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Post by swanarcadian on Oct 15, 2021 15:22:39 GMT
Maybe it'll be uncontested. Well, Tracy Brabin had plenty of opponents in 2016. They just didn’t get many votes.. |
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Oct 15, 2021 15:52:00 GMT
Maybe it'll be uncontested. We’ll never see an uncontested parliamentary election. There’ll always be someone to challenge. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2021 16:02:42 GMT
It'll be interesting to see if the other major parties follow the 2016 precedent of not standing where the vacancy was caused by the murder of the previous member. They should in my opinion. See, in my opinion it was wrong then and it would be wrong now. But for one to go unopposed by major parties and the other not to would probably be worse |
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peterl
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Post by peterl on Oct 15, 2021 16:21:37 GMT
Personally I think other parties should be free to stand if they wish. If we are a democracy, we act like a democracy. Otherwise the terrorists win.
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Oct 15, 2021 16:24:24 GMT
Presumably this thread can in due course be merged with the one in the "main" section with the same title discussing the same thing? Or better still, the one in the "main" section locked for being in the wrong section, with people directed to this thread. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2021 16:38:24 GMT
I said at the time that it was wrong for the Tories and LibDems to stand down after Jo Cox's death, and I think it would be equally wrong to do so now. The killing of an MP is an assault on democracy and the right response is to make sure democracy continues - all it did was offer every far-right nutter a platform they could only dream of. I don't see how an essentially uncontested by-election serves the constituents, our democracy or the MP's memory. It would have been better to have a properly contested by-election with an unspoken agreement to avoid personal attacks or negative campaigning in an effort to raise the tone.
That said, a precedent appears to have been set and it would be far far worse for parties to stand down for one and not the other and would look especially callous if Labour were to stand a candidate so the major parties don't really have much of a choice
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 15, 2021 16:40:11 GMT
Personally I think other parties should be free to stand if they wish. If we are a democracy, we act like a democracy. Otherwise the terrorists win. To an extent, and I'm not speculating on motive in this case, but hypothetically if it's an anti-government act, and the government loses a by election, an election that should never have taken place, then they also get what they want. |
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Oct 15, 2021 16:41:59 GMT
I would personally prefer it to be contested given we are a democracy (and its hardly likely that the Conservatives would be under threat given the circumstances and over 30% majority anyways) but the Jo Cox precedent will presumably mean it will be seen as unacceptable for mainstream parties to contest by-elections like this these days.
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WJ
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Post by WJ on Oct 15, 2021 16:45:33 GMT
Unless some Tory high command made statements about hoping for a contest. It's a safe seat that would be unlikely to flip under any electoral circumstance, so they would have no need to worry loosing the seat, while also helping to break the precedent.
A bit early though for all of this.
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Post by AdminSTB on Oct 15, 2021 17:26:51 GMT
The thread on this topic on the General Politics board has been merged to here.
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Oct 15, 2021 17:29:28 GMT
I'm not a fan of not contesting seats, but if the main opposing parties were to run paper campaigns in the seat that would be better.
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Post by markgoodair on Oct 15, 2021 17:37:38 GMT
I said at the time that it was wrong for the Tories and LibDems to stand down after Jo Cox's death, and I think it would be equally wrong to do so now. The killing of an MP is an assault on democracy and the right response is to make sure democracy continues - all it did was offer every far-right nutter a platform they could only dream of. I don't see how an essentially uncontested by-election serves the constituents, our democracy or the MP's memory. It would have been better to have a properly contested by-election with an unspoken agreement to avoid personal attacks or negative campaigning in an effort to raise the tone. That said, a precedent appears to have been set and it would be far far worse for parties to stand down for one and not the other and would look especially callous if Labour were to stand a candidate so the major parties don't really have much of a choice When Ian Gower was murdered by the IRA the subsequent by-election was contested by both Labour and the Liberal Democrats. |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Oct 15, 2021 17:44:49 GMT
I said at the time that it was wrong for the Tories and LibDems to stand down after Jo Cox's death, and I think it would be equally wrong to do so now. The killing of an MP is an assault on democracy and the right response is to make sure democracy continues - all it did was offer every far-right nutter a platform they could only dream of. I don't see how an essentially uncontested by-election serves the constituents, our democracy or the MP's memory. It would have been better to have a properly contested by-election with an unspoken agreement to avoid personal attacks or negative campaigning in an effort to raise the tone. That said, a precedent appears to have been set and it would be far far worse for parties to stand down for one and not the other and would look especially callous if Labour were to stand a candidate so the major parties don't really have much of a choice When Ian Gower was murdered by the IRA the subsequent by-election was contested by both Labour and the Liberal Democrats. , not Gower. |
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Post by johnloony on Oct 15, 2021 18:19:35 GMT
I would hope and expect that the upcoming by-election will not be contested by opposition parties. I know it wasn’t in Jo Cox’s case but a couple of by-elections where Tory MPs got killed by the IRA were fully contested. I don’t know the context then of course or how controversial it was or not. In Eastbourne in 1990, the Conservative campaign tried to make an issue of it and some people said that the colour of the MP’s party should not be changed by the IRA. This attitude was regarded by contempt by the voters, who made their own choice in electing a Lib Dem. In all other by-elections caused by murder, the cause of the by-election was just not an issue in the campaign at all, and the campaigning was done normally. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 15, 2021 18:30:43 GMT
Personally I think other parties should be free to stand if they wish. If we are a democracy, we act like a democracy. Otherwise the terrorists win. Any party obviously is free to stand and nobody has suggested that they shouldn't be. The only discussion is about how they should exercise that freedom. I also agree with your last point, though I believe we still don't know the motive of the murderer in this case, I can't see how this situation is any different to the murder of Jo Cox. As I say I thought the decision by the Conservatives, Lib Dems, UKIP etc to decline to fight Batley & Spen was wrong but a precedent has been set. It is going to leave the Lib Dems in particular open to obvious charges of hypocrisy and cynicism here if they do decide to stand here given that precedent and I'd be intrigued to see the mental gymnastics they perform in order to give a reason for doing so (other than the real one which is that they'd fancy their chances in an area of considerable historic strength) |
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islington
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Post by islington on Oct 15, 2021 19:30:24 GMT
Personally I think other parties should be free to stand if they wish. If we are a democracy, we act like a democracy. Otherwise the terrorists win. Any party obviously is free to stand and nobody has suggested that they shouldn't be. The only discussion is about how they should exercise that freedom. I also agree with your last point, though I believe we still don't know the motive of the murderer in this case, I can't see how this situation is any different to the murder of Jo Cox. As I say I thought the decision by the Conservatives, Lib Dems, UKIP etc to decline to fight Batley & Spen was wrong but a precedent has been set. It is going to leave the Lib Dems in particular open to obvious charges of hypocrisy and cynicism here if they do decide to stand here given that precedent and I'd be intrigued to see the mental gymnastics they perform in order to give a reason for doing so (other than the real one which is that they'd fancy their chances in an area of considerable historic strength) I can understand the reasons for not contesting Batley after the murder of Jo Cox but I thought then, and still think, that it was wrong and it set a bad precedent.
The Tories would be doing democracy a favour if they announced that they will, naturally, be putting up a candidate and that they expect other parties to do the same in the usual way. The best memorial to a murdered politician is to show that democracy goes on as usual.
I am not saying, of course, that this is what I expect to happen.
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iain
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Post by iain on Oct 15, 2021 19:35:07 GMT
Personally I think other parties should be free to stand if they wish. If we are a democracy, we act like a democracy. Otherwise the terrorists win. Any party obviously is free to stand and nobody has suggested that they shouldn't be. The only discussion is about how they should exercise that freedom. I also agree with your last point, though I believe we still don't know the motive of the murderer in this case, I can't see how this situation is any different to the murder of Jo Cox. As I say I thought the decision by the Conservatives, Lib Dems, UKIP etc to decline to fight Batley & Spen was wrong but a precedent has been set. It is going to leave the Lib Dems in particular open to obvious charges of hypocrisy and cynicism here if they do decide to stand here given that precedent and I'd be intrigued to see the mental gymnastics they perform in order to give a reason for doing so (other than the real one which is that they'd fancy their chances in an area of considerable historic strength) I mean the real reason either way is that we are bounced into things by the bigger parties. Once May had said the Tories wouldn’t contest Batley & Spen, we had to. Likewise, on this one, we will be all but forced to follow along with whatever Labour do. Edit: and I don’t think anyone but the most deluded optimist would think we have any chance in this seat. |
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Post by greenhert on Oct 15, 2021 19:43:38 GMT
Maybe it'll be uncontested. We’ll never see an uncontested parliamentary election. There’ll always be someone to challenge. The last time a UK parliamentary by-election was uncontested was 1954, in Armagh, Northern Ireland (1946 in Hemsworth in mainland Britain). |
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Post by andrew111 on Oct 15, 2021 20:03:25 GMT
Personally I think other parties should be free to stand if they wish. If we are a democracy, we act like a democracy. Otherwise the terrorists win. Any party obviously is free to stand and nobody has suggested that they shouldn't be. The only discussion is about how they should exercise that freedom. I also agree with your last point, though I believe we still don't know the motive of the murderer in this case, I can't see how this situation is any different to the murder of Jo Cox. As I say I thought the decision by the Conservatives, Lib Dems, UKIP etc to decline to fight Batley & Spen was wrong but a precedent has been set. It is going to leave the Lib Dems in particular open to obvious charges of hypocrisy and cynicism here if they do decide to stand here given that precedent and I'd be intrigued to see the mental gymnastics they perform in order to give a reason for doing so (other than the real one which is that they'd fancy their chances in an area of considerable historic strength) I agree with what you say in general but not sure why you single out the Lib Dems rather than Labour. Surely after the free run in Batley and Spen the Labour Party would catch the hypocrisy accusations first, and if they did stand the smaller Parties would not get much criticism in comparison if they followed them. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 15, 2021 20:17:23 GMT
Any party obviously is free to stand and nobody has suggested that they shouldn't be. The only discussion is about how they should exercise that freedom. I also agree with your last point, though I believe we still don't know the motive of the murderer in this case, I can't see how this situation is any different to the murder of Jo Cox. As I say I thought the decision by the Conservatives, Lib Dems, UKIP etc to decline to fight Batley & Spen was wrong but a precedent has been set. It is going to leave the Lib Dems in particular open to obvious charges of hypocrisy and cynicism here if they do decide to stand here given that precedent and I'd be intrigued to see the mental gymnastics they perform in order to give a reason for doing so (other than the real one which is that they'd fancy their chances in an area of considerable historic strength) I agree with what you say in general but not sure why you single out the Lib Dems rather than Labour. Surely after the free run in Batley and Spen the Labour Party would catch the hypocrisy accusations first, and if they did stand the smaller Parties would not get much criticism in comparison if they followed them. I think it would be a bad look for Labour given they 'benefited' from the other main parties standing aside in Batley (though I've no doubt they would have won easily regardless). The reason I singled out the Lib Dems is that my initial response was to a member of that party and seccondly because they are in the position of having stood aside in the previous similar situation whereas Labour are not - therefore hypocrisy may not be the right word, but it would certainly be a glaring inconsistency which would not apply to Labour. I take iain's point that the Lib Dems were bounced into that position by the Conservatives having stood side first, but I'm afraid the genie is out of the bottle. I don't like it and I wish they hadn't done that but I think that's going to be the situation from now on |
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