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Post by owainsutton on Jun 18, 2022 19:22:44 GMT
The following vacancies in councils that will be abolished next May have had notices of vacancy published (but in two of the cases suspiciously haven't had elections scheduled in the four months since): Barrow-in-Furness: Dalton South. Cause: Resignation of Shaun Blezard (Lab) on 3 February 2022. Cumbria, Dearham & Broughton. Hugo Graham (Conservative) resigned on 3 May. Ryedale: Sherburn. Cause: Resignation of John Raper (Ind) on c. 1 February 2022. Ryedale, Thornton Dale. C W Delaney (Conservative) has resigned. If it's cases where the shadow council taking over next May has already been voted for, I don't find it all that suspicious. Who wants to spend money and effort on a by-election where you are *guaranteed* to be out of office a few months later? |
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Post by casualobserver on Jun 18, 2022 19:25:55 GMT
Yes, but that doesn’t alter the fact that it’s a Unitary! |
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Jun 18, 2022 19:37:31 GMT
The following vacancies in councils that will be abolished next May have had notices of vacancy published (but in two of the cases suspiciously haven't had elections scheduled in the four months since): Barrow-in-Furness: Dalton South. Cause: Resignation of Shaun Blezard (Lab) on 3 February 2022. Cumbria, Dearham & Broughton. Hugo Graham (Conservative) resigned on 3 May. Ryedale: Sherburn. Cause: Resignation of John Raper (Ind) on c. 1 February 2022. Ryedale, Thornton Dale. C W Delaney (Conservative) has resigned. If it's cases where the shadow council taking over next May has already been voted for, I don't find it all that suspicious. Who wants to spend money and effort on a by-election where you are *guaranteed* to be out of office a few months later? Fair enoguh. I can certainly see that none of the parties would be interested - I'm slightly more surprised that there aren't any electors interested (especially in a couple of cases where it leaves the Ward/Division without representation). There have been a couple of the other soon to be abolished councils that have had byelections. |
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YL
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Post by YL on Jun 18, 2022 19:52:23 GMT
Yes, but that doesn’t alter the fact that it’s a Unitary! Legally what you're calling "district unitaries" consist of both a county and a district which are coterminous, and the county has no council. See, for example, the recent Cumbria order: it creates both a county and a district called Cumberland, and then specifies that the county doesn't have a council. The same is true of Rutland (see the order which created it) except that in that case the district already existed, so the order didn't need to create a district as well, it just needed to remove it (and the city of Leicester) from the county Leicestershire. My understanding is that at some point the council renamed the district (but not the county) as "Rutland County Council" so that it could use that name, so there is a county of Rutland which has no council and contains a single district called "Rutland County Council" whose council thus has the full name "Rutland County Council District Council". And yes this is a little ridiculous. |
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Post by casualobserver on Jun 18, 2022 20:19:32 GMT
Yes, but that doesn’t alter the fact that it’s a Unitary! Legally what you're calling "district unitaries" consist of both a county and a district which are coterminous, and the county has no council. See, for example, the recent Cumbria order: it creates both a county and a district called Cumberland, and then specifies that the county doesn't have a council. The same is true of Rutland (see the order which created it) except that in that case the district already existed, so the order didn't need to create a district as well, it just needed to remove it (and the city of Leicester) from the county Leicestershire. My understanding is that at some point the council renamed the district (but not the county) as "Rutland County Council" so that it could use that name, so there is a county of Rutland which has no council and contains a single district called "Rutland County Council" whose council thus has the full name "Rutland County Council District Council". And yes this is a little ridiculous. There is, in the Statutory Instrument which set up the current form of both Rutland and Leicester Councils, absolutely no difference in the structure of the two authorities. Anyone who defines Rutland as being a District Council would need to define Leicester as being a District Council as well. I think there’s real value in using nomenclature clearly to distinguish lower tier non-metropolitan councils from single-tier non-metropolitan councils. |
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Post by greenchristian on Jun 18, 2022 23:17:26 GMT
Yes, but that doesn’t alter the fact that it’s a Unitary! Legally what you're calling "district unitaries" consist of both a county and a district which are coterminous, and the county has no council. See, for example, the recent Cumbria order: it creates both a county and a district called Cumberland, and then specifies that the county doesn't have a council. So this is an entirely different legal definition of county from the ceremonial counties? Because I was previously unaware of the existence of, for example, the county of Southend-on-Sea. |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 18, 2022 23:31:35 GMT
The order that created the unitary Rutland council created it as a district council with no county council, making it a unitary council. The council chose to adopt the name Rutland County Council. As has been noted above, that makes its legal name Rutland County Council District Council.
I believe the other 1990s unitaries are the other way around, for example, The Isle of Wight is a county council with no district councils - created by simply abolishing the districts and the county continued.
The process with the "new" North Yorkshire is odd in that the new unitary already exists before the old council has been abolished, and has a different name, being "North Yorkshire Council".
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YL
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Post by YL on Jun 19, 2022 7:05:06 GMT
So this is an entirely different legal definition of county from the ceremonial counties? Because I was previously unaware of the existence of, for example, the county of Southend-on-Sea. Indeed, this is the use of the word as defined by the 1972 Local Government Act. Of course most people don't really think of Southend as a county, or of Leicester as a county separate from the larger county named after it, so ceremonial counties are closer to the popular idea of a county, but for many purposes that's the legal position. Here's the Essex order: as you can see it removed Southend and Thurrock from the county of Essex, made them separate counties, and said that they wouldn't have a county council. Like Rutland and Leicester, they already existed as districts, so it didn't need to change them, whereas in the Avon order Article 3 created the new districts of B&NES and South Gloucestershire by merging then existing districts, while Article 6 created the new counties and again said they wouldn't have a county council. Woodspring district was renamed "North West Somerset" and immediately changed its name to "North Somerset", but it's not clear when the name of the county changed. Berkshire, just to be different, remains a county but doesn't have a county council, so the six unitaries there are not counties in any sense. The Met counties also still exist without county councils. And then there are the "county unitaries" which were created by abolishing the districts within a county. It's all over the place. |
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Post by John Chanin on Jun 19, 2022 8:23:40 GMT
So this is an entirely different legal definition of county from the ceremonial counties? Because I was previously unaware of the existence of, for example, the county of Southend-on-Sea. Indeed, this is the use of the word as defined by the 1972 Local Government Act. Of course most people don't really think of Southend as a county, or of Leicester as a county separate from the larger county named after it, so ceremonial counties are closer to the popular idea of a county, but for many purposes that's the legal position. Here's the Essex order: as you can see it removed Southend and Thurrock from the county of Essex, made them separate counties, and said that they wouldn't have a county council. Like Rutland and Leicester, they already existed as districts, so it didn't need to change them, whereas in the Avon order Article 3 created the new districts of B&NES and South Gloucestershire by merging then existing districts, while Article 6 created the new counties and again said they wouldn't have a county council. Woodspring district was renamed "North West Somerset" and immediately changed its name to "North Somerset", but it's not clear when the name of the county changed. Berkshire, just to be different, remains a county but doesn't have a county council, so the six unitaries there are not counties in any sense. The Met counties also still exist without county councils. And then there are the "county unitaries" which were created by abolishing the districts within a county. It's all over the place. Yes but none of this matters a jot. There are either two tier administrative arrangements or there are single tier, and that’s it. |
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YL
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Post by YL on Jun 19, 2022 9:01:45 GMT
Indeed, this is the use of the word as defined by the 1972 Local Government Act. Of course most people don't really think of Southend as a county, or of Leicester as a county separate from the larger county named after it, so ceremonial counties are closer to the popular idea of a county, but for many purposes that's the legal position. Here's the Essex order: as you can see it removed Southend and Thurrock from the county of Essex, made them separate counties, and said that they wouldn't have a county council. Like Rutland and Leicester, they already existed as districts, so it didn't need to change them, whereas in the Avon order Article 3 created the new districts of B&NES and South Gloucestershire by merging then existing districts, while Article 6 created the new counties and again said they wouldn't have a county council. Woodspring district was renamed "North West Somerset" and immediately changed its name to "North Somerset", but it's not clear when the name of the county changed. Berkshire, just to be different, remains a county but doesn't have a county council, so the six unitaries there are not counties in any sense. The Met counties also still exist without county councils. And then there are the "county unitaries" which were created by abolishing the districts within a county. It's all over the place. Yes but none of this matters a jot. There are either two tier administrative arrangements or there are single tier, and that’s it. Well, unless you want to explain why Rutland's council is offically called "Rutland County Council District Council", which is where the discussion started... Actually it did matter a bit for the last Parliamentary boundary review. Those unitaries which were officially counties were treated differently from those which weren't; compare the treatment of Nottingham, officially a county in its own right, which rather generously got three seats of its own, to that of Liverpool, which got a cross-border seat because it was treated together with the rest of Merseyside. Some borders of the former were crossed, but the BCE was noticeably more reluctant to, because the law at the time said that county borders shouldn't normally be crossed but didn't mention other types of unitary. |
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Post by owainsutton on Jun 19, 2022 10:22:40 GMT
So this is an entirely different legal definition of county from the ceremonial counties? Because I was previously unaware of the existence of, for example, the county of Southend-on-Sea. Indeed, this is the use of the word as defined by the 1972 Local Government Act. Of course most people don't really think of Southend as a county, or of Leicester as a county separate from the larger county named after it, so ceremonial counties are closer to the popular idea of a county, but for many purposes that's the legal position. Here's the Essex order: as you can see it removed Southend and Thurrock from the county of Essex, made them separate counties, and said that they wouldn't have a county council. Like Rutland and Leicester, they already existed as districts, so it didn't need to change them, whereas in the Avon order Article 3 created the new districts of B&NES and South Gloucestershire by merging then existing districts, while Article 6 created the new counties and again said they wouldn't have a county council. Woodspring district was renamed "North West Somerset" and immediately changed its name to "North Somerset", but it's not clear when the name of the county changed. Berkshire, just to be different, remains a county but doesn't have a county council, so the six unitaries there are not counties in any sense. The Met counties also still exist without county councils. And then there are the "county unitaries" which were created by abolishing the districts within a county. It's all over the place. Hence some clunky combined authority names, because they aren't contiguous with the Met county. Halton isn't in Merseyside County, so it had to be "Liverpool City Region". Whereas the GMCA is contiguous with Greater Manchester County, and so could use the same name. |
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 19, 2022 11:22:04 GMT
Hence some clunky combined authority names, because they aren't contiguous with the Met county. Halton isn't in Merseyside County, so it had to be "Liverpool City Region". Whereas the GMCA is contiguous with Greater Manchester County, and so could use the same name. Though there was a strong view that the Liverpool name needed to be included because it was recognised internationally, hence the name. |
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Post by casualobserver on Jun 19, 2022 22:46:27 GMT
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Jun 19, 2022 22:59:43 GMT
Well she was elected illegally anyway, by-election within the six month rule. |
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Post by yellowperil on Jun 20, 2022 7:51:57 GMT
I’m not sure I remember seeing an uncontested by-election before. When did this last happen (parishes excluded obviously)? Caerphilly. June 2021. According to Mark Pack, the last time a seat changed hands between political parties through an uncontested by-election was 1994. Can anyone confirm that and fill in the details? |
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 20, 2022 7:59:48 GMT
According to Mark Pack, the last time a seat changed hands between political parties through an uncontested by-election was 1994. Can anyone confirm that and fill in the details? Doesn't he know? |
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on Jun 20, 2022 8:09:14 GMT
According to Mark Pack, the last time a seat changed hands between political parties through an uncontested by-election was 1994. Can anyone confirm that and fill in the details? Paging andrewteale. |
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Post by yellowperil on Jun 20, 2022 8:10:08 GMT
According to Mark Pack, the last time a seat changed hands between political parties through an uncontested by-election was 1994. Can anyone confirm that and fill in the details? Doesn't he know? I assume he does, but didn't give chapter and verse on his website, so I was looking to see if anyone from another source could confirm or deny. Preferably from a different political persective. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 20, 2022 8:16:32 GMT
I assume he does, but didn't give chapter and verse on his website, so I was looking to see if anyone from another source could confirm or deny. Preferably from a different political persective. have you got a link to the para? |
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Post by grahammurray on Jun 20, 2022 8:23:55 GMT
According to Mark Pack, the last time a seat changed hands between political parties through an uncontested by-election was 1994. Can anyone confirm that and fill in the details? Paging andrewteale . The Caerphilly one didn't change hands. I just think it's the most recent uncontested by-election. It was Plaid to Plaid. |
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