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Post by graham on Mar 25, 2024 16:34:08 GMT
Well I will be 70 this summer and still view the 1970s as being just 'a few years ago.' The Berwick upon Tweed by election held in November 1973 was barely 15 months before Thatcher became Tory leader! I have always been blessed with a very good memory but at times it can feel like a curse! The occupational hazard with this sort of thing is that, even though history proceeds at a steady speed, there is - for each individual - a relatively sharp and brief dividing line between the things which we can remember and those we can’t. For me, I started being aware of events in the outside world in about 1974, I started being aware of political events in about 1977, and properly aware of parliamentary by-elections in 1983. Thus anything since 1984 is “recent” and anything before 1974 is “ancient history”. I sometimes have to stop to remind myself that not everybody on this forum will remember the excitement of Bermondsey 1983, or the miners’ strike, or the collapse of communism in 1989-91. Reading or hearing about such events afterwards, no matter how well educated or well-read someone is, is a poor substitute for actually living through the events in real life. I have some recollection of the Berlin Wall being built in mid-1961. Re-British politics I do remember the last few months of Gaitskell's life and the Common Market being a major issue in Autumn 1962. His death in January 1963 I recall vividly and the Labour Leadership election to choose his successor in February. A few months later came the Profumo Affair and the resultant by election at Straford on Avon was the first declaration I saw in a news bulletin. Angus Maude was the new Tory MP with Andrew Faulds the defeated Labour candidate who had managed a 13% swing.
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Post by graham on Mar 25, 2024 16:35:03 GMT
I see the Blackpool South MP - Scott Benton has now resigned his seat!
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Post by batman on Mar 25, 2024 22:29:18 GMT
I'm 64 this coming weekend but I certainly don't think of the 1970s as recent. It seems like a very long time ago to me. I do still have the same grand piano I had from 1976 though. And I doubt I'll ever sell it.
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Post by graham on Mar 25, 2024 23:50:09 GMT
I'm 64 this coming weekend but I certainly don't think of the 1970s as recent. It seems like a very long time ago to me. I do still have the same grand piano I had from 1976 though. And I doubt I'll ever sell it. Well there we are! It is all so subjective. For me, Jim Callaghan singing 'There was I waiting at the church' at the 1978 TUC conference seems like but a few years ago. I have to admit ,though, that seeing the leading figures of the day there - Len Murray - Ray Buckton - David Basnett - Sid Weighell etc - does rather bring it home to me somewhat.
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Post by batman on Mar 26, 2024 4:11:01 GMT
Not many people would remember David Basnett now, he was a rather one dimensional character. Not that Len Murray was exactly Mr Exciting either. I found Ray Buckton surprisingly pleasant when I met him (he spoke to us Labour Students at Cambridge and we entertained him to lunch)
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,753
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 26, 2024 12:34:59 GMT
I vaguely remember Buckton being claimed as a spook after his death in the 1990s.
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 15,347
Member is Online
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 26, 2024 12:58:16 GMT
Not that Len Murray was exactly Mr Exciting either. He was, however, that rarest of things: a prominent figure in public life from Shropshire who managed not to disgrace himself in one way or another.
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Post by uthacalthing on Mar 26, 2024 13:14:12 GMT
Those were the days
Vic Feather. Jack Jones. Joe Gormley. Mick McGahey.
Working-class men with proper working-class monikers.
It began to go wrong with Rodney Bickerstaff.
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Post by johnloony on Mar 26, 2024 17:57:53 GMT
"How is it, under Thatcher, and Tebbit, and Fowler, and the unelected Lord Young, that the only way to make the rich work harder is to give them more money, and the only way to make the poor work harder is to give them less money?" (1985) I saw him outside the church at Tony Benn's funeral, but that was before he barked obvz
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Mar 26, 2024 19:27:20 GMT
"How is it, under Thatcher, and Tebbit, and Fowler, and the unelected Lord Young, that the only way to make the rich work harder is to give them more money, and the only way to make the poor work harder is to give them less money?" (1985) I saw him outside the church at Tony Benn's funeral, but that was before he barked obvz As true today...
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Post by graham on Mar 26, 2024 20:00:06 GMT
I'm 64 this coming weekend but I certainly don't think of the 1970s as recent. It seems like a very long time ago to me. I do still have the same grand piano I had from 1976 though. And I doubt I'll ever sell it. Well there we are! It is all so subjective. For me, Jim Callaghan singing 'There was I waiting at the church' at the 1978 TUC conference seems like but a few years ago. I have to admit ,though, that seeing the leading figures of the day there - Len Murray - Ray Buckton - David Basnett - Sid Weighell etc - does rather bring it home to me somewhat. I have just been taken aback to discover that Len Murray died 20 years ago in May 2004. That does make me feel old! But then it will soon be 30 years since John Smith's untimely death.
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Post by evergreenadam on Mar 26, 2024 21:12:58 GMT
I'm 64 this coming weekend but I certainly don't think of the 1970s as recent. It seems like a very long time ago to me. I do still have the same grand piano I had from 1976 though. And I doubt I'll ever sell it. Well there we are! It is all so subjective. For me, Jim Callaghan singing 'There was I waiting at the church' at the 1978 TUC conference seems like but a few years ago. I have to admit ,though, that seeing the leading figures of the day there - Len Murray - Ray Buckton - David Basnett - Sid Weighell etc - does rather bring it home to me somewhat. I can’t imagine any PM trying to sing in a speech now. Too risky.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,691
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Post by J.G.Harston on Mar 26, 2024 23:17:24 GMT
Well there we are! It is all so subjective. For me, Jim Callaghan singing 'There was I waiting at the church' at the 1978 TUC conference seems like but a few years ago. I have to admit ,though, that seeing the leading figures of the day there - Len Murray - Ray Buckton - David Basnett - Sid Weighell etc - does rather bring it home to me somewhat. I have just been taken aback to discover that Len Murray died 20 years ago in May 2004. That does make me feel old! But then it will soon be 30 years since John Smith's untimely death. What? 2004 is 20 years ago? When did that happen?
I can't get used to it being longer since I was a Sheffield councillor than I was actually a Sheffield councillor. It still feels like that's my identity, and I can't get used to looking through the list of Sheffield councillors and there being so many unfamiliar names, the strangeness reinforced by those names that are ones that were there when I was.
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Post by johnloony on Mar 27, 2024 1:49:12 GMT
Well there we are! It is all so subjective. For me, Jim Callaghan singing 'There was I waiting at the church' at the 1978 TUC conference seems like but a few years ago. I have to admit ,though, that seeing the leading figures of the day there - Len Murray - Ray Buckton - David Basnett - Sid Weighell etc - does rather bring it home to me somewhat. I can’t imagine any PM trying to sing in a speech now. Too risky. The only bit which Callaghan actually sang was the last line “My wife won’t let me”. The rest, he merely chanted in rhythm but without the tune. But Truss might have been bonkers enough to try
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Post by batman on Mar 27, 2024 5:41:44 GMT
well remembered John, that is correct. It was a bit of an awkward moment nonetheless, the verse is a bit too long to make the gag a good one in a speech
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Post by heslingtonian on Mar 27, 2024 8:11:48 GMT
I can’t imagine any PM trying to sing in a speech now. Too risky. The only bit which Callaghan actually sang was the last line “My wife won’t let me”. The rest, he merely chanted in rhythm but without the tune. But Truss might have been bonkers enough to try Truss could have sung "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to". Also it's not that long ago since we had a Prime Minister dancing like a robot on the Conference stage so who knows what lies ahead.
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 27, 2024 8:33:03 GMT
The only bit which Callaghan actually sang was the last line “My wife won’t let me”. The rest, he merely chanted in rhythm but without the tune. But Truss might have been bonkers enough to try Truss could have sung "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to". Also it's not that long ago since we had a Prime Minister dancing like a robot on the Conference stage so who knows what lies ahead. I remember Peter Lilley - his songs about Britpop and the River Cafe - Blairite stuff. He definitely sung!
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Post by heslingtonian on Mar 27, 2024 9:32:11 GMT
Truss could have sung "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to". Also it's not that long ago since we had a Prime Minister dancing like a robot on the Conference stage so who knows what lies ahead. I remember Peter Lilley - his songs about Britpop and the River Cafe - Blairite stuff. He definitely sung! Didn't he also sing from the Mikado? I think he sang at Conference more than once.
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Post by johnloony on Mar 27, 2024 9:44:25 GMT
"How is it, under Thatcher, and Tebbit, and Fowler, and the unelected Lord Young, that the only way to make the rich work harder is to give them more money, and the only way to make the poor work harder is to give them less money?" (1985) I saw him outside the church at Tony Benn's funeral, but that was before he barked obvz As true today... If you mean “What Bickerstaff was saying (asking) in 1985 is just as relevant or true now”, then it may be “just as”, but it isn’t “true”, obviously. Businesses do not pay bosses more money in order to make them “work harder” but in order to attract, recruit and retain people who have the talent to make important decisions. A company director or factory manager who is good enough, can make a decision which makes a difference of tens of millions of pounds of profit or loss. If he can restructure or rationalise production, or improve the technical specifications of the product, that is not because he has worked an extra few hours a week; it is because he has an intelligent mind with the proper technical and managerial qualifications. If a working-class labourer is paid less, it is not to make him “work harder” but to safeguard the company and the workforce from losses and redundancies which would otherwise follow from inefficiency and unproduction. But of course most people understand this already because most normal people (except for a few eccentric miserable lefties) have read Corelli Barnett and Milton Friedman.
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Post by johnloony on Mar 27, 2024 9:45:50 GMT
Well there we are! It is all so subjective. For me, Jim Callaghan singing 'There was I waiting at the church' at the 1978 TUC conference seems like but a few years ago. I have to admit ,though, that seeing the leading figures of the day there - Len Murray - Ray Buckton - David Basnett - Sid Weighell etc - does rather bring it home to me somewhat. I have just been taken aback to discover that Len Murray died 20 years ago in May 2004. That does make me feel old! But then it will soon be 30 years since John Smith's untimely death. If you had asked me when Len Murray died, without looking it up I would have guessed more like 30 or 35 years ago rather than 20. This week I am now older than John Smith was when he died. Last month I was older than Henry VIII.
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