jun 21, 2024 11:00:48 GMT
The idea that Farage will be ignored is just laughable. |
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Post by aargauer on Jun 21, 2024 11:06:41 GMT
Crikey. He sounds like he likes himself a lot. Labour are lucky they didn't have some dull Starmtrooper just grinding the gears to get a winnable seat next time. They ain't going to win but they do have someone to cheer the troops. As long as some of his studenty sayings don't get national cut through, which is highly unlikely. Some absolute lunatics are going to win though. There's plenty of seats not that dissimilar to Clacton where labour are going to win with not very vetted canddiates. |
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Post by aargauer on Jun 21, 2024 11:08:53 GMT
Cancel culture over things like this is ridiculous. I'm sure many people have at some point made some dodgy joke about some group of people, including Farage. It's really not a big deal, we're all human. I've deleted much of what I wanted to say but this prompts me to try again. He's a young, ambitious, obviously confident person of colour, of whom British politics isn't exactly overflowing. When he was much younger, he used a turn of phrase in a cocky, boastful way, as all young people tend to do. This forum is on the whole white and "of an age". We've absolutely no idea about the lives experience of British people of colour, and to pass judgement on his entire being on the back of one turn off phrase is exactly the kind of "tears" he's referencing. Little wonder young people feel alienated from politics when a grand jury of retired generals can judge on a single turn of phrase. We will never be young again, maybe that's the real driver of the reactions here. I can forgive people for nonsense said when they were young, but this person is still obviously young and pretty silly. |
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Clacton
Jun 21, 2024 14:28:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by Ron Swanson on Jun 21, 2024 14:28:24 GMT
Labour are lucky they didn't have some dull Starmtrooper just grinding the gears to get a winnable seat next time. They ain't going to win but they do have someone to cheer the troops. As long as some of his studenty sayings don't get national cut through, which is highly unlikely. Some absolute lunatics are going to win though. There's plenty of seats not that dissimilar to Clacton where labour are going to win with not very vetted canddiates. Really, parties ought to have people vetted and approved well in advance… sufficient numbers so as to not have to draft in folk with a history of misdemeanours. Then there are other factors like people who make it on to lists for no obvious reason - Gullis, Clarke-Smith… or Benton who was caught trying to lobby, or whatever it was. When you are expected to win by a huge margin, inevitably there’ll be some crankies slip through… but why do we (collectively) not learn. Really, pay for MPs ought to rise significantly - so you have a chance of attracting a better calibre of candidate to want to do the job. Those who abuse (and I mean abuse - not criticise) should be punished too. Of course, as mentioned above, the digging up of social media posts 15 years ago that are sometimes bad, sometimes crass, and often just misplaced turns of phrase is a turn off too. |
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 23,560
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Post by mboy on Jun 21, 2024 16:34:34 GMT
It was clearly racist. Just to imagine it in reverse shows this. Liberals should have nothing to do with racism at all Cancel culture over things like this is ridiculous. I'm sure many people have at some point made some dodgy joke about some group of people, including Farage. It's really not a big deal, we're all human. This is true, but the fact that the people now defending what the candidate said have spent the last 5 years trying to get people sacked for exactly this sort of thing means that, inevitably, the schadenfreude is being layered up on the hypocrisy. Live by the sword, die by it. |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,898
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Post by YL on Jun 21, 2024 18:08:18 GMT
Constituency poll by JL Partners: Farage well ahead.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2024 18:10:00 GMT
Constituency poll by JL Partners: Farage well ahead. Green Party landslide! |
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right
Conservative
Posts: 18,694
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Clacton
Jun 21, 2024 18:40:06 GMT
via mobile
Post by right on Jun 21, 2024 18:40:06 GMT
Constituency poll by JL Partners: Farage well ahead. All over the place |
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,745 
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Post by john07 on Jun 21, 2024 18:45:53 GMT
Labour are lucky they didn't have some dull Starmtrooper just grinding the gears to get a winnable seat next time. They ain't going to win but they do have someone to cheer the troops. As long as some of his studenty sayings don't get national cut through, which is highly unlikely. Some absolute lunatics are going to win though. There's plenty of seats not that dissimilar to Clacton where labour are going to win with not very vetted canddiates. The one that stands out to me when Jared O’Mara defeated Nick Clegg in Sheffield Hallam in 2017. How the hell he got through the screening process assuming there was one for seats considered ‘unwinnable’. |
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Post by towerhamlets on Jun 21, 2024 19:20:55 GMT
I've deleted much of what I wanted to say but this prompts me to try again. He's a young, ambitious, obviously confident person of colour, of whom British politics isn't exactly overflowing. When he was much younger, he used a turn of phrase in a cocky, boastful way, as all young people tend to do. This forum is on the whole white and "of an age". We've absolutely no idea about the lives experience of British people of colour, and to pass judgement on his entire being on the back of one turn off phrase is exactly the kind of "tears" he's referencing. Little wonder young people feel alienated from politics when a grand jury of retired generals can judge on a single turn of phrase. We will never be young again, maybe that's the real driver of the reactions here. I'm not looking this in the lens of his race specifically, but as a matter of general human decency. There has been more attention in this thread on an offhand comment that someone made years ago than his actual policies, views, etc. I'm quite sure most people will have, at some point, made some sort of off-colour comment to friends that they wouldn't make publicly as a public figure- it is unfortunate that for younger people nowadays with websites like Twitter being a common medium of communication, things remain on the public record in a way that they would not if they were just said in a pub. It seems that many people seek someone to be entirely perfect in what they say for their entire life, which is an absurd standard. His statement on it- that it was a casual comment he would not have said as a public figure- is fine. Politicians shouldn't be expected to apologize for private comments they made years ago unless they're unusually awful and with continuing relevance. It's fascinating to see people complain about political correctness until something offends them. I have certainly made stronger remarks about white people to my friends than this candidate has, and I know that acquaintances of mine have made comments about people like me. Sometimes I even overhear those comments and find that they are funny. If there is anyone here who has not made a remark to his friends that he would not like repeated in public, probably that is because he has no friends. My personal view is that I do not want to live in a society where all the things we say are monitored by the thought police. Maybe others here sincerely disagree with that, or maybe they are only pretending to in order to take shots at a Labour candidate. I can't say. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2024 21:03:07 GMT
This feels like the Fall of France for the Tories in Essex - far worse than Carswell's win for UKIP in 2015.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 22, 2024 1:51:15 GMT
I'm not looking this in the lens of his race specifically, but as a matter of general human decency. There has been more attention in this thread on an offhand comment that someone made years ago than his actual policies, views, etc. I'm quite sure most people will have, at some point, made some sort of off-colour comment to friends that they wouldn't make publicly as a public figure- it is unfortunate that for younger people nowadays with websites like Twitter being a common medium of communication, things remain on the public record in a way that they would not if they were just said in a pub. It seems that many people seek someone to be entirely perfect in what they say for their entire life, which is an absurd standard. His statement on it- that it was a casual comment he would not have said as a public figure- is fine. Politicians shouldn't be expected to apologize for private comments they made years ago unless they're unusually awful and with continuing relevance. It's fascinating to see people complain about political correctness until something offends them. I have certainly made a stronger remarks about white people to my friends than this candidate has, and I know that acquaintances of mine have made comments about people like me. Sometimes I even overhear those comments and find that they are funny. If there is anyone here who has not made a remark to his friends that he would not like repeated in public, probably that is because he has no friends. My personal view is that I do not want to live in a society where all the things we say are monitored by the thought police. Maybe others here sincerely disagree with that, or maybe they are only pretending to in order to take shots at a Labour candidate. I can't say. I agree with most of this but I would point out that tweeting something is not 'making a remark to friends that he would not like repeated in public'. Tweeting it is literally repeating it in public. I would wish no consequences for this individual in terms of career, and certainly no legal repersussions for his comments. I think however that it's perfectly reasonable and rational for white voters in this constituency to decline to vote for a candidate who is avowedly hostile to them and their interests, and it is perfectly reasonable for his political opponents to draw their attention to that. I'd also observe, that if I had a problem with brown people, such that I might want to make 'strong remarks' about them, I should probably not choose to live in Bangladesh.. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2024 1:54:54 GMT
This feels like the Fall of France for the Tories in Essex - far worse than Carswell's win for UKIP in 2015. ... because if the Tories lose this seat by much (even with the idiosyncratic Farage), then they are probably losing South Basildon & East Thurrock; Basildon & Billericay; Castle Point and Thurrock (either to Labour or Reform, probably to Labour in Basildon & Billericay and Thurrock and maybe Reform in the other seats). The Tories could fall to third party status in Essex after July 4th and no, that ain't hyperbole. |
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Post by AlltheGoodUsernamesAreTaken on Jun 22, 2024 11:39:18 GMT
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Clacton
Jun 22, 2024 12:00:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by rcronald on Jun 22, 2024 12:00:34 GMT
I'm not looking this in the lens of his race specifically, but as a matter of general human decency. There has been more attention in this thread on an offhand comment that someone made years ago than his actual policies, views, etc. I'm quite sure most people will have, at some point, made some sort of off-colour comment to friends that they wouldn't make publicly as a public figure- it is unfortunate that for younger people nowadays with websites like Twitter being a common medium of communication, things remain on the public record in a way that they would not if they were just said in a pub. It seems that many people seek someone to be entirely perfect in what they say for their entire life, which is an absurd standard. His statement on it- that it was a casual comment he would not have said as a public figure- is fine. Politicians shouldn't be expected to apologize for private comments they made years ago unless they're unusually awful and with continuing relevance. It's fascinating to see people complain about political correctness until something offends them. I have certainly made stronger remarks about white people to my friends than this candidate has, and I know that acquaintances of mine have made comments about people like me. Sometimes I even overhear those comments and find that they are funny. If there is anyone here who has not made a remark to his friends that he would not like repeated in public, probably that is because he has no friends. My personal view is that I do not want to live in a society where all the things we say are monitored by the thought police. Maybe others here sincerely disagree with that, or maybe they are only pretending to in order to take shots at a Labour candidate. I can't say. My main problem isn’t him holding the views that he holds, it’s that he was stupid enough to openly voice them online under his real name. |
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Post by John Chanin on Jun 22, 2024 12:47:55 GMT
It's fascinating to see people complain about political correctness until something offends them. I have certainly made stronger remarks about white people to my friends than this candidate has, and I know that acquaintances of mine have made comments about people like me. Sometimes I even overhear those comments and find that they are funny. If there is anyone here who has not made a remark to his friends that he would not like repeated in public, probably that is because he has no friends. My personal view is that I do not want to live in a society where all the things we say are monitored by the thought police. Maybe others here sincerely disagree with that, or maybe they are only pretending to in order to take shots at a Labour candidate. I can't say. My main problem isn’t him holding the views that he holds, it’s that he was stupid enough to openly voice them online under his real name. Young people aren't very good at thinking about the future, but the various pile ons do come to their attention, and I suspect some of them will be more cautious now than the previous generation. Like many people here, although basically 'left wing' I deplore the focus on stuff young people may have incautiously put into the public domain many years ago. What's important is what they think now. A racist tweet 10 years ago is irrelevant unless they are a serial offender. |
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