US Presidential Race 2016

[Adam in Stroud]

Jan 2, 2017 0:32:14 GMT Richard Allen said:

The problem with these jokes is that the US has just elected a big government liberal (using the modern America meaning) as President.

It is getting increasingly tricky to know what anyone means by "liberal". John Gray seems to include in it almost anyone who believes in capitalism, lumping together pretty much everyone from Ed Milliband to Margaret Thatcher as if that makes some sort of coherent political movement. Possibly called the "People I don't Agree With" Party.

[neilm]

Jan 2, 2017 23:07:10 GMT Adam in Stroud said:

Jan 2, 2017 0:32:14 GMT Richard Allen said:

The problem with these jokes is that the US has just elected a big government liberal (using the modern America meaning) as President.

It is getting increasingly tricky to know what anyone means by "liberal". John Gray seems to include in it almost anyone who believes in capitalism, lumping together pretty much everyone from Ed Milliband to Margaret Thatcher as if that makes some sort of coherent political movement. Possibly called the "People I don't Agree With" Party.

I've just Googled John Gray, not having heard of him before. He seems like the kind of person who wouldn't have lasted long in the Cultural Revolution, or Cambodia in the 1970s.

I describe myself as a liberal (despite Davıd Boothroyd once- correctly- suggesting Henry Addington was likely my favourite Home Secretary) but because we often see things through an economic window, people see me as a rightwinger. However, an American conservative of my acquaintance thinks I'm basically a pinko commie. The definition of liberal- whilst very clear to me- is definitely a 'through a glass, darkly' issue, especially for our cousins across the pond.

[Deleted]

Jan 3, 2017 0:27:57 GMT neilm said:

Jan 2, 2017 23:07:10 GMT Adam in Stroud said:

It is getting increasingly tricky to know what anyone means by "liberal". John Gray seems to include in it almost anyone who believes in capitalism, lumping together pretty much everyone from Ed Milliband to Margaret Thatcher as if that makes some sort of coherent political movement. Possibly called the "People I don't Agree With" Party.

I've just Googled John Gray, not having heard of him before. He seems like the kind of person who wouldn't have lasted long in the Cultural Revolution, or Cambodia in the 1970s.

I describe myself as a liberal (despite Davıd Boothroyd once- correctly- suggesting Henry Addington was likely my favourite Home Secretary) but because we often see things through an economic window, people see me as a rightwinger. However, an American conservative of my acquaintance thinks I'm basically a pinko commie. The definition of liberal- whilst very clear to me- is definitely a 'through a glass, darkly' issue, especially for our cousins across the pond.

I think you are a pinko commie but take advantage of cheap pints at the Conservative Club

[Adam in Stroud]

Jan 3, 2017 0:27:57 GMT neilm said:

I've just Googled John Gray, not having heard of him before. He seems like the kind of person who wouldn't have lasted long in the Cultural Revolution, or Cambodia in the 1970s.

I describe myself as a liberal (despite Davıd Boothroyd once- correctly- suggesting Henry Addington was likely my favourite Home Secretary) but because we often see things through an economic window, people see me as a rightwinger. However, an American conservative of my acquaintance thinks I'm basically a pinko commie. The definition of liberal- whilst very clear to me- is definitely a 'through a glass, darkly' issue, especially for our cousins across the pond.

FWIW I've always had you down as a liberal Conservative.

I don't really think it is that hard to define "liberal" so long as we allow for a broad-ish church, just as we should for conservative.  Just now there's a trend of opinion (mainly on the left, I think,) that has its knickers in a twist about Brexit and rump (and no doubt Le Pen's performance in the forthcoming French elections) and is busy proclaiming the death of Metropolitan Liberal Elitism.  As MLE is supposed to be a bad thing I suppose inevitably people identify it with whatever they dislike most. I daresay a sense of perspective will eventually prevail.

[The Bishop]

Left wingers are doing that largely because such "liberal elitists" tend to endlessly - and often condescendingly - lecture them about "electability".

[nitory]

So I thought it would  be fun to have a look at the numbers in the cities mentioned below and where.. well where it would have actually made a difference.

But there also were millions approved for transfer from Clinton’s campaign for use by the DNC — which, under a plan devised by Brazile to drum up urban turnout out of fear that Trump would win the popular vote while losing the electoral vote, got dumped into Chicago and New Orleans, far from anywhere that would have made a difference in the election.

Detroit	2016	Change from 2012
Clinton Vote	234,868	-46,875
Total  Vote	247,357	-41,276
Flint
Clinton Vote	27,774	-7,856
Total Vote	33,674	-6,462
Saginaw
Clinton Vote	13,536	-3,252
Total Vote	17,961	-2,808
Milwaukee
Clinton Vote	188,700	-39,110
Total Vote	246,609	-40,734
Chicago
Clinton Vote	912943	59,841
Total Vote	1090343	74,709
New Orleans*
Clinton Vote	133,996	7,274
Total Vote	165,812	7,999

*Also likely to have caused the increase in NO is the city is still growing from the post-Katrina low.


Worst campaign ever.

[jamie]

nitory Very much agree with your broader point but to be pedantic I'll add a couple some caveats. Firstly, Detroit is still losing population. Not exactly the right timeframe, but from 2010-2015 it lost 5.1% of its population. Same with Saginaw and very likely Flint over the past year. It's the Mileaukee number which is most frightening since that's a city which actually has had minor population growth. Hopefully everybody in the Clinton campaign who actively sought to avoid spending resources in these states is blacklisted from any future political campaign.

[Richard Allen]

I would have thought that at least one Democratic senator (from a safely blue state) would see this as an opportunity to impress their base.

[timrollpickering]

Back in 2000 no Democrat Senator would come forward to support challenges, mainly from the Congressional Black Caucus. ISTR Obama did support a challenge to one of the contentious results in 2004.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

Obama didn't support the challenge in January 2005; only one Senator, Barbara Boxer, did (see page S56: www.congress.gov/crec/2005/01/06/CREC-2005-01-06.pdf).

The alt-left (to coin a term) are putting forward the proposal that membership of the Electoral College is an office, and therefore caught by the provisions in several state constitutions that no one person may occupy more than one office: www.alternet.org/election-2016/least-50-trump-electors-were-illegitimately-seated-electoral-college-members

I am not convinced that membership of the Electoral College (which means participating in a one-off meeting) does actually constitute any form of office.

[Merseymike]

Its almost worth having Trump in power if it prevents any further new albums from U2.

Almost. But not quite.

[Devil Wincarnate]

Next time you hear "Beautiful Day" by U2, listen out for the bit where he suddenly sings "Touch me!"

With the lyric and tune, I defy you not to then sing "The sun always shines on TV".

[Pete Whitehead]

I know what you're saying but I would sing "How can it be"

[Deleted]

"the Comey effect was real, it was big, and it probably cost Clinton the election. Below, we present four pieces of evidence demonstrating that this is the case."
http://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/1/11/14215930/comey-email-election-clinton-campaign

[Deleted]

Turns out a Western series predicted it all back in 1958. A conman named Trump comes to town and promises to save the citizens from the end of the world by building a wall. 

[finsobruce]

Jan 15, 2017 7:10:02 GMT @odo said:

Turns out a Western series predicted it all back in 1958. A conman named Trump comes to town and promises to save the citizens from the end of the world by building a wall. 

"It's funny how a big lie can make us all kids again".

[mrhell]

The Sunday Herald gives a view on the Trump inauguration.

[Andrew_S]

[john07]

[Arthur Figgis]

Feb 22, 2017 16:26:48 GMT john07 said:

I wonder what R originally stood for.