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Post by minionofmidas on Sept 26, 2022 16:57:37 GMT
How did M5S get the 3rd seat? Their vote share is 1/3 of the Centre Right and Centre Left lists. I just re-read everything. We don't use de Hondt. We use the quotients methods total number of votes in Europe: 567,493 567493 divided by the number of seats (3): 189,164.3333 Number of votes of PD divided by 189,164.3333=0.94 Number of votes of Right divided by 189,164.3333=0.85 Number of votes of M5S divided by 189,164.3333=0.34 So nobody have full seat (all below 1)...so we get the highest fractions...... Hare. (Strictly speaking, you should probably use the votes for parties above threshold rather than the total number of votes, but a) perhaps no threshold formally applies to the Italians abroad constituencies? b) it's not going to matter on these figures.) You really can't win 2 out of 3 under Hare with such a low percentage, no matter how fractured the opposition. And while you certainly can argue that the M5S candidate doesn't 'deserve' that seat, I find it very hard to see an argument that the 2nd PD+ candidate does. |
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andrea
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Post by andrea on Sept 26, 2022 17:00:49 GMT
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andrea
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Post by andrea on Sept 26, 2022 17:09:32 GMT
I just re-read everything. We don't use de Hondt. We use the quotients methods total number of votes in Europe: 567,493 567493 divided by the number of seats (3): 189,164.3333 Number of votes of PD divided by 189,164.3333=0.94 Number of votes of Right divided by 189,164.3333=0.85 Number of votes of M5S divided by 189,164.3333=0.34 So nobody have full seat (all below 1)...so we get the highest fractions...... Hare. (Strictly speaking, you should probably use the votes for parties above threshold rather than the total number of votes, but a) perhaps no threshold formally applies to the Italians abroad constituencies? b) it's not going to matter on these figures.) You really can't win 2 out of 3 under Hare with such a low percentage, no matter how fractured the opposition. And while you certainly can argue that the M5S candidate doesn't 'deserve' that seat, I find it very hard to see an argument that the 2nd PD+ candidate does. Yes, they are not subjected to national thresholds. |
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Post by rcronald on Sept 26, 2022 17:19:18 GMT
Euromedia September 8th model: Senate CDX - 113 CoD CDX - 235 Actual Results: Senate CDX - 112 CoD CDX - 237 |
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andrea
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Post by andrea on Sept 26, 2022 17:49:23 GMT
Distribution of PR seats now up on ministry website too with details on who got elected.
Camera PR seats
FDI 69
Lega 23
FI 22
PD 57
Green Left 11
M5S 41
Calenda 21
Senate
FDI 34
Lega 13
FI 9
PD 31
Green Left 3
M5S 23
Calenda 9
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Post by rcronald on Sept 26, 2022 18:24:32 GMT
Distribution of PR seats now up on ministry website too with details on who got elected. Camera PR seats FDI 69 Lega 23 FI 22 PD 57 Green Left 11 M5S 41 Calenda 21 Senate FDI 34 Lega 13 FI 9 PD 31 Green Left 3 M5S 23 Calenda 9 So the right has 237 seats after overseas ballots? |
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andrea
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Post by andrea on Sept 26, 2022 19:06:38 GMT
How can you be the far right when you have just won an election? By definition, you are mainstream. far right and mainstream are not mutually exclusive positions. |
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Post by aargauer on Sept 26, 2022 19:07:48 GMT
The difference matters a lot to me because they are often diametrically opposite to each other. Hard Right in economic terms if Thatcherite in UK terms, Far Right is often to the left of the current Labour party, more in tune with Momentum. Hard Right supports free enterprise, and far right supports state direction of the economy. In social terms, the Hard Right is socially conservative, which in practice means they object to every change but never want to reverse them. The far-right wants radical social change, much but by no means all of it to reverse changes The hard right accept democratic norms, probably more so than any other group as they reject direct action, protests, boycotts, all that sort of thing, as being bad-mannered. The far-right reject democratic norms Racial supremacism is the thing of the far right. Cultural supremacism is the thing of the hard right. They are not the same thing. Irredentism is of the far right, not the hard right The Liberal Democrats of Russia are far right The Liberal Democrats of Japan are Hard right Pretty much the difference between me (hard right) and my brother (far right) Sort of the reverse Corbyns. Jeremy only qualifies as hard left with grudgingly working within the system, and Piers with his extremely outlandish theories and behaviour just about makes into far left. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2022 19:15:16 GMT
Out of interest Boogie, how would you have voted in the 1930 German federal election?
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 26, 2022 20:05:02 GMT
Pretty much the difference between me (hard right) and my brother (far right) Sort of the reverse Corbyns. Jeremy only qualifies as hard left with grudgingly working within the system, and Piers with his extremely outlandish theories and behaviour just about makes into far left. Piers has stopped being 'left' at all - he has moved towards the sort of conspiratorial thinking where ideology is irrelevant |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Sept 26, 2022 20:23:04 GMT
Just been for a walk after dinner. Lots of camera crews hanging around Palazzo Chigi. Can’t think why.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Sept 26, 2022 20:27:28 GMT
Out of interest Boogie, how would you have voted in the 1930 German federal election? Dunno. I will go and look it up Surely the Deutsch-Hannoversche Partei |
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Post by chorleyboy on Sept 26, 2022 20:38:03 GMT
Heard an Italian bloke on the radio this morning, saying he did not think the new government would last very long (sic). Is there another European country where this would be said before the votes had even been finished counting? 🤣
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Sept 26, 2022 20:48:43 GMT
Yes probably DVP for me too
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andrea
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Post by andrea on Sept 26, 2022 21:08:06 GMT
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andrea
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Post by andrea on Sept 26, 2022 21:35:02 GMT
MPs elected for Italians Abroad. They still have open lists with preferences.
Senate
North America: Francesca La Marca (PD, Canada). Elected at the House in 2013 and 2018.
South America: Mario Borghese (Italian Associative Movement Abroad, Argentine). Elected at the House in 2013 and 2018.
Europe: Andrea Crisanti (virologist much present on TV during the pandemic. I think he works at the London Imperial College). Newly elected.
Asia-Africa-Oceania: Francesco Giacobbe (PD, Australia). Elected in 2013 and 2018 too.
House
Europe:
Simone Billi (Lega, Switzerland). Incumbent, first elected in 2018.
Federica Onori (M5S, Belgium). Newcomer. She works for the EU Commission.
Toni Ricciardi (PD, Switzerland). Newcomer
North America:
Andrea Di Giuseppe (FDI-Lega-FI, USA). Newcomer.
Christian Diego Di Sanzo (PD, USA). Newcomer
South America:
Fabio Porta (PD, Brazil). Elected at the House in 2008 and re-elected in 2013. He stood at the Senate in 2018, originally declared lost but then won an appeal and served since January 2022.
Franco Tirelli (Italian Associative Movement Abroad, Argentine). Newcomer
Asia-Africa-Oceania: Nicola Carè (PD, Australia). Incumbent, first elected in 2018. He left PD to follow Renzi in 2019 but he went back to PD in 2020)
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Sept 27, 2022 3:24:55 GMT
Can andrea or anyone else provide a link to the rawNumbers and/or % in a workable format (EXCEL or CSV), please? Perfect would be also of former elections. |
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Post by rcronald on Sept 27, 2022 3:51:12 GMT
Pretty much the difference between me (hard right) and my brother (far right) Sort of the reverse Corbyns. Jeremy only qualifies as hard left with grudgingly working within the system, and Piers with his extremely outlandish theories and behaviour just about makes into far left. Me and my brother comparison: Economy: Me - dry with an emphasis on balanced budgets and tilt toward state planning. Brother - populist and a true believer of state capitalism. Society: Me - Small c Con with populist tendencies on things like immigration and reactionary tendencies on things like sovereignty and modesty. Brother - Hardcore reactionary on everything but LGB rights. Democracy: Me - extremely opposed to direct action (but strongly believe in pluralism and freedom of speech for every single person even if he is a neo nazi or a communist), strong believer in the democratic system but mostly in the sense of democratic representation (which is why I tend to defend people like Jezza and Sam Tarry), pluralism and not civil rights and human rights (believe that the definition is way too broad now) and as such would not call myself a liberal Democrat. Brother - supporter of illiberal democracy/electoral autocracy (and the democracy part only because we grew up in a household that treated pluralism and freedom of thought as the most sacred thing of all.) Supremacy: Me - Cultural supremacist on some things, pro-Asian/Jewish/Nigerian on things like education and an extremely proud Jew (even with the piss stain that is American Jewry). Brother - same (from what I know) |
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Post by rcronald on Sept 27, 2022 4:20:58 GMT
The centre-left coalition won 13 FPTP seats out of 147 in the House: Emilia-Romagna - U03 (Reggio nell’Emilia) PDEmilia-Romagna - U05 (Imola) Greens & Left AllianceEmilia-Romagna - U06 (Bologna) PDEmilia-Romagna - U07 (Carpi) PDLazio 1 - U01 (Roma : Municipio i) PDLazio 1 - U04 (Roma : Municipio Vii) PDLiguria - U03 (Genova : Municipio i - Centro Est) PD / èVivaLombardia 1 - U07 (Milano : Nil 20 - Loreto) Civic CommitmentLombardia 1 - U09 (Milano : Nil 21 - Buones Aires - Venezia) +EuropaPiemonte 1 - U01 (Torino : Circoscrizione 2 - Santa Rita - Mirafiori Nord - Mirafiori Sud) +EuropaToscana - U07 (Firenze) PDToscana - U08 (Scandicci) PDVallée d'Aoste VdAMargin of victory Emilia Romagna: Reggio Emilia - 5.96% Imola - 2.55% Bologna - 18.97% Carpi - 0.84% Lazio: Roma : Municipio 1 - 7.7% Roma : Municipio 7 - 0.37% Liguria: Genova : Municipio i - Centro Est - 0.62% Lombardia: Milano : Nil 20 - Loreto - 3.06% Milano : Nil 21 - Buones Aires - Venezia - 7.48% Piemonte: Torino : Circoscrizione 2 - Santa Rita - Mirafiori Nord - Mirafiori Sud - 8.6% Toscana: Firenze - 15.72% Scandicci - 9.92% |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 27, 2022 6:36:59 GMT
Yes probably DVP for me too A historian once said that Weimar died when Stresemann died. |
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