Rutherglen & Hamilton West

[batman]

actually I was talking about Sproat, sorry if it appeared it was about Malone. Who isn't a cricket writer as far as I know. Malone I understand is the first Scottish Conservative Catholic MP.

[doktorb🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️]

The Labour candidate in a key by-election has admitted he was at loggerheads with Sir Keir Starmer over the two-child benefit cap and gender self-ID.
Michael Shanks, the bookies’ favourite to win the Rutherglen and Hamilton West contest, pledged to vote against the cap if elected a Labour MP.
Launching his campaign, he said it was a “heinous policy” and admitted he had “differences of opinion” with Sir Keir, who has said he would not lift it if he becomes prime minister.
In another split with the UK Labour leader, Mr Shanks said he backed the “de-medicalisation” of the process for changing legal gender and the “general principles” of the SNP’s Gender Recognition Reform Bill at Holyrood.
This would have allowed Scots to switch gender by simply signing a statutory declaration but it was vetoed by the UK Government over concerns it compromised women’s rights.
Sir Keir told a radio phone-in last week that self-ID was not the “right way forward” and he had dropped his support for the controversial reform having “reflected on what happened in Scotland”.
Launching the SNP campaign nearby, First Minister Humza Yousaf sought to exploit the split by arguing voters faced a choice between backing the SNP or getting a “Labour MP that will do Keir Starmer’s bidding and back cruel Tory policies that have seen tens of thousands of children, many of them in this constituency, plunged into poverty”.
Dismissing Mr Shanks’s insistence he would vote against the two-child benefit cap, Mr Yousaf argued that a Labour MP would “do whatever, I’m certain, Keir Starmer tells him to do”.
Police investigationBut the SNP candidate admitted that it was “not ideal” that the contest was being held in the shadow of a police investigation into the party’s finances.
Katy Loudon, a local councillor, said there was no point “in saying otherwise” following the arrest of senior SNP figures, including Nicola Sturgeon. Ms Loudon insisted that the furore, which has dominated Scottish politics for months, was not being raised by voters on the doorstep.
Margaret Ferrier, the former MP for Rutherglen and Hamilton West, with Nicola SturgeonMargaret Ferrier, the former MP for Rutherglen and Hamilton West, with Nicola Sturgeon CREDIT: Jane Barlow/PAThe by-election is expected to be staged in early October after voters in the seat, near Glasgow, sacked their disgraced nationalist MP over a serious breach of Covid rules.
Margaret Ferrier was suspended from the Commons for 30 days after travelling from Scotland to Westminster and back by train while suffering from coronavirus in September 2020.
She was then ousted in a recall petition signed by nearly 15 per cent of her constituents, far more than the 10 per cent threshold required. Ms Ferrier won the seat from Labour in the 2019 election with a 5,230 majority.
The by-election is the first major electoral test for Mr Yousaf as SNP leader but is also seen as a must-win for Labour if the party is to stage a Scottish comeback in next year’s general election and propel Sir Keir into Downing Street.
Asked about Sir Keir’s refusal to lift the benefit cap, Mr Shanks, a teacher, said: “Scottish Labour is opposed to the two-child cap, we’ll continue to oppose it and I’ll campaign against it.”
He insisted Sir Keir would be a “fantastic prime minister”, but added: “We have differences of opinion on certain things. That’s the maturity of devolution into its third decade.
“The reality is we should have different policy positions in Scotland and the rest of the UK because that’s why we created the Scottish Parliament in the first place.”insert quote here

[uthacalthing]

Aug 2, 2023 21:32:28 GMT doktorb🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ said:

Mr Shanks said he backed the “de-medicalisation” of the process for changing legal gender and the “general principles” of the SNP’s Gender Recognition Reform Bill at Holyrood.
This would have allowed Scots to switch gender by simply signing a statutory declaration but it was vetoed by the UK Government over concerns it compromised women’s rights.

One of two outcomes follows if this position is adopted. 

Either " gender" is legally recognised to be essentially a meaningless term that accords the individual no particular rights in law. 

Or it does accord the individual rights in law by simply signing a statutory declaration. 

It makes little practical difference to me, but quite a lot to male rapists, attention seeking cross dressers and failed male age group athletes . And their allies. 

[The Bishop]

Aug 2, 2023 17:59:56 GMT batman said:

actually I was talking about Sproat, sorry if it appeared it was about Malone. Who isn't a cricket writer as far as I know. Malone I understand is the first Scottish Conservative Catholic MP.

That is one hell of a stat, given the number of previous Scottish Tory MPs down the years.

(though isn't Michael Ancram also a Catholic? It would be pretty remarkable if *he* was the first, mind)

[Pete Whitehead]

Aug 2, 2023 21:32:28 GMT doktorb🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ said:

The Labour candidate in a key by-election has admitted he was at loggerheads with Sir Keir Starmer over the two-child benefit cap and gender self-ID.
Michael Shanks, the bookies’ favourite to win the Rutherglen and Hamilton West contest, pledged to vote against the cap if elected a Labour MP.
Launching his campaign, he said it was a “heinous policy” and admitted he had “differences of opinion” with Sir Keir, who has said he would not lift it if he becomes prime minister.
In another split with the UK Labour leader, Mr Shanks said he backed the “de-medicalisation” of the process for changing legal gender and the “general principles” of the SNP’s Gender Recognition Reform Bill at Holyrood.
This would have allowed Scots to switch gender by simply signing a statutory declaration but it was vetoed by the UK Government over concerns it compromised women’s rights.
Sir Keir told a radio phone-in last week that self-ID was not the “right way forward” and he had dropped his support for the controversial reform having “reflected on what happened in Scotland”.
Launching the SNP campaign nearby, First Minister Humza Yousaf sought to exploit the split by arguing voters faced a choice between backing the SNP or getting a “Labour MP that will do Keir Starmer’s bidding and back cruel Tory policies that have seen tens of thousands of children, many of them in this constituency, plunged into poverty”.
Dismissing Mr Shanks’s insistence he would vote against the two-child benefit cap, Mr Yousaf argued that a Labour MP would “do whatever, I’m certain, Keir Starmer tells him to do”.
Police investigationBut the SNP candidate admitted that it was “not ideal” that the contest was being held in the shadow of a police investigation into the party’s finances.
Katy Loudon, a local councillor, said there was no point “in saying otherwise” following the arrest of senior SNP figures, including Nicola Sturgeon. Ms Loudon insisted that the furore, which has dominated Scottish politics for months, was not being raised by voters on the doorstep.
Margaret Ferrier, the former MP for Rutherglen and Hamilton West, with Nicola SturgeonMargaret Ferrier, the former MP for Rutherglen and Hamilton West, with Nicola Sturgeon CREDIT: Jane Barlow/PAThe by-election is expected to be staged in early October after voters in the seat, near Glasgow, sacked their disgraced nationalist MP over a serious breach of Covid rules.
Margaret Ferrier was suspended from the Commons for 30 days after travelling from Scotland to Westminster and back by train while suffering from coronavirus in September 2020.
She was then ousted in a recall petition signed by nearly 15 per cent of her constituents, far more than the 10 per cent threshold required. Ms Ferrier won the seat from Labour in the 2019 election with a 5,230 majority.
The by-election is the first major electoral test for Mr Yousaf as SNP leader but is also seen as a must-win for Labour if the party is to stage a Scottish comeback in next year’s general election and propel Sir Keir into Downing Street.
Asked about Sir Keir’s refusal to lift the benefit cap, Mr Shanks, a teacher, said: “Scottish Labour is opposed to the two-child cap, we’ll continue to oppose it and I’ll campaign against it.”
He insisted Sir Keir would be a “fantastic prime minister”, but added: “We have differences of opinion on certain things. That’s the maturity of devolution into its third decade.
“The reality is we should have different policy positions in Scotland and the rest of the UK because that’s why we created the Scottish Parliament in the first place.”insert quote here

If you're going to do these kind of copy & paste jobs could you 1. Link to the article you're copying from 2. tidy up the formatting a bit so you have proper paragraphs and leave out subheadings (eg Police Investigation) 3. Edit out captions and/or credits for photos contained in the article but which do not feature in your quote.

[batman]

Aug 3, 2023 11:24:51 GMT The Bishop said:

Aug 2, 2023 17:59:56 GMT batman said:

actually I was talking about Sproat, sorry if it appeared it was about Malone. Who isn't a cricket writer as far as I know. Malone I understand is the first Scottish Conservative Catholic MP.

That is one hell of a stat, given the number of previous Scottish Tory MPs down the years.

(though isn't Michael Ancram also a Catholic? It would be pretty remarkable if *he* was the first, mind)

you're right, Ancram came first.

[CatholicLeft]

Aug 3, 2023 11:24:51 GMT The Bishop said:

Aug 2, 2023 17:59:56 GMT batman said:

actually I was talking about Sproat, sorry if it appeared it was about Malone. Who isn't a cricket writer as far as I know. Malone I understand is the first Scottish Conservative Catholic MP.

That is one hell of a stat, given the number of previous Scottish Tory MPs down the years.

(though isn't Michael Ancram also a Catholic? It would be pretty remarkable if he was the first, mind)

It was definitely Michael Ancram, first elected for the old Berwick and East Lothian seat in February 1974. The close links between the Orange Order and the old Scottish Unionist Party were not conducive to garnering the Catholic vote.
It is perhaps noteworthy that it took a Scottish aristocrat to be the first Catholic Tory MP.
I would recommend reading the excellent Doctoral thesis by David Seawright
"The Decline of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party 1950-1992", especially from page 37 onwards for a reflection on the religious divide phenomenon and its effect on the Scottish Conservatives.

[CatholicLeft]

I think the significance of Gerry Malone is that he was the first Catholic of an Irish (and Glasgow) background elected for the Scottish Tories. He failed to be elected for 3 different Glasgow seats (famously in the Hillhead byelection) partly because he appealed neither to the Protestant or Catholic communities.
It is significant that he was finally elected for the less sectarian Aberdeen South, if only for one term, before he reappeared 550 miles south in Winchester.

[uthacalthing]

Aug 3, 2023 12:02:44 GMT CatholicLeft said:

It was definitely Michael Ancram, first elected for the old Berwick and East Lothian seat in February 1974. The close links between the Orange Order and the old Scottish Unionist Party were not conducive to garnering the Catholic vote.
It is perhaps noteworthy that it took a Scottish aristocrat to be the first Catholic Tory MP.
I would recommend reading the excellent Doctoral thesis by David Seawright
"The Decline of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party 1950-1992", especially from page 37 onwards for a reflection on the religious divide phenomenon and its effect on the Scottish Conservatives.

well, yes and no. I would suggest another factor was the close links between the Catholic Church and the Labour Party. There had been scores of Catholic Tory candidates in the past but none got elected. That's not because the Tory party didn't want them elected, it's because voters didn't.

[uthacalthing]

The name Seawright is very rare.

There are few others of note, my chum, a renowned expert on Scottish native wild grasses, and UVF paramilitary George Seawright, who was assassinated by the INLA. Google throws up Craig and Tracey, pastors in Belfaaast who are passionate about God's work.

I think I would find David Seawright and his work of interest.

[CatholicLeft]

Aug 3, 2023 20:43:37 GMT uthacalthing said:

Aug 3, 2023 12:02:44 GMT CatholicLeft said:

It was definitely Michael Ancram, first elected for the old Berwick and East Lothian seat in February 1974. The close links between the Orange Order and the old Scottish Unionist Party were not conducive to garnering the Catholic vote.
It is perhaps noteworthy that it took a Scottish aristocrat to be the first Catholic Tory MP.
I would recommend reading the excellent Doctoral thesis by David Seawright
"The Decline of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party 1950-1992", especially from page 37 onwards for a reflection on the religious divide phenomenon and its effect on the Scottish Conservatives.

well, yes and no. I would suggest another factor was the close links between the Catholic Church and the Labour Party. There had been scores of Catholic Tory candidates in the past but none got elected. That's not because the Tory party didn't want them elected, it's because voters didn't.

I am not disagreeing with you, except to say that they weren't rushing to select Catholics in safe Tory seats for quite a while. As you say, and as I intimated in the posts to which you were replying, it was not an easy furrow to plough for a Catholic Unionist/Tory candidate in Scotland for a very long time.

[CatholicLeft]

Aug 3, 2023 20:50:04 GMT uthacalthing said:

The name Seawright is very rare.

There are few others of note, my chum, a renowned expert on Scottish native wild grasses, and UVF paramilitary George Seawright, who was assassinated by the INLA. Google throws up Craig and Tracey, pastors in Belfaaast who are passionate about God's work.

I think I would find David Seawright and his work of interest.

His thesis is a cracking read - well, for our kind of nerd, anyway.

[uthacalthing]

The Jewish/Catholic/Asian/Black/Gay/female/working class Conservative politician who feels compelled to try to overcome the snobbery and prejudice of the Tory rank and file out of conviction for day-to-day ideals is an interesting conundrum. It's a harder task than the posh public school boy who seeks to embrace socialism

Of all Tory politicians I have known the most regular churchgoer was David Davidson MSP, who attended the One True Church.

[stb12]

Aug 3, 2023 21:53:39 GMT uthacalthing said:

The Jewish/Catholic/Asian/Black/Gay/female/working class Conservative politician who feels compelled to try to overcome the snobbery and prejudice of the Tory rank and file out of conviction for day-to-day ideals is an interesting conundrum. It's a harder task than the posh public school boy who seeks to embrace socialism

Of all Tory politicians I have known the most regular churchgoer was David Davidson MSP, who attended the One True Church.

Apparently had an affair with Christine Grahame

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/tory-msp-resigns-after-drink-and-sex-allegations-2479806

[Pete Whitehead]

Aug 3, 2023 22:51:24 GMT stb12 said:

Aug 3, 2023 21:53:39 GMT uthacalthing said:

The Jewish/Catholic/Asian/Black/Gay/female/working class Conservative politician who feels compelled to try to overcome the snobbery and prejudice of the Tory rank and file out of conviction for day-to-day ideals is an interesting conundrum. It's a harder task than the posh public school boy who seeks to embrace socialism

Of all Tory politicians I have known the most regular churchgoer was David Davidson MSP, who attended the One True Church.

Apparently had an affair with Christine Grahame

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/tory-msp-resigns-after-drink-and-sex-allegations-2479806

You'd have to think being drunk would be a prerequisite for that

[minionofmidas]

Aug 4, 2023 4:19:03 GMT Pete Whitehead said:

Aug 3, 2023 22:51:24 GMT stb12 said:

Apparently had an affair with Christine Grahame

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/tory-msp-resigns-after-drink-and-sex-allegations-2479806

You'd have to think being drunk would be a prerequisite for that

For what, regular churchgoing?

[bigfatron]

Aug 4, 2023 5:42:29 GMT minionofmidas said:

Aug 4, 2023 4:19:03 GMT Pete Whitehead said:

You'd have to think being drunk would be a prerequisite for that

For what, regular churchgoing?

Either?

[right]

Aug 3, 2023 20:43:37 GMT uthacalthing said:

Aug 3, 2023 12:02:44 GMT CatholicLeft said:

It was definitely Michael Ancram, first elected for the old Berwick and East Lothian seat in February 1974. The close links between the Orange Order and the old Scottish Unionist Party were not conducive to garnering the Catholic vote.
It is perhaps noteworthy that it took a Scottish aristocrat to be the first Catholic Tory MP.
I would recommend reading the excellent Doctoral thesis by David Seawright
"The Decline of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party 1950-1992", especially from page 37 onwards for a reflection on the religious divide phenomenon and its effect on the Scottish Conservatives.

well, yes and no. I would suggest another factor was the close links between the Catholic Church and the Labour Party. There had been scores of Catholic Tory candidates in the past but none got elected. That's not because the Tory party didn't want them elected, it's because voters didn't.

Anecdotally I'm noticing that among Scottish Catholics that church going does still seem to correlate closely to whether you are a Labour voter and non church going to SNP, although I suspect when you allow for age much but not all of the difference will disappear.

Also anecdotally Scots who go south of the border seem to become Tory at an amazing rate.  And that's been going on for as long as I was aware that Scots coming south were a thing.  Voting Tory for the first time for many middle class Scots seems to be the equivalent of getting a permanent residence pass to stay in England.

[right]

As long as one of the major parties wants a byelection, a succesful recall petition is now a nailed on certainty if the privileges committee gives a ten day suspension.
And any MP who faces such a byelection is likely to be judged as having brought this election about and so will face a steep (and I think so far unsurmounted) hurdle to re-election.

Although an outright partisan tilt on the privileges committee may become hard to enforce - and has not come about yet - this suggests that the committee now has a lot of power and that they will use it to punish MPs who are outsiders and protect insiders, which is harder to lay out than a straight partisan tilt. The difference between the treatment of Boris Johnson and Bernard Jenkins may prove to be an illustration of this.

Perhaps this will over time be eroded as perceived abuses of process by the privileges committee get more cut through. Or perhaps the privileges committee will slowly slough off the more partisan or more aggressively blobby members such as Harman.

I still think recall is a useful tool for voters over their representatives, but unless the privileges committee can show that they aren't going to be an insiders' enforcement club then either they should lose their gatekeeper role or there needs to be an awareness raising effort about the privileges committee's alignment with the blob.

[The Bishop]

I have my own critique of Harman, but there really is precious little evidence she has acted improperly as part of this committee.

(and a reminder that the Johnson report was unanimous)

Tories also got away with it in Delyn, let's not forget.