|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 22, 2023 8:14:36 GMT
Quite frightening, really. It really shows that the scale of the problems the country faces. I have to slightly question the assertion that no-one working in the public sector or who is self-employed is contributing to social spending and social security. But maybe a 44:56 society didn't sound so sexy. I'm not certain on the previous setup at the time when this was written. But it's worth bearing in mind that as well as essentially abolishing income tax, Massa's pre-election turn involved massive extra subsidies for the self-employed. Probably because a huge section aren't paying tax. But clearly there are people who are earning a living, not contributing a penny, but take subsidies from the state. On all manner of goods. And that's before we get onto the prefential peso rates for favoured groups! |
|
|
|
Post by Adam in Stroud on Nov 22, 2023 9:18:10 GMT
I have to slightly question the assertion that no-one working in the public sector or who is self-employed is contributing to social spending and social security. But maybe a 44:56 society didn't sound so sexy. I'm not certain on the previous setup at the time when this was written. But it's worth bearing in mind that as well as essentially abolishing income tax, Massa's pre-election turn involved massive extra subsidies for the self-employed. Probably because a huge section aren't paying tax. But clearly there are people who are earning a living, not contributing a penny, but take subsidies from the state. On all manner of goods. And that's before we get onto the prefential peso rates for favoured groups! That sounds all too plausible, and of course reminiscent of Greece pre-crash. I just query the assumption that private sector employees = good, solid contributors; entire self-employed and public sectors = spongers, (especially as he has a whole separate category of shadow economy). In an economy which is rife with avoidance, I'd be surprised if there weren't scams within the private sector to avoid contributing, unless everyone in that sector is either incredibly altruistic or just naive, while I'd also be surprised if some less clued up people in the other sectors were getting caught. I'm self-employed and a lot of small traders in the UK have no real clue about tax; they are non-graduates doing manual or similar work as sole traders, it's neither in their skill set nor something that they have much time to spare on. It's not really the analysis that most people aren't contributing to a possibly over-generous social welfare system that I question. That seems to be the basis of Peronism. It's more the distinction between sectors within the economy that I'm mildly sceptical about, because it affects the prescription for cure. If, say the public sector really aren't paying any tax and the private sector are, then look at tax avoidance in that sector. But are they really? Do e.g. army officers or middle-ranking civil servants pay no tax at all? It smacks of a small-state ideology (which may or may not be correct) and while I don't know enough about Argentina (anything at all really) to critique it I think it needs substantiating to avoid question-begging. |
|
|
|
Post by rcronald on Nov 22, 2023 9:39:57 GMT
I'm not certain on the previous setup at the time when this was written. But it's worth bearing in mind that as well as essentially abolishing income tax, Massa's pre-election turn involved massive extra subsidies for the self-employed. Probably because a huge section aren't paying tax. But clearly there are people who are earning a living, not contributing a penny, but take subsidies from the state. On all manner of goods. And that's before we get onto the prefential peso rates for favoured groups! That sounds all too plausible, and of course reminiscent of Greece pre-crash. I just query the assumption that private sector employees = good, solid contributors; entire self-employed and public sectors = spongers, (especially as he has a whole separate category of shadow economy). In an economy which is rife with avoidance, I'd be surprised if there weren't scams within the private sector to avoid contributing, unless everyone in that sector is either incredibly altruistic or just naive, while I'd also be surprised if some less clued up people in the other sectors were getting caught. I'm self-employed and a lot of small traders in the UK have no real clue about tax; they are non-graduates doing manual or similar work as sole traders, it's neither in their skill set nor something that they have much time to spare on. It's not really the analysis that most people aren't contributing to a possibly over-generous social welfare system that I question. That seems to be the basis of Peronism. It's more the distinction between sectors within the economy that I'm mildly sceptical about, because it affects the prescription for cure. If, say the public sector really aren't paying any tax and the private sector are, then look at tax avoidance in that sector. But are they really? Do e.g. army officers or middle-ranking civil servants pay no tax at all? It smacks of a small-state ideology (which may or may not be correct) and while I don't know enough about Argentina (anything at all really) to critique it I think it needs substantiating to avoid question-begging. It’s not that the public sector doesn’t pay any tax (at least pre-Massa election campaign), it’s that the Unions in Argentina are ridiculously strong, so many employees (especially the lower ranked ones) are likely receiving more than they are paying. |
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 22, 2023 19:26:42 GMT
Milei has held his first meeting with Alberto Fernandez* at the presidential palace at Quinta de Olivos. Apparently it was fairly cordial (a surprise!) and was mostly a closed session for the pair.
Massa has reportedly attempted to "take a leave of absence", but there are also reports that Fernandez refused this. Not least because it wouldn't look great if he has to pick yet another economy minister to serve out the fag-end of his administration.
*those with long memories might recall that this man is the current president of the Argentine Republic, last seen several months ago.
|
|
|
|
Post by rcronald on Nov 22, 2023 19:33:01 GMT
Milei has held his first meeting with Alberto Fernandez* at the presidential palace at Quinta de Olivos. Apparently it was fairly cordial (a surprise!) and was mostly a closed session for the pair. Massa has reportedly attempted to "take a leave of absence", but there are also reports that Fernandez refused this. Not least because it wouldn't look great if he has to pick yet another economy minister to serve out the fag-end of his administration. *those with long memories might recall that this man is the current president of the Argentine Republic, last seen several months ago. Kinda hilarious how two relatively centrist blokes (Fernandez, and Massa) sold their sold to some far-left lunatic (Kirchner) only for this to nuke their legacy… but I guess that power is power, even if it is only imaginary… |
|
|
|
Post by uthacalthing on Nov 22, 2023 20:56:56 GMT
As with Greece, and to an extent the UK, absolutely everyone has their nose in the trough. There comes a point where you cannot avoid it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 24, 2023 12:47:17 GMT
Luis Caputo, former economy minister under Macri for a period and former Central Bank boss, is the new economy minister. Biden has spoken to Milei. As you'd imagine given Milei's stated beliefs about working with America, it was apparently very friendly, and Biden has offered support where possible to get the economy back on track. And here's a fun article about people desperately trying to make everyone into the new Trump. "Trump of the Pampas" is a new one! Presumably we can expect Wilders as the Trump of the Polders. www.batimes.com.ar/news/opinion-and-analysis/argentinas-javier-milei-is-no-trump-of-the-pampas-analysts-say.phtml |
|
|
|
Post by rcronald on Nov 24, 2023 12:56:26 GMT
Luis Caputo, former economy minister under Macri for a period and former Central Bank boss, is the new economy minister. Biden has spoken to Milei. As you'd imagine given Milei's stated beliefs about working with America, it was apparently very friendly, and Biden has offered support where possible to get the economy back on track. And here's a fun article about people desperately trying to make everyone into the new Trump. "Trump of the Pampas" is a new one! Presumably we can expect Wilders as the Trump of the Polders. www.batimes.com.ar/news/opinion-and-analysis/argentinas-javier-milei-is-no-trump-of-the-pampas-analysts-say.phtml The press seems to think that anyone who happens to support trump or act wild is the ‘trump of’ something. |
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 24, 2023 13:16:45 GMT
Luis Caputo, former economy minister under Macri for a period and former Central Bank boss, is the new economy minister. Biden has spoken to Milei. As you'd imagine given Milei's stated beliefs about working with America, it was apparently very friendly, and Biden has offered support where possible to get the economy back on track. And here's a fun article about people desperately trying to make everyone into the new Trump. "Trump of the Pampas" is a new one! Presumably we can expect Wilders as the Trump of the Polders. www.batimes.com.ar/news/opinion-and-analysis/argentinas-javier-milei-is-no-trump-of-the-pampas-analysts-say.phtml The press seems to think that everyone who happens to support trump or act wild is the ‘trump of’ something. And then they move on, until it's time for the next election. I look forward to them trying to make Friedrich Merz sound like Trump. |
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 25, 2023 13:34:43 GMT
There will be 8 main ministries represented in cabinet, down from 19 under Alberto.
The incoming interior minister is Guillermo Francos. Francos has had quite the career - serving under the "Revolucion Argentina" dictatorship, then under Isabel Peron, going into the background under the junta and Alfonsin, before reappearing under Menem and finally working for Daniel Scioli, who was the Peronist who lost to Macri.
A fairly respected character in both politics and business.
|
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 30, 2023 14:43:31 GMT
In some surprising news, Milei turned up to have lunch with Bill Clinton this week.
|
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Dec 1, 2023 21:13:23 GMT
An eye-catching appointment today. The new Argentine ambassador to the US will be Gerardo Werthein, a member of one of the country's wealthiest families. There's possibly a sign going on here as Werthein is Jewish and the outgoing mob had some questionable views on Judaism and Israel. Argentina has one of the largest Jewish populations on earth.
Elsehwre, Patricia Bullrich is coming back into government.
|
|
|
|
Post by uthacalthing on Dec 2, 2023 12:37:29 GMT
"Far Right President" (copyright BBC/MSM) thumbing his nose at the actual far-right
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
|
Post by The Bishop on Dec 2, 2023 13:41:17 GMT
Would be (genuinely) interested in MSM examples of calling Milei "far right", indeed from the BBC in particular.
|
|
|
|
Post by No Offence Alan on Dec 2, 2023 15:46:52 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by uthacalthing on Dec 2, 2023 21:54:37 GMT
I quite genuinely cannot recall the BBC referring to him as anything but "far right". I actually can't see how this could even be a talking point. It was not once or twice. It was invariable.
|
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Dec 3, 2023 11:39:39 GMT
It was interesting how quickly all these outlets simply stopped reporting on the story.
Although not as interesting as how they simply ignored his opponent. You'd think that any of Massa's electoral bribes, or Fernandez's dubious policies, would be denounced as Dangerous Populism if they were being touted by a European or Anglosphere politician. Not least because they have been!
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
|
Post by The Bishop on Dec 3, 2023 12:09:30 GMT
In my defence, I don't look at BBC stuff that much these days.
At least the NYT qualifies it slightly as "win for the far right" - which could arguably be true even if Milei isn't that way himself.
|
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Dec 3, 2023 12:30:26 GMT
In my defence, I don't look at BBC stuff that much these days. At least the NYT qualifies it slightly as "win for the far right" - which could arguably be true even if Milei isn't that way himself. The other Twitter-as-news line was Tango Trump or whatever nonsense they came up with. Based on lazy journalism and a desperate attempt to make everyone look like the bogeyman of the moment. Of course, that Milei has been speaking in some depth with Biden, Sullivan and Blinken this week hasn't caught enough attention for a follow up article from any of those same outlets. Who haven't bothered anyway. The jamboree will roll on. And not just in the media. I'm amazed that we didn't have someone fingered as Luxembourg Trump. |
|
|
|
Post by uthacalthing on Dec 3, 2023 12:36:31 GMT
In my defence, I don't look at BBC stuff that much these days. At least the NYT qualifies it slightly as "win for the far right" - which could arguably be true even if Milei isn't that way himself. You are offering an almost textbook definition of gaslighting. Oh, that's right, they didn't actually call him far right. In other news. Hamas are delighted at the support they have received from the UK Labour Party led by Sir Keir Starmer. |
|
