johnloony
Conservative
Posts: 24,557
Member is Online
|
Post by johnloony on Nov 26, 2021 13:03:02 GMT
I was sure he was, he quit the Party over Kinnock’s refusal to back Scargill, but as nobody, including Andrew in his Previews, had mentioned it, I didn’t trust my memory. I think he was a dual Borough/County councillor for Labour. A journey from supporting Scargill to supporting Johnson is an . . . interesting . . . direction of travel.  Andrew Pelling went from Thatcher to Corbyn |
|
|
|
Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 26, 2021 13:10:33 GMT
You missed out that Derrick Huckfield (the Conservative victor here) was also a Labour Cllr for this very ward for many years too (as well as a Caring Party/Old Labour/UKIP/Newcastle Independent Cllr) Change Party?? Knutton your life! |
|
right
Conservative
Posts: 18,777
|
Post by right on Nov 26, 2021 13:43:16 GMT
I was sure he was, he quit the Party over Kinnock’s refusal to back Scargill, but as nobody, including Andrew in his Previews, had mentioned it, I didn’t trust my memory. I think he was a dual Borough/County councillor for Labour. A journey from supporting Scargill to supporting Johnson is an . . . interesting . . . direction of travel. The red wall may be a fuzzy concept - but it's real |
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Nov 26, 2021 13:46:42 GMT
The red wall may be a fuzzy concept - but it's real "If you can think of a concept, then therefore it must be real" is one of the more ludicrous philosophical attempts to prove the existence of god. |
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
|
Post by The Bishop on Nov 26, 2021 13:48:25 GMT
The result in Lancaster is interesting given that Carnforth still has quite an "old Labour" character - the sort of place that might be swinging to the Tories majorly if it was in the Midlands (as could be seen in yesterday's results) It was the token "Labour stronghold" back in the day when Morecambe/Lunesdale was safe Tory.
|
|
|
|
Post by yellowperil on Nov 26, 2021 13:53:04 GMT
On a decent night for the Tories that looks even worse. Any idea what's going on in West Suffolk? Is this Hancock's constituency? OK, so this is Bury St Edmunds constituency rather than West Suffolk and looking at the map of the ward it is a load of villages on the outskirts of the city - the map looks to me like an identikit map: www.andrewteale.me.uk/misc/w-suffolk-horringer.webpWhat's almost odder about the Tory collapse here is that it was Labour and not the Lib Dems that hoovered up the votes here.Up to a point Lord Copper. Given that the Lib Dems were starting from zero it would not have been particularly surprising, but if you look the LibDem vote share increase was double that of Labour. What is probably true is that if the Tories had faced a single united opposition candidate (whoever it was)they would really have been in trouble. |
|
|
|
Post by greenchristian on Nov 26, 2021 14:04:52 GMT
The red wall may be a fuzzy concept - but it's real "If you can think of a concept, then therefore it must be real" is one of the more ludicrous philosophical attempts to prove the existence of god. Are you sure that's what the argument you're thinking of actually says? It sounds like a strawman rephrasing of the ontological argument. The ontological argument is definitely one of the weaker philosophical arguments for God's existence, but it certainly isn't saying that God must exist just because we can conceive of him. |
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Nov 26, 2021 14:17:01 GMT
Yes, it's known as "the ontological argument", and while it's a paraphrase of it, I don't think it's entirely unfair.
Most of the non-believers who concentrate on philosophical/theological arguments tend to regard it as their favourite argument for the existence of god, because it's really fun to take apart.
|
|
|
|
Post by yellowperil on Nov 26, 2021 14:20:06 GMT
I’m not sure that statement is factually correct, I see lots of falling Tory vote shares from yesterday’s results. On Middleenglander's figures, and taking last time fought, it is 6 vote share increase and 6 decrease. Of course the six increases includes the one they actually lost overall (Tunbridge Wells). |
|
|
|
Post by andrewp on Nov 26, 2021 14:38:42 GMT
I’m not sure that statement is factually correct, I see lots of falling Tory vote shares from yesterday’s results. On Middleenglander's figures, and taking last time fought, it is 6 vote share increase and 6 decrease. Of course the six increases includes the one they actually lost overall (Tunbridge Wells). And the six decreases include one of the gains ( Nuneaton) |
|
|
|
Post by phil156 on Nov 26, 2021 14:43:50 GMT
FINAL RESULT
Hambleton DC - Raskelf & White Horse Ward
CON HOLD
Con 288
LD 127
Grn 102
Turnout 18.73%
|
|
batman
Labour
Posts: 12,399 
Member is Online
|
Post by batman on Nov 26, 2021 15:29:41 GMT
Depends against which previous election it is measured. if Iain Dale says something, it's rarely going to be unchallenged in terms of its being right. Sorry Iain. |
|
|
|
Post by middleenglander on Nov 26, 2021 15:54:30 GMT
Depends against which previous election it is measured. if Iain Dale says something, it's rarely going to be unchallenged in terms of its being right. Sorry Iain. At the time of the tweet the Hambleton result (Conservative down 2.9%) had not been announced. Also I do not believe the Halton result was on Britain Elects. So there were 10 results with 9 showing a Conservative increase in share as a result of the way Britain Elects reports - against when the particular seat was contested and in multi-member seats the "top" candidate. |
|
|
|
Post by greenchristian on Nov 26, 2021 16:27:57 GMT
Yes, it's known as "the ontological argument", and while it's a paraphrase of it, I don't think it's entirely unfair. Most of the non-believers who concentrate on philosophical/theological arguments tend to regard it as their favourite argument for the existence of god, because it's really fun to take apart. Yes, it really is unfair. The core concept of the ontological argument is that the specific properties of God mean that if He exists then He has to exist in every possible world, because if He didn't then He would lack those properties. I'm not convinced that you can get from that core to the actual existence of God, since you have to establish that it is definitely possible that God exists (which is why I agree with you that it's a weak argument). But nobody who actually advocates the argument would agree that your characterisation of it as "God exists because I can conceive of Him" is fair. And if you're describing any argument in a way that nobody who advocates it would think is a fair characterisation then you are, by definition, straw-manning it |
|
batman
Labour
Posts: 12,399
Member is Online
|
Post by batman on Nov 26, 2021 16:28:46 GMT
re Iain Dale, That's fair, but he has a reputation for inaccuracy which is hardly unjustified.
|
|
|
|
Post by owainsutton on Nov 26, 2021 16:34:07 GMT
On a decent night for the Tories that looks even worse. Any idea what's going on in West Suffolk? Is this Hancock's constituency? OK, so this is Bury St Edmunds constituency rather than West Suffolk and looking at the map of the ward it is a load of villages on the outskirts of the city - the map looks to me like an identikit map: www.andrewteale.me.uk/misc/w-suffolk-horringer.webpWhat's almost odder about the Tory collapse here is that it was Labour and not the Lib Dems that hoovered up the votes here. Not really, they're barely present in that part of the world. |
|
|
|
Post by finsobruce on Nov 26, 2021 16:56:00 GMT
A journey from supporting Scargill to supporting Johnson is an . . . interesting . . . direction of travel. He also stood, unsuccessfully I think, for the National Executive of the NUM during the Scargill era. is he any relation of Les? |
|
|
|
Post by Pete Whitehead on Nov 26, 2021 17:17:10 GMT
That's a very concerning figure. Democracy seems to be in a bad state in this part of Halton. I think everything's in a bad state in that part of Halton.. |
|
iang
Lib Dem
Posts: 1,814
|
Post by iang on Nov 26, 2021 17:24:04 GMT
I spent a year after University as a youth worker at a church in Widnes. There seemed to be nothing in the town except for rugby league. I've not often felt like going back. The local Lib Dems weren't very active either. They took targeting to something of an illogical conclusion. They only ran candidates in two wards, both of which they won.
|
|
|
|
Post by John Chanin on Nov 26, 2021 17:24:54 GMT
That's a very concerning figure. Democracy seems to be in a bad state in this part of Halton. There’s nothing new about low turnouts at by-elections in safe seats in winter. There won’t have been any campaigning or get out the vote activity. |
|
