|
|
Post by kvasir on Jun 21, 2023 14:58:41 GMT
Aren't those born on UK overseas military bases treated as 'UK Country of birth' for statistical purposes but are not actually born here? I think my friend's kids fall into this category... That was indeed my interpretation when gathering the data. I know someone born on one of the UK military bases in Cyprus for example. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 15:00:06 GMT
Or as it's people answering for themselves, people who were born abroad but moved to the UK as babies might have put born abroad but resident from birth, or of course people who were born while parents were resident but temporarily abroad etc.
|
|
sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979 
|
Post by sirbenjamin on Jun 21, 2023 15:01:09 GMT
Broadly speaking, non-drivers fall into two (not entirely exclusive) groups: 1. Those too poor to run a car and 2. Those who live in a large enough place that they don't need to leave it for most everyday purposes, and when they do have good enough public transport connections to do so. You're forgetting the most meaningful group of all: Those of us who despair at the lack of attractive vehicle options now, compared to the 1970s-80s peak, and who choose not to drive as a matter of principle... I find that hiring a 'car' in this country for a driving holiday is like voting in a GE these days, essentially glumly settling for the least bad option and feeling a sense of exquisitely nostalgic sadness. |
|
|
|
Post by greenchristian on Jun 21, 2023 15:54:09 GMT
Plus, and this is important, the Travel to Work stats from the 2021 census are basically junk for the obvious reasons. I've always thought those numbers were slightly odd, whichever census they come from. Why only count the commutes of people in paid employment, and not those in full-time education or who regularly commute to do some form of voluntary work? If the purpose of the question is to assist in transport planning (which is the only practical purpose these numbers could reasonably be used for), then restricting who counts as a commuter by whether the activity they're commuting to is paid employment or not is utterly ridiculous. |
|
|
|
Post by greenhert on Jun 21, 2023 18:11:39 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by John Chanin on Jun 21, 2023 18:38:07 GMT
The loonies definitely have lost imagination and impetus in recent years. Perhaps they need some new leadership. |
|
YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,908
|
Post by YL on Jun 21, 2023 18:45:18 GMT
Former Wakefield Tory councillor:
|
|
|
|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jun 21, 2023 19:41:48 GMT
Plus, and this is important, the Travel to Work stats from the 2021 census are basically junk for the obvious reasons. I've always thought those numbers were slightly odd, whichever census they come from. Why only count the commutes of people in paid employment, and not those in full-time education or who regularly commute to do some form of voluntary work? If the purpose of the question is to assist in transport planning (which is the only practical purpose these numbers could reasonably be used for), then restricting who counts as a commuter by whether the activity they're commuting to is paid employment or not is utterly ridiculous. This is true, but for most areas will have only a marginal impact. Whereas the fact that plenty of people were working from home at the time of the census but were not going to be doing so permanently is significantly more impactful. |
|
|
|
Post by Ron Swanson on Jun 21, 2023 19:49:37 GMT
Former Wakefield Tory councillor: A generation from now people won’t remember that Wakefield used to have Tories. If you find one get a picture with them, show it to the grandkids. |
|
|
|
Post by greenchristian on Jun 21, 2023 21:04:45 GMT
I've always thought those numbers were slightly odd, whichever census they come from. Why only count the commutes of people in paid employment, and not those in full-time education or who regularly commute to do some form of voluntary work? If the purpose of the question is to assist in transport planning (which is the only practical purpose these numbers could reasonably be used for), then restricting who counts as a commuter by whether the activity they're commuting to is paid employment or not is utterly ridiculous. This is true, but for most areas will have only a marginal impact. Whereas the fact that plenty of people were working from home at the time of the census but were not going to be doing so permanently is significantly more impactful. I wasn't aware that schoolchildren (whose commuting habits often differ from those of their parents) were a marginal group in most areas. But yes, the figures are even less meaningful in 2021 than they would be in any other year. |
|
|
|
Post by bjornhattan on Jun 21, 2023 21:21:02 GMT
This is true, but for most areas will have only a marginal impact. Whereas the fact that plenty of people were working from home at the time of the census but were not going to be doing so permanently is significantly more impactful. I wasn't aware that schoolchildren (whose commuting habits often differ from those of their parents) were a marginal group in most areas. But yes, the figures are even less meaningful in 2021 than they would be in any other year. They aren't a marginal group but their patterns wouldn't be particularly meaningful - for short trips you'll get a lot of walking with some cycling; for longer trips the bus will dominate. If anything the fact most children grow up in suburban areas rather than city centres will obscure differences between areas by making public transport usage look higher in areas where it is quite low but not really increasing it in areas where it is already high. Students may actually be a little more interesting (though some work* so there would be issues with double counting), but again I'm not sure there'd be huge variation around the country, perhaps just a big uplift to cycling in a few cities and to buses in a few others. The current variable may not be perfect from a planning point of view but I understand why they focused on travel to work - and I suspect the more interesting figures will be the breakdown by place of work once that comes out. * as an aside, this causes a strange issue with the current census data. A fairly significant number of long distance (>60km) commuters "travel to work" on foot - and when you dig in to the data these are overwhelmingly in student areas. I suspect these are students who work outside of term time, in locations close to their home address but very far from their university address at which they are listed in the census. |
|
aargauer
Conservative
Posts: 6,002
Member is Online
|
Post by aargauer on Jun 21, 2023 21:35:23 GMT
Former Wakefield Tory councillor: A generation from now people won’t remember that Wakefield used to have Tories. If you find one get a picture with them, show it to the grandkids. I suspect in 50 years having stood for Wandsworth conservatives in a year where we won is going to make me sound absolutely Palaeolithic. Not going to win there again. Demographics simply aren't there. A bit like how we'd view the last conservative administration in Liverpool. |
|
Sg1
Conservative
Posts: 1,084
|
Post by Sg1 on Jun 21, 2023 21:50:16 GMT
A generation from now people won’t remember that Wakefield used to have Tories. If you find one get a picture with them, show it to the grandkids. I suspect in 50 years having stood for Wandsworth conservatives in a year where we won is going to make me sound absolutely Palaeolithic. Not going to win there again. Demographics simply aren't there. A bit like how we'd view the last conservative administration in Liverpool. On that note it's always remarkable to think that John Major was a Conservative councillor in Brixton. |
|
|
|
Post by gwynthegriff on Jun 21, 2023 22:08:37 GMT
I suspect in 50 years having stood for Wandsworth conservatives in a year where we won is going to make me sound absolutely Palaeolithic. Not going to win there again. Demographics simply aren't there. A bit like how we'd view the last conservative administration in Liverpool. On that note it's always remarkable to think that John Major was a Conservative councillor in Brixton. Never say never. There are no Conservative borough councillors in Nantwich. One of the most deprived areas of Crewe has a Conservative borough councillor. Strange times. |
|
Sg1
Conservative
Posts: 1,084
|
Post by Sg1 on Jun 21, 2023 22:15:33 GMT
On that note it's always remarkable to think that John Major was a Conservative councillor in Brixton. Never say never. There are no Conservative borough councillors in Nantwich. One of the most deprived areas of Crewe has a Conservative borough councillor. Strange times. That doesn't surprise me at all. That seems to be the general post brexit pattern. Politics has realigned a lot since 2016. Nothings precluding Futher realignments. |
|
johnloony
Conservative
Posts: 24,559
Member is Online
|
Post by johnloony on Jun 22, 2023 0:12:45 GMT
The loonies definitely have lost imagination and impetus in recent years. Perhaps they need some new leadership. The OMRLP constitution states explicitly that Alan Hope is leader for life. A leadership election has to wait until he explodes. |
|
skyep
Non-Aligned
Posts: 61
|
Post by skyep on Jun 22, 2023 6:12:12 GMT
The loonies definitely have lost imagination and impetus in recent years. Perhaps they need some new leadership. The OMRLP constitution states explicitly that Alan Hope is leader for life. A leadership election has to wait until he explodes. sounds like a breakaway 'democratic' mrlp might be in order! |
|
|
|
Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Jun 22, 2023 6:17:56 GMT
The OMRLP constitution states explicitly that Alan Hope is leader for life. A leadership election has to wait until he explodes. sounds like a breakaway 'democratic' mrlp might be in order!
|
|
|
|
Post by John Chanin on Jun 22, 2023 7:09:27 GMT
The loonies definitely have lost imagination and impetus in recent years. Perhaps they need some new leadership. The OMRLP constitution states explicitly that Alan Hope is leader for life. A leadership election has to wait until he explodes. Perhaps an explosion could be encouraged..... |
|
YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,908
|
Post by YL on Jun 22, 2023 7:50:02 GMT
Former Wakefield Tory councillor: A generation from now people won’t remember that Wakefield used to have Tories. If you find one get a picture with them, show it to the grandkids. Why would things be that bad for them long term in Wakefield in particular? They had a bad result this year but surely that was caused more by infighting and a bad national environment than demographic change or other long term effects? |
|
