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Post by grahammurray on Oct 7, 2021 22:07:33 GMT
So did the entire county want a devolved metro mayor? I have no idea, but that wasn’t the original question. The question was asking for an example of where the government has imposed a directly elected mayor on a local authority when it has been explicitly rejected in a referendum (or abolished one without a referendum), and that is not the case in Manchester. Utter pedantry. And to the list you can add Leeds, Bradford, Wakefield, Sheffield, Birmingham and Coventry. They all rejected one but still got one. |
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823 
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 7, 2021 22:08:30 GMT
Does anyone know whether all of these are counting tonight? Waverley has promised to Tweet updates and their result (@waverleybc), and our own Terry Weldon said upthread he’d be at the count, so will hopefully update as soon as he’s able. Everybody else seems to be in Twitter purdah. |
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 7, 2021 22:15:42 GMT
We in Stoke had a referendum to have a Mayor and then had a referendum not to have a Mayor (and they whinged about us wanting a second Brexit referendum, ungrateful buggers). If anything that’s the exact opposite of the original question. Having a referendum at every change and that result being carried out. I know, that was the point - although given the fact the second referendum was held on the very earliest day allowed under the law, and I could now campaign for a third referendum (there are some advocating that) does suggest you could have an endless procession of systems being repeatedly changed by extremely low turnout referendums. |
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Post by minionofmidas on Oct 7, 2021 22:18:40 GMT
So did the entire county want a devolved metro mayor? I have no idea, but that wasn’t the original question. The question was asking for an example of where the government has imposed a directly elected mayor on a local authority when it has been explicitly rejected in a referendum (or abolished one without a referendum), and that is not the case in Manchester. I also hear that the UK is still independent despite Scotland voting against it! But if you'll go back you'll realize that that was not, in fact, the original question. This was: The longstanding tradition where local voters have participated in a referendum on whether to have a Mayor is surely for the govt to impose the opposite of what people wanted? Nothing about specific authority boundaries. Though I have to wonder... by the logic of that post, does that mean a yes vote by Croydon today leads to the abolution of the Greater London mayoralty? |
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Toylyyev
Mebyon Kernow
CJ Fox avatar
Posts: 1,067
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Post by Toylyyev on Oct 7, 2021 22:18:55 GMT
Does anyone know whether all of these are counting tonight? Waverley has promised to Tweet updates and their result (@waverleybc), and our own Terry Weldon said upthread he’d be at the count, so will hopefully update as soon as he’s able. Everybody else seems to be in Twitter purdah. |
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Terry Weldon
Lib Dem
Councilor, Waverley BC and Haslemere TC. Lifelong liberal, in S Africa and now UK
Posts: 307
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Post by Terry Weldon on Oct 7, 2021 22:22:47 GMT
Waverley:
Returning officer Tom Horwood just announced:
Cranleigh turnout 31%.
Haslemere NP referendum turnout 21%
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 7, 2021 22:25:39 GMT
RUSHCLIFFE Musters (L Dem resigned)
PRICE, Victoria Marie (Liberal Democrat) 557
CHAPLAIN, Julie Elizabeth (Labour) 353
COE, Paul Frederick (Conservative) 320
E. 3,427
BPs 1,231
Spoled 1
T'out 36%
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Post by carlton43 on Oct 7, 2021 22:25:54 GMT
Does anyone know whether all of these are counting tonight? Are You Counting Tonight? Will You Miss It Tonight? Are You Sorry We Counted Apart? Does Your Memory Stray To A Bright Lockdown Day? When I Cancelled the Poll and You All Fell Apart? |
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Post by evergreenadam on Oct 7, 2021 22:33:49 GMT
RUSHCLIFFE Musters (L Dem resigned) PRICE, Victoria Marie (Liberal Democrat) 557 CHAPLAIN, Julie Elizabeth (Labour) 353 COE, Paul Frederick (Conservative) 320 E. 3,427 BPs 1,231 Spoled 1 T'out 36% First time the Tories have been pushed into third place in that ward. |
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ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,098
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Post by ilerda on Oct 7, 2021 22:37:24 GMT
I have no idea, but that wasn’t the original question. The question was asking for an example of where the government has imposed a directly elected mayor on a local authority when it has been explicitly rejected in a referendum (or abolished one without a referendum), and that is not the case in Manchester. Utter pedantry. And to the list you can add Leeds, Bradford, Wakefield, Sheffield, Birmingham and Coventry. They all rejected one but still got one. I prefer to think of it as paying attention to the details. Those being the things that actually make something understandable, and correct. |
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Post by andrewp on Oct 7, 2021 22:37:35 GMT
RUSHCLIFFE Musters (L Dem resigned) PRICE, Victoria Marie (Liberal Democrat) 557 CHAPLAIN, Julie Elizabeth (Labour) 353 COE, Paul Frederick (Conservative) 320 E. 3,427 BPs 1,231 Spoled 1 T'out 36% First time the Tories have been pushed into third place in that ward. Although with an increased share LD 45.4% (-11.3) Lab 28.6% (+8.8) Con 26% (+2.5) |
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ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,098
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Post by ilerda on Oct 7, 2021 22:40:53 GMT
I have no idea, but that wasn’t the original question. The question was asking for an example of where the government has imposed a directly elected mayor on a local authority when it has been explicitly rejected in a referendum (or abolished one without a referendum), and that is not the case in Manchester. I also hear that the UK is still independent despite Scotland voting against it! But if you'll go back you'll realize that that was not, in fact, the original question. This was: The longstanding tradition where local voters have participated in a referendum on whether to have a Mayor is surely for the govt to impose the opposite of what people wanted? Nothing about specific authority boundaries. Though I have to wonder... by the logic of that post, does that mean a yes vote by Croydon today leads to the abolution of the Greater London mayoralty? The original question I was referring to was: “And what authority was given a mayor against a referendum? Or in our case had the mayor taken away despite the referendum?” To which the answer was given: “Manchester”. Which as I have shown is incorrect. And your point about Croydon is simply reinforcing my own: that metro mayors and local authority mayors are entirely different and referendums about one have zero relevance to the other. |
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Post by grahammurray on Oct 7, 2021 22:46:51 GMT
I also hear that the UK is still independent despite Scotland voting against it! But if you'll go back you'll realize that that was not, in fact, the original question. This was: Nothing about specific authority boundaries. Though I have to wonder... by the logic of that post, does that mean a yes vote by Croydon today leads to the abolution of the Greater London mayoralty? The original question I was referring to was: “And what authority was given a mayor against a referendum? Or in our case had the mayor taken away despite the referendum?” To which the answer was given: “Manchester”. Which as I have shown is incorrect. And your point about Croydon is simply reinforcing my own: that metro mayors and local authority mayors are entirely different and referendums about one have zero relevance to the other. You have not shown it is incorrect. |
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Terry Weldon
Lib Dem
Councilor, Waverley BC and Haslemere TC. Lifelong liberal, in S Africa and now UK
Posts: 307
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Post by Terry Weldon on Oct 7, 2021 22:57:42 GMT
Cranleigh East-
LibDem 903
CON 686
Convincing win for Phillip Townsend
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Post by andrew111 on Oct 7, 2021 23:02:41 GMT
Kirklees, Leeds and Wakefield, for a start I am not aware of any directly elected mayors for any of those cities or boroughs. All three of those boroughs now have participated in an election for a Mayor. Therefore they have a Mayor.
All three of those boroughs rejected the idea of having an elected Mayor by large majorities in referendums. No further referendums have been held regarding a Mayor for West Yorkshire - that Mayor has been imposed without consultation.
Since the much narrower Brexit referendum has been interpreted by the Tories as rejection of membership of the Single Market, I think I am perfectly entitled to interpret the Mayoral referendums as rejection of the concept of an elected Mayor in general. And as we know, such decisions last for generations, apparently
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 7, 2021 23:07:12 GMT
SOMERSET Comeytrowe and Trull (L Dem died)
JOHNSON, Dawn Elaine (Liberal Democrat) 1,677
HARMON, Ruth (Conservative) 886
McGUFFIE, Michael Charles (Labour) 92
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Post by Robert Waller on Oct 7, 2021 23:07:21 GMT
Cranleigh East- LibDem 903 CON 686 Convincing win for Phillip Townsend I make that LD 56.8% C 43.2% By the way, I do like the idea of a Rushcliffe Munster ward in Middleenglander's table above ... |
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peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
Posts: 8,473
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Post by peterl on Oct 7, 2021 23:09:15 GMT
SOMERSET Comeytrowe and Trull (L Dem died) JOHNSON, Dawn Elaine (Liberal Democrat) 1,677 HARMON, Ruth (Conservative) 886 McGUFFIE, Michael Charles (Labour) 92 I make that LD 63.16% Con 33.37% Lab 3.47% |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 7, 2021 23:09:26 GMT
The Penyffordd result, but in a form that's of limited use
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 7, 2021 23:10:18 GMT
If we assume it's alphabetical, that would make the result like this:
FLINTSHIRE Penyffordd (New Ind resigned)
IBBOTSON, Alasdair James Fraser (Labour) 437
SAXON, Steve (Independent) 286
RANSOME, Pat (Independent) 283
WAKELAM, Roy Alan (Independent) 163
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