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Post by devolutionist on Jun 24, 2022 17:07:00 GMT
What's the name of the chap in Northern Ireland that Jayda Fransen hangs around with? I can't remember. Jim Dowson |
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Post by devolutionist on Jun 24, 2022 17:20:42 GMT
They looked a bit cheesed off to be honest, I was there. Well, yes, but they are going to have to get used to it if they want to achieve their aims - more seats via targeting and electoral reform Local Lib Dems have expressed their disappointment today. I notice Tom Gordon is far less than happy. There probably needs to be balance struck when it comes to extent at which they are willing sabotage their own parliamentary campaigns, because it could have a knock on effect with local elections and endeavours to increase the local membership and candidate base? Its a hard enough place as it is to be a Lib Dem. (Gordon is Lib Dem group leader on Wakey council, and councillor in Knottingley where they hold all three seats). |
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
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Post by Chris from Brum on Jun 24, 2022 17:46:48 GMT
Well, yes, but they are going to have to get used to it if they want to achieve their aims - more seats via targeting and electoral reform Local Lib Dems have expressed their disappointment today. I notice Tom Gordon is far less than happy. There probably needs to be balance struck when it comes to extent at which they are willing sabotage their own parliamentary campaigns, because it could have a knock on effect with local elections and endeavours to increase the local membership and candidate base? Its a hard enough place as it is to be a Lib Dem. (Gordon is Lib Dem group leader on Wakey council, and councillor in Knottingley where they hold all three seats). Knottingley is in the Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford seat. Appreciate his concern, I'd like to see a minimum level of effort and expenditure each time aimed at retaining our deposit, just to retain local credibility, but those decisions are way above my pay grade, as they say. However, we have evidence that Labour are also prepared to sacrifice a few deposits in the greater cause, so perhaps the bigger picture is more important. |
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Wakefield
Jun 24, 2022 18:02:12 GMT
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Post by aargauer on Jun 24, 2022 18:02:12 GMT
Is it that hard to run two campaigns at the opposite ends of the country at once?
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jun 24, 2022 18:15:30 GMT
Is it that hard to run two campaigns at the opposite ends of the country at once? No. And that also applies to the Labour Party. Is there a formal agreement between Labour and the Lib Dems? No. Is there an informal agreement? No. Do we have a mutual enthusiasm for self destruction? No. |
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Merseymike
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Wakefield
Jun 24, 2022 18:56:26 GMT
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 24, 2022 18:56:26 GMT
Well, yes, but they are going to have to get used to it if they want to achieve their aims - more seats via targeting and electoral reform Local Lib Dems have expressed their disappointment today. I notice Tom Gordon is far less than happy. There probably needs to be balance struck when it comes to extent at which they are willing sabotage their own parliamentary campaigns, because it could have a knock on effect with local elections and endeavours to increase the local membership and candidate base? Its a hard enough place as it is to be a Lib Dem. (Gordon is Lib Dem group leader on Wakey council, and councillor in Knottingley where they hold all three seats). Both Labour and the LibDems are going have to accept reality. Short term pain for the possibility of longer term gain |
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Post by owainsutton on Jun 24, 2022 19:02:04 GMT
Is it that hard to run two campaigns at the opposite ends of the country at once? No. And that also applies to the Labour Party. Is there a formal agreement between Labour and the Lib Dems? No. Is there an informal agreement? No. Do we have a mutual enthusiasm for self destruction? No. This. Reasons for not running a full campaign can be unilateral strategic ones. |
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YL
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Post by YL on Jun 24, 2022 19:23:48 GMT
NIP are being very quiet on twitter, having been very noisy pre-election and proceeding to lose to both Britain First and the Monster Raving Loony Party. Did they actually campaign other than on Twitter? In the recent local elections they stood in my ward, and were actually up against TUSC, even though there was meant to be a pact. They actually did campaign, leafleting much of the ward. They beat TUSC and indeed got more votes in the ward than they did in Wakefield yesterday. |
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Wakefield
Jun 24, 2022 20:54:57 GMT
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Post by devolutionist on Jun 24, 2022 20:54:57 GMT
NIP are being very quiet on twitter, having been very noisy pre-election and proceeding to lose to both Britain First and the Monster Raving Loony Party. Did they actually campaign other than on Twitter? In the recent local elections they stood in my ward, and were actually up against TUSC, even though there was meant to be a pact. They actually did campaign, leafleting much of the ward. They beat TUSC and indeed got more votes in the ward than they did in Wakefield yesterday. One of our members got a NIP business card through the door a few days before polling day. Think they did the free Royal Mail delivery as well. |
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Post by matureleft on Jun 25, 2022 8:02:10 GMT
Local Lib Dems have expressed their disappointment today. I notice Tom Gordon is far less than happy. There probably needs to be balance struck when it comes to extent at which they are willing sabotage their own parliamentary campaigns, because it could have a knock on effect with local elections and endeavours to increase the local membership and candidate base? Its a hard enough place as it is to be a Lib Dem. (Gordon is Lib Dem group leader on Wakey council, and councillor in Knottingley where they hold all three seats). Knottingley is in the Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford seat. Appreciate his concern, I'd like to see a minimum level of effort and expenditure each time aimed at retaining our deposit, just to retain local credibility, but those decisions are way above my pay grade, as they say. However, we have evidence that Labour are also prepared to sacrifice a few deposits in the greater cause, so perhaps the bigger picture is more important. Yup. We’ll see more anger and some resignations. As I’ve commented on the T&H thread we’ve so far seen fairly easy decisions where, even if Labour is second, we aren’t in serious contention and where there is no medium-term strategic gain to be built. And Labour has certainly grasped and owned the greater potential for Tory vote shift to Lib Dems in these circumstances. A General Election will be much harder than pairs of by-elections as national campaigns cover all seats to a degree. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 25, 2022 10:20:05 GMT
Yes, but the number of seats where both Labour and LibDems have a serious chance of winning is still pretty small.
In a way this is fortunate, as that certainly hasn't always been the state of affairs in the past (though intriguingly, it pretty much was in 1997 as well)
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 25, 2022 10:49:14 GMT
Yes, but the number of seats where both Labour and LibDems have a serious chance of winning is still pretty small. In a way this is fortunate, as that certainly hasn't always been the state of affairs in the past (though intriguingly, it pretty much was in 1997 as well) I agree. I think those held by Labour or the LibDems will stay that way as the likely winner is already in situ - can only think of Cambridge, Bermondseay and Sheffield Hallam on the Labour side, and no current LibDem MP's have Labour as a possible challenger. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jun 25, 2022 10:53:16 GMT
Yes, but the number of seats where both Labour and LibDems have a serious chance of winning is still pretty small. In a way this is fortunate, as that certainly hasn't always been the state of affairs in the past (though intriguingly, it pretty much was in 1997 as well) I seem to remember hearing that Brecon and Radnor was actually designated as a Labour target in 1997? |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 25, 2022 10:54:54 GMT
Yes, but the number of seats where both Labour and LibDems have a serious chance of winning is still pretty small. In a way this is fortunate, as that certainly hasn't always been the state of affairs in the past (though intriguingly, it pretty much was in 1997 as well) I seem to remember hearing that Brecon and Radnor was actually designated as a Labour target in 1997? The only one of our "top 100" that we didn't win IIRC. |
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Post by johnloony on Jun 25, 2022 15:07:26 GMT
Yes, but the number of seats where both Labour and LibDems have a serious chance of winning is still pretty small. In a way this is fortunate, as that certainly hasn't always been the state of affairs in the past (though intriguingly, it pretty much was in 1997 as well) I seem to remember hearing that Brecon and Radnor was actually designated as a Labour target in 1997? Yes it was. Brecon & Radnor was a two-way marginal (Lab/Con) from 1945 to 1979. It became a 3-way marginal from the by-election in 1985 onwards. It was only relatively recently that it has become a 2-way marginal (Con/LD). |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Jun 25, 2022 15:27:10 GMT
I seem to remember hearing that Brecon and Radnor was actually designated as a Labour target in 1997? Yes it was. Brecon & Radnor was a two-way marginal (Lab/Con) from 1945 to 1979. It became a 3-way marginal from the by-election in 1985 onwards. It was only relatively recently that it has become a 2-way marginal (Con/LD). Boundary changes in 1983 were significant (removal of Brynmawr and the former Vaynor & Penderyn RD) and greatly damaged Labour prospects - which were also hurt by the same demographic shifts that weakened its position in other rural constituencies in Wales during the same period. |
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Post by batman on Jun 25, 2022 19:42:05 GMT
Yes, but the number of seats where both Labour and LibDems have a serious chance of winning is still pretty small. In a way this is fortunate, as that certainly hasn't always been the state of affairs in the past (though intriguingly, it pretty much was in 1997 as well) I agree. I think those held by Labour or the LibDems will stay that way as the likely winner is already in situ - can only think of Cambridge, Bermondseay and Sheffield Hallam on the Labour side, and no current LibDem MP's have Labour as a possible challenger. Neil Coyle is certainly doing his best to endanger Bermondsey & Old Southwark, or whatever its successor seat is called (it's changed its name at every review for decades) |
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Post by batman on Jun 25, 2022 19:42:45 GMT
I seem to remember hearing that Brecon and Radnor was actually designated as a Labour target in 1997? The only one of our "top 100" that we didn't win IIRC. you are correct, your reverence. |
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Merseymike
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Wakefield
Jun 25, 2022 19:50:40 GMT
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 25, 2022 19:50:40 GMT
I agree. I think those held by Labour or the LibDems will stay that way as the likely winner is already in situ - can only think of Cambridge, Bermondseay and Sheffield Hallam on the Labour side, and no current LibDem MP's have Labour as a possible challenger. Neil Coyle is certainly doing his best to endanger Bermondsey & Old Southwark, or whatever its successor seat is called (it's changed its name at every review for decades) I'm surprised it hasn't been "suggested" that he stands down. |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Jun 25, 2022 20:09:51 GMT
If his suspension from the PLP carries on indefinitely then, of course, that becomes automatic...
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