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Post by Arthur Figgis on Nov 26, 2021 17:26:53 GMT
That's a very concerning figure. Democracy seems to be in a bad state in this part of Halton. I think everything's in a bad state in that part of Halton.. Just that part? |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 26, 2021 17:47:19 GMT
I spent a year after University as a youth worker at a church in Widnes. There seemed to be nothing in the town except for rugby league. I've not often felt like going back. The local Lib Dems weren't very active either. They took targeting to something of an illogical conclusion. They only ran candidates in two wards, both of which they won. Isn't Widnes the posh half of Halton?  |
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Post by batman on Nov 26, 2021 17:48:39 GMT
well every single Labour Party worker who did anything could claim that. I've never worked in such a close election before. My previous record was 6 votes, when we failed to gain East Chesterton ward in Cambridge from the Conservatives in 1980. The Tory hold prevented Labour from gaining an outright majority, too, but Labour had 21 seats plus the Mayoralty, so did have effective control anyway. I was personally acquainted with 4 King's students who failed to vote, too - although of course it is definitely not a student ward. Did you give those 4 students a dressing down? yes, I did. The only 2 residents in that house who did vote included someone who is very prominent now and of whom I was very fond at the time! |
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Post by greenhert on Nov 26, 2021 18:30:00 GMT
The result in Lancaster is interesting given that Carnforth still has quite an "old Labour" character - the sort of place that might be swinging to the Tories majorly if it was in the Midlands (as could be seen in yesterday's results) It was the token "Labour stronghold" back in the day when Morecambe/Lunesdale was safe Tory. And probably back when the Morecambe-based constituency was Morecambe & Lonsdale (1950 to 1983) and not Morecambe & Lunesdale (1983-present). |
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 26, 2021 18:34:18 GMT
The result in Lancaster is interesting given that Carnforth still has quite an "old Labour" character - the sort of place that might be swinging to the Tories majorly if it was in the Midlands (as could be seen in yesterday's results) It was the token "Labour stronghold" back in the day when Morecambe/Lunesdale was safe Tory. And probably back when the Morecambe-based constituency was Morecambe & Lonsdale (1950 to 1983) and not Morecambe & Lunesdale (1983-present). I'm pretty sure Carnforth was in the Lancaster constituency from 1950-83? |
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,901
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Post by Tony Otim on Nov 26, 2021 18:52:02 GMT
Talking about Lancaster, it would take a much smaller swing against for the Conservatives to lose both seats in Lancaster they are defending next week.
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Post by owainsutton on Nov 26, 2021 18:53:18 GMT
That's a very concerning figure. Democracy seems to be in a bad state in this part of Halton. 22% in that ward in May. Sadly, half even of that was pretty much what I was expecting. |
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timmullen1
Labour
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Posts: 11,823 
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Post by timmullen1 on Nov 26, 2021 19:03:37 GMT
He also stood, unsuccessfully I think, for the National Executive of the NUM during the Scargill era. is he any relation of Les? I honestly don’t know but I’d say if they were it was fairly distant; without wishing to sound catty, I can’t imagine Derrick graduating from high school let alone Oxford University. |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Nov 26, 2021 19:36:48 GMT
is he any relation of Les? I honestly don’t know but I’d say if they were it was fairly distant; without wishing to sound catty, I can’t imagine Derrick graduating from high school let alone Oxford University. Les is from Worcestershire, from a small village a couple of miles from where I grew up. My parents tended to regard him as a "local boy who made good". |
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
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Post by timmullen1 on Nov 26, 2021 20:04:55 GMT
I honestly don’t know but I’d say if they were it was fairly distant; without wishing to sound catty, I can’t imagine Derrick graduating from high school let alone Oxford University. Les is from Worcestershire, from a small village a couple of miles from where I grew up. My parents tended to regard him as a "local boy who made good". AFAIK Derrick is a Knutton man, but he was detaching himself from the Labour Party as I was getting involved, and my links with Newcastle are a bit more recent as people like Gareth Snell and Tom Reynolds finally managed to get some joint working between the City and the Borough parties. |
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Post by greenhert on Nov 26, 2021 20:37:35 GMT
And probably back when the Morecambe-based constituency was Morecambe & Lonsdale (1950 to 1983) and not Morecambe & Lunesdale (1983-present). I'm pretty sure Carnforth was in the Lancaster constituency from 1950-83? It was, actually, back when the town of Carnforth was a district in its own right. Carnforth was moved to Morecambe & Lunesdale in 1983. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 26, 2021 22:12:14 GMT
The result in Lancaster is interesting given that Carnforth still has quite an "old Labour" character - the sort of place that might be swinging to the Tories majorly if it was in the Midlands (as could be seen in yesterday's results) It was the token "Labour stronghold" back in the day when Morecambe/Lunesdale was safe Tory. Add it to the list of railway towns where the railway workers (and, perhaps more significantly, the organisational capacity of their union branches) once formed a significant core vote which is no longer there. |
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 26, 2021 22:14:00 GMT
OK, so this is Bury St Edmunds constituency rather than West Suffolk and looking at the map of the ward it is a load of villages on the outskirts of the city - the map looks to me like an identikit map: www.andrewteale.me.uk/misc/w-suffolk-horringer.webpWhat's almost odder about the Tory collapse here is that it was Labour and not the Lib Dems that hoovered up the votes here. Not really, they're barely present in that part of the world. I don't think that anything is 'going on' in long term political terms. That is a very stolid and conservative area. But in local politics in Suffolk it can often be quite personal, community and relationship based. When I lived in that area I was an officer in the Conservative party for a while and yet twice voted 'away' in my own village because I liked and respected an independent and disliked our man (who was another officer in the party and a very strident Mason). This result is what it is and is probably a portent of nothing at all. |
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 26, 2021 22:27:47 GMT
That's a very concerning figure. Democracy seems to be in a bad state in this part of Halton. Democracy (such as it is and has always been here) is usually in a poor state everywhere in Britain. In places like this people just don't see the point and don't think it will make a difference to them whoever wins or doesn't win and that their vote is of no consequence at all; and to a larger extent than one cares to admit, are they wrong? I often wonder. |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Nov 26, 2021 22:44:19 GMT
That's a very concerning figure. Democracy seems to be in a bad state in this part of Halton. Democracy (such as it is and has always been here) is usually in a poor state everywhere in Britain. In places like this people just don't see the point and don't think it will make a difference to them whoever wins or doesn't win and that their vote is of no consequence at all; and to a larger extent than one cares to admit, are they wrong? I often wonder. Well, a lot of that is down to the council tax freezes and caps imposed by central government. It is easy to cast all parties as the same if they are not actually allowed to differ on such an important issue as the funding of local services. |
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 26, 2021 22:52:31 GMT
Democracy (such as it is and has always been here) is usually in a poor state everywhere in Britain. In places like this people just don't see the point and don't think it will make a difference to them whoever wins or doesn't win and that their vote is of no consequence at all; and to a larger extent than one cares to admit, are they wrong? I often wonder. Well, a lot of that is down to the council tax freezes and caps imposed by central government. It is easy to cast all parties as the same if they are not actually allowed to differ on such an important issue as the funding of local services. I don't disagree with that. |
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Post by andrew111 on Nov 27, 2021 1:23:25 GMT
That's a very concerning figure. Democracy seems to be in a bad state in this part of Halton. Democracy (such as it is and has always been here) is usually in a poor state everywhere in Britain. In places like this people just don't see the point and don't think it will make a difference to them whoever wins or doesn't win and that their vote is of no consequence at all; and to a larger extent than one cares to admit, are they wrong? I often wonder. I welcome your conversion to PR Carlton! |
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Nov 27, 2021 7:03:14 GMT
Democracy (such as it is and has always been here) is usually in a poor state everywhere in Britain. In places like this people just don't see the point and don't think it will make a difference to them whoever wins or doesn't win and that their vote is of no consequence at all; and to a larger extent than one cares to admit, are they wrong? I often wonder. I welcome your conversion to PR Carlton! He hasn't, he won't. The reality is people don't trust ANY of the political parties because once in power they know the parties are all the same and will do what is best for party not the voters. You can thank selfish politicians locally and the big two parties, the SNP, Irish parties and Nick Clegg nationally for solidifying this impression. Wiggle room for local politicians, left by national politicians, may be part of it, but their regular inept unlistening cronyism at a local factoe is also a factor. I'm not going to say you agree with what I have just written but to me it is the cause, all parties not listening and acting in their own interests for so long that nobody trusts them and bothers voting now. I expect the next general election turnout to be way down, to Labour's disadvantage more than others. The politicians don't care and won't change, democracy is in long term degeneration as we slide away from liberalism and listening toward authoritarianism and impositions whether people like it or not. |
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Post by yellowperil on Nov 27, 2021 7:17:53 GMT
The result in Lancaster is interesting given that Carnforth still has quite an "old Labour" character - the sort of place that might be swinging to the Tories majorly if it was in the Midlands (as could be seen in yesterday's results) It was the token "Labour stronghold" back in the day when Morecambe/Lunesdale was safe Tory. Add it to the list of railway towns where the railway workers (and, perhaps more significantly, the organisational capacity of their union branches) once formed a significant core vote which is no longer there. More strongly in some railway towns than others ( was there a north/south divide?). It was there in Ashford, for example, but never that decisive. Eastleigh? Swindon? Newton Abbott? |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
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Post by The Bishop on Nov 27, 2021 10:16:38 GMT
Pretty good night for the Conservatives all things considered. They did well in all the right places. They did less well in either places they'd never win or in safe areas they probably won't lose at a general election. One of their worst results (certainly Labour's best) was in a Tory marginal seat (Morecambe) They already have a massive majority in Nuneaton. |
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