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Post by mattbewilson on Jun 18, 2023 13:06:49 GMT
You'd almost forget it's a democracy and people are entitled to vote and campaign for labour. Labour and the Lib Dems are not interchangeable. You don't get to demand progressives must support you otherwise they're enabling Tories. Actually work for people's votes
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bsjmcr
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Post by bsjmcr on Jun 18, 2023 13:15:38 GMT
Not the most pressing issue but as a geek for local authorities, I wonder where the actual count/declaration for this will be? As there have been some local government changes. Just wondering if you could have a similar situation to Batley and Spen where the count was Live from… Huddersfield, so outside the actual constituency. The new Somerset Council is based in Taunton, but the old South Somerset district covering most of this area was based in Yeovil and the Frome part was in Mendip, based in ‘Shepton Mallet’.
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Post by democratically socialising on Jun 18, 2023 13:26:54 GMT
Of course if the Labour Party have any sense we'll give the LDs a taste of their own medicine by running a proper campaign in this seat as well as the other three This current seat doesn’t have much of a Labour vote, but after reorganisation the Labour wards in BaNES are included & it’s then a 4 way fight. A sitting LDem MP makes them clear favourites 🙁 in the new seat That's a fair point. I was originally in the camp of, let the LDs have a clear run at this to hurt the Tories, pulling resources away from Mid Beds which Labour should take seriously (and I think, is). But the new Frome seat really isn't bad for Labour. Recent MRP on new boundaries - with all the caveats that come with it - had Labour beating the Tories here by 3.4%. We're never going to win this seat, but maintaining a decent campaign in Frome to shore things up seems a reasonable approach. I was hoping to try and campaign in each of the current round of by-elections - this one won't be easy for me to get to but annoyingly I think I'll try and make it. Even more annoyingly I was in Sherborne this weekend for a wedding, which is right on the boundary. Labour had a stall at the market today. |
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andrewp
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Post by andrewp on Jun 18, 2023 13:29:55 GMT
Not the most pressing issue but as a geek for local authorities, I wonder where the actual count/declaration for this will be? As there have been some local government changes. Just wondering if you could have a similar situation to Batley and Spen where the count was Live from… Huddersfield, so outside the actual constituency. The new Somerset Council is based in Taunton, but the old South Somerset district covering most of this area was based in Yeovil and the Frome part was in Mendip, based in ‘Shepton Mallet’. It could be. At the last GE, this constituency was administered by South Somerset DC and the count was at Westlands Entertainment venue in Yeovil. I imagine the count will either be there or at the Bath and West Showground ( which is in this constituency and not far off the middle of it.) |
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Post by Strontium Dog on Jun 18, 2023 13:32:58 GMT
Seriously, from the party who went into coalition with David Cameron? I am not a Liberal Democrat, I would always prefer the option to choose a Labour candidate. Whilst I wouldn't vote Conservative, I do not know why you think I would prefer to vote Lib Dem instead? The party who put petty rivalries aside and crippled itself for a generation simply so it could help rescue Britain from the doldrums is very much the best placed one to comment on these things, yes. Nobody's saying you should vote Lib Dem. It's the fact that a Labour supporter is relishing a Tory beating a Lib Dem, which is obnoxious. |
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Post by Strontium Dog on Jun 18, 2023 13:35:09 GMT
You'd almost forget it's a democracy and people are entitled to vote and campaign for labour. Labour and the Lib Dems are not interchangeable. You don't get to demand progressives must support you otherwise they're enabling Tories. Actually work for people's votes Nobody has demanded anything of the sort. I'd suggest you read the posts you're referencing. A Labour supporter hoping that Labour's campaign manages to shaft the Lib Dems at the expense of the Tories, their supposed rivals for government, is the issue here. |
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andrewp
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Post by andrewp on Jun 18, 2023 13:40:17 GMT
Seriously, from the party who went into coalition with David Cameron? I am not a Liberal Democrat, I would always prefer the option to choose a Labour candidate. Whilst I wouldn't vote Conservative, I do not know why you think I would prefer to vote Lib Dem instead? The party who put petty rivalries aside and crippled itself for a generation simply so it could help rescue Britain from the doldrums is very much the best placed one to comment on these things, yes. Nobody's saying you should vote Lib Dem. It's the fact that a Labour supporter is relishing a Tory beating a Lib Dem, which is obnoxious. Perhaps pertinent to the thread that this is being discussed on but I know several Labour supporters in Somerset who would rather the Tories win than the Lib Dem’s. They’ve told me that. Obviously there is a group of natural Labour supporters ( probably the majority?) in Somerset who either already vote Lib Dem or will do in a one off by election but I know several who wouldn’t for various reasons, and I know from talking to one of them that an assumption from a senior local Lib Dem that he will just vote Lib Dem as a matter of fact to beat the Tories is one of the reasons why they won’t. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 18, 2023 13:44:19 GMT
Not the most pressing issue but as a geek for local authorities, I wonder where the actual count/declaration for this will be? As there have been some local government changes. Just wondering if you could have a similar situation to Batley and Spen where the count was Live from… Huddersfield, so outside the actual constituency. The new Somerset Council is based in Taunton, but the old South Somerset district covering most of this area was based in Yeovil and the Frome part was in Mendip, based in ‘Shepton Mallet’. Judging from their website where trying to access Electoral Services means you have to pick which of the old districts you were in, they haven't yet integrated things. Somerton and Frome crossed the borders but the RO used to be South Somerset so possibly Yeovil. PS: Not surprsingly it declares late - past 5:30 AM in 2015, 5:16 AM in 2019. |
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Post by woollyliberal on Jun 18, 2023 13:50:15 GMT
Perhaps pertinent to the thread that this is being discussed on but I know several Labour supporters in Somerset who would rather the Tories win than the Lib Dem’s. They’ve told me that. Obviously there is a group of natural Labour supporters ( probably the majority?) in Somerset who either already vote Lib Dem or will do in a one off by election but I know several who wouldn’t for various reasons, and I know from talking to one of them that an assumption from a senior local Lib Dem that he will just vote Lib Dem as a matter of fact to beat the Tories is one of the reasons why they won’t. I've met plenty of such people. They're the first to demand that the Lib Dems stand down in favour of Labour, but take great offence at the idea of Labour standing down for anyone else, ever. They have a sense of entitlement that would rival BoJo. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 18, 2023 13:55:48 GMT
You'd almost forget it's a democracy and people are entitled to vote and campaign for labour. Labour and the Lib Dems are not interchangeable. You don't get to demand progressives must support you otherwise they're enabling Tories. Actually work for people's votes Nobody has demanded anything of the sort. I'd suggest you read the posts you're referencing. A Labour supporter hoping that Labour's campaign manages to shaft the Lib Dems at the expense of the Tories, their supposed rivals for government, is the issue here. As several people have already explained in this thread, the new Frome constituency as proposed would be a genuine Labour prospect as things stand - much less so if it were being contested by an imcumbent Lib Dem MP (or even if the Lib Dem MP went for the other succesor seat, the momentum from the by-election and the squeeze placed on the Labour vote then would impede their prospects at the general election). It's therefore entirely rational for Labour supporters to not wish the Lib Dems well. |
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Post by yellowperil on Jun 18, 2023 14:01:55 GMT
Frome itself used to have quite a strong Labour vote as well as one or two rural wards towards the coalfield like Coleford. I expect Labour's vote was concentrated there to a certain extent. TIL that there is a mining related Coleford in Somerset as well as Gloucestershire. You have to have pretty long memories to remember mining in the Somerset version. I am old enough to remember coal mining going on in Somerset- Pensford say, indeed I do remember the active coalmine there in my childhood- but the last mining in Coleford ended in 1927 so even I don't remember that. |
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bsjmcr
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Post by bsjmcr on Jun 18, 2023 14:02:45 GMT
Not the most pressing issue but as a geek for local authorities, I wonder where the actual count/declaration for this will be? As there have been some local government changes. Just wondering if you could have a similar situation to Batley and Spen where the count was Live from… Huddersfield, so outside the actual constituency. The new Somerset Council is based in Taunton, but the old South Somerset district covering most of this area was based in Yeovil and the Frome part was in Mendip, based in ‘Shepton Mallet’. Judging from their website where trying to access Electoral Services means you have to pick which of the old districts you were in, they haven't yet integrated things. Somerton and Frome crossed the borders but the RO used to be South Somerset so possibly Yeovil. PS: Not surprsingly it declares late - past 5:30 AM in 2015, 5:16 AM in 2019. With the risk of de-railing this thread, nothing about this authority would surprise me given despite its name Somerset Council, it doesn't include the areas known as North Somerset or [Bath and] North East Somerset. And no, I don't think the residents would know or care less about which is/was/still is a unitary or not... |
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Post by Strontium Dog on Jun 18, 2023 14:03:21 GMT
Nobody has demanded anything of the sort. I'd suggest you read the posts you're referencing. A Labour supporter hoping that Labour's campaign manages to shaft the Lib Dems at the expense of the Tories, their supposed rivals for government, is the issue here. As several people have already explained in this thread, the new Frome constituency as proposed would be a genuine Labour prospect as things stand - much less so if it were being contested by an imcumbent Lib Dem MP (or even if the Lib Dem MP went for the other succesor seat, the momentum from the by-election and the squeeze placed on the Labour vote then would impede their prospects at the general election). It's therefore entirely rational for Labour supporters to not wish the Lib Dems well. Well, it's an opinion. |
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Post by batman on Jun 18, 2023 16:11:57 GMT
It's moronic views like this that make one despair for the future of progressive politics. Mr Lefty would rather the Tories win as long as Labour are slightly better third place losers. Myn uffern! What else do you expect from the Labservative duopoly. if any comment in this thread is moronic, this one is much closer to being moronic than europeanlefty's comment. Since they returned to power at Westminster in 2010, the Tories have attempted to rig the boundary changes in their favour, brought in voter suppression laws, and brought in laws making it much more difficult for unions (many of which are affiliated to the Labour Party) to go on strike. Previously they attempted to make it more difficult for unions to affiliate to the Party (which backfired). In short, while we are nowhere near where we threaten to get in the USA, where Trumpites ridicule the very thought that voters would ever consider voting against their party, and cry foul at any election reverse - thank goodness - the Tories are perfectly prepared to rig the electoral machine to make it easier for them to carry on, and therefore prevent more Labour MPs from being elected. The idea that there is some sort of duopoly, where Labour & the Tories are presumably supposed to be actively working happily with each other to prevent smaller parties getting in, is so far removed from the truth as to be completely bonkers, the stuff of mad conspiracy theorists. In reality, during this parliament the opposition have been in a de facto informal pact not to tread on each other's toes in by-elections, and for the most part in the forthcoming general election too. It's a shame because Strontium Dog is capable of incisive & intelligent comments. |
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Post by london(ex)tory on Jun 18, 2023 17:12:12 GMT
Judging from their website where trying to access Electoral Services means you have to pick which of the old districts you were in, they haven't yet integrated things. Somerton and Frome crossed the borders but the RO used to be South Somerset so possibly Yeovil. PS: Not surprsingly it declares late - past 5:30 AM in 2015, 5:16 AM in 2019. With the risk of de-railing this thread, nothing about this authority would surprise me given despite its name Somerset Council, it doesn't include the areas known as North Somerset or [Bath and] North East Somerset. And no, I don't think the residents would know or care less about which is/was/still is a unitary or not... Of course Somerset Council doesn’t include North Somerset or North East Somerset. It never has. They are Avon, always have been and always will be. Only a booliak would think otherwise. |
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Terry Weldon
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Post by Terry Weldon on Jun 18, 2023 17:38:17 GMT
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r34t
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Post by r34t on Jun 18, 2023 17:41:40 GMT
Nobody has demanded anything of the sort. I'd suggest you read the posts you're referencing. A Labour supporter hoping that Labour's campaign manages to shaft the Lib Dems at the expense of the Tories, their supposed rivals for government, is the issue here. As several people have already explained in this thread, the new Frome constituency as proposed would be a genuine Labour prospect as things stand - much less so if it were being contested by an imcumbent Lib Dem MP (or even if the Lib Dem MP went for the other succesor seat, the momentum from the by-election and the squeeze placed on the Labour vote then would impede their prospects at the general election). It's therefore entirely rational for Labour supporters to not wish the Lib Dems well. A conversation I’ve had about the LibDem candidate for Somerton & Frome is that she is from the Somerton end of the constituency & is likely to head for the new Glastonbury & Somerton Constituency, so potentially no incumbent LibDem MP in the new Frome. interestingly Frome is known locally as the London borough of Frome, in part because of the number of people moving to the West Country & taking advantage of the direct rail service, bringing a degree of London political allegiances with them. |
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r34t
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Post by r34t on Jun 18, 2023 17:43:12 GMT
Judging from their website where trying to access Electoral Services means you have to pick which of the old districts you were in, they haven't yet integrated things. Somerton and Frome crossed the borders but the RO used to be South Somerset so possibly Yeovil. PS: Not surprsingly it declares late - past 5:30 AM in 2015, 5:16 AM in 2019. With the risk of de-railing this thread, nothing about this authority would surprise me given despite its name Somerset Council, it doesn't include the areas known as North Somerset or [Bath and] North East Somerset. And no, I don't think the residents would know or care less about which is/was/still is a unitary or not... Not from round yer r you 🤔 |
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r34t
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Post by r34t on Jun 18, 2023 17:43:58 GMT
With the risk of de-railing this thread, nothing about this authority would surprise me given despite its name Somerset Council, it doesn't include the areas known as North Somerset or [Bath and] North East Somerset. And no, I don't think the residents would know or care less about which is/was/still is a unitary or not... Of course Somerset Council doesn’t include North Somerset or North East Somerset. It never has. They are Avon, always have been and always will be. Only a booliak would think otherwise. CUBA |
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 18, 2023 18:09:01 GMT
Seriously, from the party who went into coalition with David Cameron? I am not a Liberal Democrat, I would always prefer the option to choose a Labour candidate. Whilst I wouldn't vote Conservative, I do not know why you think I would prefer to vote Lib Dem instead? The party who put petty rivalries aside and crippled itself for a generation simply so it could help rescue Britain from the doldrums is very much the best placed one to comment on these things, yes. Nobody's saying you should vote Lib Dem. It's the fact that a Labour supporter is relishing a Tory beating a Lib Dem, which is obnoxious. You've liked your own post... |
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