maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,250
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Post by maxque on Nov 9, 2016 9:25:56 GMT
Certainly amongst certain sections of the online "community", the petty recriminations have started, largely along the lines of "the DNC should've been more supportive of Bernie Sanders" and the likes... Well, obviously Clinton will get blamed for the defeat. A Democrat doesn't lose Pennsylvania and Michigan in a presidential election without consequences.
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Post by dizz on Nov 9, 2016 9:27:19 GMT
[Appears to eat some humble pie before heading off to work ]
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 9:31:31 GMT
Certainly amongst certain sections of the online "community", the petty recriminations have started, largely along the lines of "the DNC should've been more supportive of Bernie Sanders" and the likes... Well, obviously Clinton will get blamed for the defeat. A Democrat doesn't lose Pennsylvania and Michigan in a presidential election without consequences. In the TV coverage Democrats were already openly regretting her "weakness as a candidate". As a "bruised reed" at the end of her career, she's a perfect scapegoat.
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Dan
Animal Welfare Party
Believes we need more localism in our politics
Posts: 813
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Post by Dan on Nov 9, 2016 9:31:56 GMT
This is the biggest shock result since Peter Davies was elected Mayor of Doncaster in 2009 standing for the English Democrats.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 9:32:48 GMT
Certainly amongst certain sections of the online "community", the petty recriminations have started, largely along the lines of "the DNC should've been more supportive of Bernie Sanders" and the likes... Well, obviously Clinton will get blamed for the defeat. A Democrat doesn't lose Pennsylvania and Michigan in a presidential election without consequences. But Clinton had everything going for her, she had all the celebs, most of the media, all the foreign media and even quiet support from the GOP establishment. The Democrat primary was just her against a very left wing opponent. She was a terrible candidate, corrupt, in the hands of the banks and comes across as a robot. 2016 was the year for the under dog and the anti establishment and trump was both.
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maxque
Non-Aligned
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Post by maxque on Nov 9, 2016 9:36:05 GMT
Well, obviously Clinton will get blamed for the defeat. A Democrat doesn't lose Pennsylvania and Michigan in a presidential election without consequences. In the TV coverage Democrats were already openly regretting her "weakness as a candidate". As a bruised reed at the end of her career, she's a perfect scapegoat. Well, she knows the game and the Clinton camp probably did that same maneuver in the past, so she knew if would happen in those circumstances.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 9:37:46 GMT
Well, obviously Clinton will get blamed for the defeat. A Democrat doesn't lose Pennsylvania and Michigan in a presidential election without consequences. But Clinton had everything going for her, she had all the celebs, most of the media, all the foreign media and even quiet support from the GOP establishment. The Democrat primary was just her against a very left wing opponent. She was a terrible candidate, corrupt, in the hands of the banks and comes across as a robot. 2016 was the year for the under dog and the anti establishment and trump was both. What is most remarkable is that Hillary Clinton spent vast sums of money and, by common consent, built the most sophisticated GOTV system in political history. Trump spent hardly anything, and was actively sabotaged in many areas by his own party. With that in mind, the outcome of this election is simply astonishing.
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Nov 9, 2016 9:38:59 GMT
This is the biggest shock result since Peter Davies was elected Mayor of Doncaster in 2009 standing for the English Democrats. Since the Kintbury parish council by-election, you mean?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 9:39:39 GMT
This is the biggest shock result since Peter Davies was elected Mayor of Doncaster in 2009 standing for the English Democrats. You must be sure to pass that on to Donald Trump!
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 9, 2016 9:43:03 GMT
Obviously I'm no fan of Trump. But the identification of American liberalism - and Blairite Labour for that matter - with enthusiasm for globalisation has opened the door for someone who is perceived as coming from outside the political establishment.
Drive around some of the rundown and impoverished small towns of America and it isn't hard to see why people feel resentful. It's different from here though - the immigration issue focuses on illegal immigration and in these small towns it's much more about the things they used to make there now being made in China and shipped over for those still in work to buy cheaply.
I don't think Trump has any cogent alternative but he has identified the operation of globalisation and the international trade setup as a perceived problem. And it's this which really riles people like Blair's former adviser Jonathan Powell - who said as much on Radio 4 this morning.
Clinton was the wrong candidate. Sanders could have challenged the free trade orthodoxy far more cogently. Elizabeth Warren could have done so even better.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 9:44:03 GMT
As I have always stated Lisa Simpson will be the 1st straight female POTUS.
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Post by mrpastelito on Nov 9, 2016 9:46:13 GMT
After 90 minutes of sleep: Wow. Astonishing. A Rust Belt sweep, and 300+ EC votes. I had an inkling but couldn't see him winning more than 279 EC votes. Hell, he almost put Minnesota into play. MINNESOTA!
Happy to see Johnson got 9.3% in NM, and more than 5% in a handful of other states (ND, SD, OK, MT, WY, ME). It's a start.
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Nov 9, 2016 9:48:18 GMT
Spot on throughout this election while Richard Allen was wrong. Indeed I was, although I was hardly alone in that and while I do not wish to make excuses you can only rationally analyse elections on the basis of data. In this case the data that everybody was operating from was clearly flawed. There has not been a single poll this year showing Trump winning Wisconsin, the closest he got was Clinton +3. Of the vast number of polls in Pennsylvania Trump led in only 2, one of those was an obvious outlier from Quinnipaic several months ago and their later polls had Clinton winning while the other was from an overtly biased GOP pollster. Likewise in Michigan only a single poll, again from a notoriously biased partisan pollster had Trump winning. Anybody predicting Trump to win those 3 states (Michigan still hasn't been called) either had access to substantial private polling or was making their prediction on the basis of guesswork or what they wanted to happen.
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Post by mrpastelito on Nov 9, 2016 9:57:38 GMT
Spot on throughout this election while Richard Allen was wrong. Indeed I was, although I was hardly alone in that and while I do not wish to make excuses you can only rationally analyse elections on the basis of data. In this case the data that everybody was operating from was clearly flawed. There has not been a single poll this year showing Trump winning Wisconsin, the closest he got was Clinton +3. Of the vast number of polls in Pennsylvania Trump led in only 2, one of those was an obvious outlier from Quinnipaic several months ago and their later polls had Clinton winning while the other was from an overtly biased GOP pollster. Likewise in Michigan only a single poll, again from a notoriously biased partisan pollster had Trump winning. Anybody predicting Trump to win those 3 states (Michigan still hasn't been called) either had access to substantial private polling or was making their prediction on the basis of guesswork or what they wanted to happen. Well, you may call it guesswork - I call it having a keen sense of the mood in the country. Yes, I'll freely admit even I didn't see Trump possibly winning the entire Rust Belt (I only predicted PA), but it was pretty obvious - at least to me and a couple of other posters on here - that Trump would successfully mobilise non-college left-behind whites, people who probably hadn't bothered to vote since at least 1992, and that Clinton would fail to enthuse Democrat voters in the way Obama or Sanders did. Just because most pollsters and the MSM were too dumb to pick this up that doesn't mean it was impossible to do so.
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Post by dizz on Nov 9, 2016 9:58:39 GMT
Has anyone made the comment that Clinton may win the most votes. I see her making up the 450k with California & absentee. I'm not suggesting it affect the validity of the result mind!
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Nov 9, 2016 10:12:50 GMT
Has anyone made the comment that Clinton may win the most votes. I see her making up the £450k with California & absentee. I'm not suggesting it affect the validity of the result mind! Surely $450k ?
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Post by observer on Nov 9, 2016 10:13:26 GMT
A revolt by the working class against identity politics. It's a second Brexit. Not at all difficult to understand, albeit the political and media class can't understand. That only shows their arrogance. Well done pjones for clearsightedness. Quite a few people around ...some on here...who need to recalibrate their political sensors
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Post by Andrew_S on Nov 9, 2016 10:14:56 GMT
Clinton is absolutely certain to win most votes IMO. Just 0.2% gap now with millions still to come from California.
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,250
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Post by maxque on Nov 9, 2016 10:17:01 GMT
A revolt by the working class against identity politics. Not at all. What was the Mexican rapists comment, but identity politics?
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 9, 2016 10:26:50 GMT
A revolt by the working class against identity politics. It's a second Brexit. Not at all difficult to understand, albeit the political and media class can't understand. That only shows their arrogance. Well done pjones for clearsightedness. Quite a few people around ...some on here...who need to recalibrate their political sensors I think you are transferring your European viewpoint to the US. There has always been a culture war and the Republicans the beneficiary. This is different. People in Pennsylvania who voted for Trump did so because they have no jobs and see the steel they used to make imported from China. Not people bothered about gay marriage or abortion. And they aren't worried about immigrants taking their jobs but their jobs being exported to other countries via globalisation. This really is about the economy - and those who feel they are simply not benefitting from what is going on.
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