Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,813 
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jul 25, 2022 7:21:26 GMT
Transfers:   N.B.: I added the perCentages, what can naturally not take into account different electorates & participation. |
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Post by markgoodair on Aug 19, 2022 22:50:53 GMT
How long before Morrison is forced to resign because of his secret portfolio scheme?
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 20, 2022 8:37:00 GMT
How long before Morrison is forced to resign because of his secret portfolio scheme? He still has the confidence of all his former cabinet colleagues, not least because they were all him. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 20, 2022 11:25:28 GMT
Eat your heart out Grant Shapps.
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 20, 2022 11:39:38 GMT
Eat your heart out Grant Shapps. And Michael Green wherever he is these days. |
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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Aug 20, 2022 19:47:40 GMT
Eat your heart out Grant Shapps. And Michael Green wherever he is these days. Corinne Stockheath and Sebastian Fox told me they're feeling left out of this convo... |
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 20, 2022 21:33:37 GMT
And Michael Green wherever he is these days. Corinne Stockheath and Sebastian Fox told me they're feeling left out of this convo... Get real! |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2022 4:01:36 GMT
I’m half hoping we discover Boris has done the same as Morrison, just to see the meltdown that would ensue.
Of course what Morrison did was not ‘unconstitutional’. It wasn’t illegal. It was against convention but then conventions are not hard and fast rules. We’ve seen that here over the past few years (from multiple actors).
The appointments should have been published at the time and the fact they weren’t is in itself suspicious; but the usual hyperbolic reactions of ‘dictatorship!’ or a ‘war against democracy’ are just tiresome.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 21, 2022 11:22:35 GMT
Its the attitude, increasingly prevalent on the right, that rules and laws are just devices of the "elite" to frustrate "the people's will" being expressed. Which maybe wouldn't be so bad if "the people" always didn't seem to comprise just the right's "in" groups.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
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Post by Khunanup on Aug 21, 2022 14:36:13 GMT
I’m half hoping we discover Boris has done the same as Morrison, just to see the meltdown that would ensue. Of course what Morrison did was not ‘unconstitutional’. It wasn’t illegal. It was against convention but then conventions are not hard and fast rules. We’ve seen that here over the past few years (from multiple actors). The appointments should have been published at the time and the fact they weren’t is in itself suspicious; but the usual hyperbolic reactions of ‘dictatorship!’ or a ‘war against democracy’ are just tiresome. This shows the ongoing inherent weakness of Westminster system parliamentary democracies that still hark back to, and as with here and Australia directly are connected to, the system of authoritarian power of The Crown being 'delegated' to the head of the executive drawn from parliament. It really is effectively dictatorial power which is inferred rather than conferred as the process around them is widely governed by convention rather that actual rules and legal constraints. What is more, the so called republics (in reality elected monarchies) with executive presidents have these powers directly conferred upon them so the power ultimately belongs with them anyway. However, the limits of their power and responsibilities are much more often very heavily spelt out by law and it is much more legally clear when they overstep the legal boundaries. Ultimately though, no-one should have such power legally no matter what system is in place. It should be up to the legislature from which the executive is formed and has delegated power from the legislature to perform. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2022 22:46:41 GMT
I’m half hoping we discover Boris has done the same as Morrison, just to see the meltdown that would ensue. Of course what Morrison did was not ‘unconstitutional’. It wasn’t illegal. It was against convention but then conventions are not hard and fast rules. We’ve seen that here over the past few years (from multiple actors). The appointments should have been published at the time and the fact they weren’t is in itself suspicious; but the usual hyperbolic reactions of ‘dictatorship!’ or a ‘war against democracy’ are just tiresome. This shows the ongoing inherent weakness of Westminster system parliamentary democracies that still hark back to, and as with here and Australia directly are connected to, the system of authoritarian power of The Crown being 'delegated' to the head of the executive drawn from parliament. It really is effectively dictatorial power which is inferred rather than conferred as the process around them is widely governed by convention rather that actual rules and legal constraints. What is more, the so called republics (in reality elected monarchies) with executive presidents have these powers directly conferred upon them so the power ultimately belongs with them anyway. However, the limits of their power and responsibilities are much more often very heavily spelt out by law and it is much more legally clear when they overstep the legal boundaries. Ultimately though, no-one should have such power legally no matter what system is in place. It should be up to the legislature from which the executive is formed and has delegated power from the legislature to perform. You mean Royal Prerogative shouldn't exist? Well, I disagree with that. I think the executive needs to the have capabilities to act in some areas without direct legislative approval, ranging from ministerial appointments to the power to declare war. Considering the whole point of a Parliamentary system is that the government only exists and functions if it has the support of the legislature, that is the democratic check. What Morrison did isn't dictatorial. He had the power that any minister at health or energy (or whatever department) had. He could make decisions on planning or contracts without Cabinet approval but he couldn't make any decision within those departments that a secretary of state couldn't make. The government was still reliant on Parliamentary support and approval for legislation. It was still subject to scrutiny for what action it took, and as we saw the voters were perfectly able to kick the government out. As you infer double (or multiple) hatting isn't new to Australia (or here). To hold so many is odd, and as I say to do so secretly is the worrying part. * The nearest comparison is what Robert Menzies did in the early years of WW2. Anyway Australia has a constitution. If it wants to limit the PM to holding just that specific office it surely has that capability. It doesn't have to stop being a Westminster-modelled system to do that. * I joked about Boris doing it but in reality I highly doubt it could be done secretly here. I'm amazed it was kept quiet in Australia. It's not as if Morrison could have done this with absolutely no one else knowing. How would that work? The civil service must be much more disciplined with leaks than it is here. |
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Jan 18, 2023 12:51:09 GMT
General Jim Molan, a Liberal NSW Senator died earlier this week; former Liberal President Michael Kroeger is urging the NSW State Council to appoint Tony Abbott to fill the vacancy.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2023 13:40:52 GMT
Good God why?
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Post by redvers on Jan 18, 2023 14:53:21 GMT
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 18, 2023 17:50:43 GMT
General Jim Molan, a Liberal NSW Senator died earlier this week; former Liberal President Michael Kroeger is urging the NSW State Council to appoint Tony Abbott to fill the vacancy. His daughter, Erin Molan, used to be one of the main presenters of rugby league down under, and was quite often on the feed seen on Sky. |
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Jan 18, 2023 22:05:28 GMT
To quote Mr Kroger: “Whilst this is solely a matter for the NSW division to determine who will be the replacement for the five-year term in the Senate, I believe, there can be no better candidate than former prime minister Tony Abbott,” Mr Kroger said on Wednesday. “Tony Abbott is arguably the most successful opposition leader during my lifetime and his depth of experience would be a major benefit for the new opposition.” Mr Kroger seems to be a regular on Australia’s Sky News election coverage (he was on the panel for both the Federal and Victorian State elections at least) and seems to have a touch of Trumpitis - the voters were “morons”, Albanese was being protected by the “corrupt” Australian Federal Police, and in Victoria the Electoral Commission were Dan Andrew’s “stooges” 🤷🏻♂️ |
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jamie
Top Poster
Posts: 7,054
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Post by jamie on Jan 18, 2023 23:00:24 GMT
Abbott-2019 had one of the largest negative personal votes of all time, to put him back in frontline politics would send a clear signal to the small 'l' liberal voters that their support is not wanted (and its not like he left office popular with the population at large...).
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2023 0:34:52 GMT
Is there some kind of unwritten rule in Australia that every time there's an election one major party has to deliberately and spectacularly blow itself up?
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Jan 19, 2023 6:26:35 GMT
Abbott-2019 had one of the largest negative personal votes of all time, to put him back in frontline politics would send a clear signal to the small 'l' liberal voters that their support is not wanted (and its not like he left office popular with the population at large...). The Australian went on to suggest that no appointment was likely before the State elections as there were some retiring Liberals who could come in to the frame; I suspect they will come under some pressure to nominate a “moderate” given the shellacking they took in and around Sydney at the Federal election, losing “moderates” like Josh Frydenburg, Trent Zimmerman and Dave Sharma. |
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stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,380
Member is Online
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Post by stb12 on Jan 19, 2023 8:26:07 GMT
To be fair the “most successful opposition leader” line probably has some merit in the sense of the landslide election he won in 2013, no-one has come close to that level of victory since anyway
I do remember there being a lot of belief that it was simply because the Labor government had collapsed so spectacularly with infighting and so on and the Coalition winning so easily was more likely in-spite of Abbott
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