YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,908
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Post by YL on Jan 3, 2023 12:09:20 GMT
That should be Llwchwr (two Ws). Is "Bed-vech-ty" an old joke about how a German or Russian might pronounce it or something? Otherwise I'm a bit mystified as to where it comes from; I would have thought an English person, even one with very little knowledge of Welsh, would go for something like /bɛdˈwɛlti/ ("bed-WEL-ty") and except for replacing the /l/ with a better approximation to the actual Welsh sound, that's actually pretty close to the Welsh; I can't see where the /v/ comes from. (And is the "ch" meant to be an English style /tʃ/ as in "church", which would be bizarre, or the /x/ of "Bach" (German or Welsh) or "loch", or what?) you sure about the spelling? discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6651884Yes: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llwchwr. Asking Google for the other spelling, and insisting on it when Google corrects you, gives only a handful of links, including the one you found. |
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,843 
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Post by Crimson King on Jan 3, 2023 13:24:11 GMT
I pronounce oo in Welsh as a short oo if that makes sense, so I would go for something like Bed-ooelch-ty
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Post by minionofmidas on Jan 3, 2023 13:42:58 GMT
I pronounce oo in Welsh as a short oo if that makes sense, so I would go for something like Bed-ooelch-ty Not before e, where it's the exact same abominable butchery of a semivocalic consonant as in English! |
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,843
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Post by Crimson King on Jan 3, 2023 13:44:46 GMT
I pronounce oo in Welsh as a short oo if that makes sense, so I would go for something like Bed-ooelch-ty Not before e, where it's the exact same abominable butchery of a semivocalic consonant as in English! diolch |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,029
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Post by Sibboleth on Jan 3, 2023 14:38:51 GMT
A lot of places in the Valleys have pronunciations that are neither what you'd expect from the standard Welsh or standard English interpretations of their specific combination of letters. My favourite is probably Rhigos which is pronounced variously Rick-oss or Rick-uss.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2023 14:46:59 GMT
All of these attempts at transcribing pronunciations without IPA are giving me a headache....
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Post by batman on Jan 3, 2023 15:19:28 GMT
All of these attempts at transcribing pronunciations without IPA are giving me a headache.... need to change your picture then |
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Post by minionofmidas on Jan 3, 2023 15:19:36 GMT
A lot of places in the Valleys have pronunciations that are neither what you'd expect from the standard Welsh or standard English interpretations of their specific combination of letters. My favourite is probably Rhigos which is pronounced variously Rick-oss or Rick-uss. eh, jokes about the divergent voiced/voiceless disambiguation between English and Welsh presumably weren't new when Shakespeare put them in Captain Fluellen's mouth. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,029
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Post by Sibboleth on Jan 3, 2023 16:13:48 GMT
A lot of places in the Valleys have pronunciations that are neither what you'd expect from the standard Welsh or standard English interpretations of their specific combination of letters. My favourite is probably Rhigos which is pronounced variously Rick-oss or Rick-uss. eh, jokes about the divergent voiced/voiceless disambiguation between English and Welsh presumably weren't new when Shakespeare put them in Captain Fluellen's mouth. Or came up with the name 'Fluellen'! |
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Post by minionofmidas on Jan 3, 2023 16:18:41 GMT
eh, jokes about the divergent voiced/voiceless disambiguation between English and Welsh presumably weren't new when Shakespeare put them in Captain Fluellen's mouth. Or came up with the name 'Fluellen'! The spelling, rather. The intent should be clear enough. |
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Post by johnloony on Jan 3, 2023 18:50:54 GMT
All of these attempts at transcribing pronunciations without IPA are giving me a headache.... [bɛdwɛɬti] is pronounced [θrǝʊtwɒblǝ mæŋgrǝʊv]. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jan 3, 2023 18:54:15 GMT
All of these attempts at transcribing pronunciations without IPA are giving me a headache.... [bɛdwɛɬti] is pronounced [θrǝʊtwɒblǝ mæŋgrǝʊv]. That's easy for you to say.  |
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,786
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Post by john07 on Jan 4, 2023 21:43:36 GMT
Pronounced "Bed-vech-ty". Rendered by Private Eye as "Bedwetty". IIRC the Private Eye usage came about after the then MP (a ferocious *opponent* of devolution in 1979) claimed that schoolchildren were wetting themselves in class because they didn't know how to ask to go to the toilet in Welsh. No actual evidence of this ever emerged, and NK admitted embarrassment over the episode later. Maybe no evidence was ever published but my late wife certainly experienced that when at Primary School in Amlwch. At secondary school in Amlwch much later, they split all classes into those for Welsh speakers and English speakers. My late Father in Law, who was previously head of English at the School, enquired as to how they would teach Science in Welsh. The reply came that they were not actually going to teach Science in Welsh. |
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Post by La Fontaine on Jan 10, 2023 10:20:29 GMT
Neil Kinnock was Labour MP for Bedwellty from 1970 to 1983 and then for Islwyn until his accession to the peerage. Wasn't it until he became an EU Commissioner? I was sent to help in the by-election. We concluded that Islwyn was Welsh for "heavy rain". |
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Post by batman on Jan 10, 2023 11:10:00 GMT
the two were almost at the same time. The peerage was conferred just before he took office as a Commissioner.
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Post by John Chanin on Jan 10, 2023 11:10:33 GMT
Neil Kinnock was Labour MP for Bedwellty from 1970 to 1983 and then for Islwyn until his accession to the peerage. Wasn't it until he became an EU Commissioner? I was sent to help in the by-election. We concluded that Islwyn was Welsh for "heavy rain". In fact you have to go to north Wales for the wettest place in Britain - Capel Curig at 261cm. This just beats mainland USA where the wettest place is Forks on the Olympic Peninsula at 253cm. The difficulty here is how you define ‘place’. Obviously the top of mountains have more rain than the villages at their foot. Of course rainfall is 4 times as much in Hawaii and Kauai, generally reckoned to be the second wettest places in the world after the Meghalayan Hills in eastern India, where one village has clocked up a ridiculous 1180cm. Of course this really belongs in the Useless Facts thread. |
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Post by froome on Jan 11, 2023 8:55:32 GMT
I look forward to a candidate here promising a week’s dry weather! 😁
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Post by andrewp on Jan 16, 2023 14:03:52 GMT
The nomination of Derek Stubbs, one of the Conservative candidates for Biddulph West, seems to have been withdrawn.
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Post by MeirionGwril on Jan 16, 2023 15:05:34 GMT
Pronounced "Bed-vech-ty". Rendered by Private Eye as "Bedwetty". No, it bloody isn't! It's pronounced bed-welh-ty where the lh represents a voiceless alveolar lateral fricative (look it up!) In IPA it's [bɛdˈwɛɬti] |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jan 16, 2023 15:23:30 GMT
Pronounced "Bed-vech-ty". Rendered by Private Eye as "Bedwetty". No, it bloody isn't! It's pronounced bed-welh-ty where the lh represents a voiceless alveolar lateral fricative (look it up!) In IPA it's [bɛdˈwɛɬti] All right Mr Late-to-the-party |
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