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Post by justin124 on Jul 23, 2021 21:14:22 GMT
I can empathise with much of that. I reached the age of 67 earlier this month , and am conscious that this matches what was the UK male life expectancy as late as Spring 1965. By that time Churchill had died, Harold Wilson had been PM for five months - and I was about to sit the 11plus. The downside of being blessed with a very good memory is that quite distant events can still appear as if they happened recently. I do suffer a great deal from lethargy - rather than serious deep depression - but increasingly find myself contemplating those who have already departed rather those who remain here.The sense of having more in common with the former is growing whilst the latter diminishes. I have now reached the point where certain medical treatment options would be rejected were they ever to be suggested.. Hence, no chemotherapy for me and no Wharfarin either. Invitations for Bowel Cancer screening etc have been binned for several years in that I see no point given the decisions I have taken. My wife has just asked me if I feel old. Prompted by watching a programme featuring four of the 1971 Lions tourists. Which was fifty years ago!And I don't. I'm 64, so not much younger than you. Still happy to do the bowel screening - if something showed up then I'd make the treatment decisions then. If warfarin or statins or pretty much anything else was medically indicated, I'd sign up to it. Intense radio or chemotherapy with all the side effects would depend on the prognosis. But I'm certainly not in the extend life at all costs, in all circumstances cast - but does such a cast exist outside some religious zealots? But it proves my point really. It's not about arbitrary age limits; it's about personal circumstances and - importantly - personal choice. EDIT. Just struck me the above isn't ideally structured. I'm not suggesting warfarin and/or statins are cancer treatments! That is fair enough. I already take a low dosage of statins and have no problem doing so in that no negative side effects are expected. Really what I am saying is that at 67 I would not be prepared to tolerate the physical suffering associated with some treatments that I would probably have accepted at 37 - or 47.I have reached an age which - at least until a generation ago - was seen as a reasonable lifespan. |
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Post by listener on Jul 23, 2021 22:55:31 GMT
The result reported above for Tyn-y-Nant (including Middle Englander's calculations) appears to be incorrect. The Labour vote was reported as 411, but the result on the RCT website shows 441.
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Post by rcronald on Jul 24, 2021 3:45:53 GMT
Electoral Calculus (not the most reliable, I know) thinks that Humberstone & Hamilton was one of two wards in Leicester that the Tories carried in the 2019 general election, the other being neighbouring Thurncourt. I don't know Leicester literally at all but it does seem highly likely that the Tory vote in Leicester East would be concentrated in the areas further from the City Centre especially if said area has a large population of people of Indian descent. In light of this, I think a Tory gain here was always going to be fairly likely unless Labour had nominated a popular Hindu community figure. Thurncourt is still a majority White ward and this ward isn't far off. These wards (and Evington) were always the areas which made the Tories competitive here back in the day. The Hindu population was 'only' 21% here in 2011 and it was 15% muslim (compared with over 70% Hindu in Latimer ward - now a byelection there would be interesting). So while shifts in the votes of Hindus will have been a major factor here, it may not have produced a Tory victory if there wasn't already a sizable Tory vote to build on and which is based on the white lower middle class. It should be noted that Latimer technically doesnt exist anymore, If I'm correct it is mostly in the Belgrave ward today which Electoral Calculus says is 2:1 Labour over Tory. |
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Jul 24, 2021 4:31:57 GMT
Misanthropy is an interesting term. I don't believe he hates the human race, or even has contempt for it. There is a difference between that and disagreeing with how current society is organised and its values. There is nothing wrong with questioning keeping people alive. I know YellowPeril wants Eileen to live as long as possible. I do however sometimes wonder if my sister would have been better off dieing in 2012 given all her problems since. That's not to say I don't want her here, but omne wonders if keeping her alive so long is right. At times I also wonder the same about my mum as she is disintegrating to not being herself. I don't think that's misanthropic, in May ways you could say its from love of humans. Just because someone challenges the accepted wisdom of longevity, doesn't make them misanthropic. My feeling, from experience of a grandparent and both parents, is that there's a right time to let go, but it certainly isn't determined by calendar years. It's determined by quality of life. A 68 year old can have a terrible quality of live; a 90 year old can be living the dream. What some of us find difficult is the idea that because the median age at death of a particular condition (in this case Covid) is 82 this somehow justifies writing them off. And, again from personal experience, the idea that the medical profession is obsessed with prolonging life inappropriately is just not the case. When my mother was admitted one night aged around 84 the doctor blithely announced "she's over 80, and she's got a diagnosis of dementia so we won't resuscitate". I put her (the doctor) back in her box; my mother still had a quality of life worth protecting. No, I would not agree to a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate). Three years later I was happy to agree with her GP that intervention would no longer be appropriate. There would be no further trips to A&E, she would slip away peacefully at her care home. That is how it should be done. Agreement between medics and family, in the best interests of the person. Sounds like you've generally had a decent experience with the NHS and doctors. I'm glad for you. You are right it shouldn't come down to calendar years. I agree things should be done by agreement, though in my experience doctors / the system gets it wrong half the time, just like the AA when called out to a car. I actually don't think our views are that much different, maybe just our levels of trust in the system to get it right. |
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Jul 24, 2021 4:36:35 GMT
Mmmm we have a moderator making what I consider near inappropriate posts about a board member here. Maybe said moderator should consider his position as a moderator. Just because one challenges many tenents of human thought one is not necessarily a nihilist per se. Many of our accepted wisdom's of today would have been considered nihilstic a few hundred years ago. People should think very carefully before throwing these words around.
If somebody wishes to "Report" my post I'm sure my fellow Mods will consider it. My reference was to a twitter feed intended to provide amusement. The definition of nihilism in a political and historical context I find is a position "which found nothing to approve of in the established social order" which hardly seems distant from the views expressed by Mike following this by-election, and more broadly. But if he feels it was in any way offensive I'm happy to withdraw. On reflection I was thinking of editing / withdrawing my post, as your post was probably not as bad as I initially thought. Which is probably why I didn't report it. |
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Post by rcronald on Jul 24, 2021 5:38:13 GMT
My feeling, from experience of a grandparent and both parents, is that there's a right time to let go, but it certainly isn't determined by calendar years. It's determined by quality of life. A 68 year old can have a terrible quality of live; a 90 year old can be living the dream. What some of us find difficult is the idea that because the median age at death of a particular condition (in this case Covid) is 82 this somehow justifies writing them off. And, again from personal experience, the idea that the medical profession is obsessed with prolonging life inappropriately is just not the case. When my mother was admitted one night aged around 84 the doctor blithely announced "she's over 80, and she's got a diagnosis of dementia so we won't resuscitate". I put her (the doctor) back in her box; my mother still had a quality of life worth protecting. No, I would not agree to a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate). Three years later I was happy to agree with her GP that intervention would no longer be appropriate. There would be no further trips to A&E, she would slip away peacefully at her care home. That is how it should be done. Agreement between medics and family, in the best interests of the person. Sounds like you've generally had a decent experience with the NHS and doctors. I'm glad for you. You are right it shouldn't come down to calendar years. I agree things should be done by agreement, though in my experience doctors / the system gets it wrong half the time, just like the AA when called out to a car. I actually don't think our views are that much different, maybe just our levels of trust in the system to get it right. As someone with experience in both the NHS & the Israeli Health care system (due to my chronic kidney issues and transplant), I think people will be shocked to learn that in my experience is that NHS staff are sloppy and almost amateur and the Hospitals are dirty. One of the reasons I am seriously considering to remain in Israel permnently is that I actually trust the staff to not give me a medication that I am alergic to and to not go on strike everytime someone annoys them! |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jul 24, 2021 8:44:06 GMT
Sounds like you've generally had a decent experience with the NHS and doctors. I'm glad for you. You are right it shouldn't come down to calendar years. I agree things should be done by agreement, though in my experience doctors / the system gets it wrong half the time, just like the AA when called out to a car. I actually don't think our views are that much different, maybe just our levels of trust in the system to get it right. As someone with experience in both the NHS & the Israeli Health care system (due to my chronic kidney issues and transplant), I think people will be shocked to learn that in my experience is that NHS staff are sloppy and almost amateur and the Hospitals are dirty. One of the reasons I am seriously considering to remain in Israel permnently is that I actually trust the staff to not give me a medication that I am alergic to and to not go on strike everytime someone annoys them!Not really the experience most of us have had with the NHS tbh. |
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 24, 2021 9:08:26 GMT
I tend to presume the topic will soon turn to railway stations and/or puns. Well, we are a Motley Crewe on here, so who knows? But, you need to be trained up for this sort of thing lest the comments become pointless and one gets sidelined and then sees a need to make things turn out better and to have no truck with old buffers railing on about keeping on track and the young deciding to no platform them as the debate becomes derailed in obscurity. |
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 24, 2021 9:27:57 GMT
And? That doesn't make it any better! Not better, but unremarkable.. And not related to recent events Local politics for the main part attracts no attention because the really big decisions and the money side is all decided further (not farther!) up the food chain. So a quarter of us don't think it matters much but still tend to vote. Another quarter don't think it matters at all and never vote. The majority don't know it is on and if they did don't care at all. That is not democracy. It is a mixture of contempt with oblivion. |
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Post by rcronald on Jul 24, 2021 9:41:34 GMT
As someone with experience in both the NHS & the Israeli Health care system (due to my chronic kidney issues and transplant), I think people will be shocked to learn that in my experience is that NHS staff are sloppy and almost amateur and the Hospitals are dirty. One of the reasons I am seriously considering to remain in Israel permnently is that I actually trust the staff to not give me a medication that I am alergic to and to not go on strike everytime someone annoys them!Not really the experience most of us have had with the NHS tbh. I am emotionally scared by the NHS for 2 reasons. 1.My transplant was delayed by the doctors strike (dialysis is a nightmare I won’t wish anybody to go through) 2.I was accidentally given a medication that I was extremely allergic to and almost died because of it 4 years ago. (I told them a couple of minutes before I was allergic to the specific drug family) |
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Post by andrewteale on Jul 24, 2021 10:09:56 GMT
Thurncourt is still a majority White ward and this ward isn't far off. These wards (and Evington) were always the areas which made the Tories competitive here back in the day. The Hindu population was 'only' 21% here in 2011 and it was 15% muslim (compared with over 70% Hindu in Latimer ward - now a byelection there would be interesting). So while shifts in the votes of Hindus will have been a major factor here, it may not have produced a Tory victory if there wasn't already a sizable Tory vote to build on and which is based on the white lower middle class. It should be noted that Latimer technically doesnt exist anymore, If I'm correct it is mostly in the Belgrave ward today which Electoral Calculus says is 2:1 Labour over Tory. There was a by-election in Belgrave ward in December 2018 where Labour polled 87% of the vote and had a majority of over 5,000. The local elections five months later had Lab 72 C 15. Turnout on both occasions was very high - 43% for the by-election and 56% for the ordinary election. I agree that a poll there now would be interesting. I regret that there was an error in my preview for the Liscard ward: candidate Bergin was nominated by the For Britain Movement, not Reform UK as I stated. The next Preview will include an apology to Reform UK. |
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Post by andrew111 on Jul 24, 2021 11:26:17 GMT
Not really the experience most of us have had with the NHS tbh. I am emotionally scared by the NHS for 2 reasons. 1.My transplant was delayed by the doctors strike (dialysis is a nightmare I won’t wish anybody to go through) 2.I was accidentally given a medication that I was extremely allergic to and almost died because of it 4 years ago. (I told them a couple of minutes before I was allergic to the specific drug family) My ex wife is very allergic to all penicillin related antibiotics. She was in hospital waiting for gall bladder surgery and about 4 am she noticed a nurse putting something in her drip. Asking what it was it turned out to be one of the antibiotics warned about by the bracelet they had put on her wrist earlier that day. We complained, got lots of grovelling apologies, and a senior surgeon promising to do the operation himself (which went fine). In my personal experience from friends and family the NHS muddles through with minor but 100% avoidable gripes 50% of the time, does brilliantly about 20% of the time, and makes things worse about 30% of the time. We even tried taking them to court once, (waste of £4k. The pointy end of wood screws pointing out into flesh after a bunion operation is "perfectly normal" according to the ranks-closing expert witness) and another time to the ombudsman after misdiagnosis of my son's badly torn shoulder ligaments as a broken collarbone. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jul 24, 2021 11:49:36 GMT
My feeling, from experience of a grandparent and both parents, is that there's a right time to let go, but it certainly isn't determined by calendar years. It's determined by quality of life. A 68 year old can have a terrible quality of live; a 90 year old can be living the dream. What some of us find difficult is the idea that because the median age at death of a particular condition (in this case Covid) is 82 this somehow justifies writing them off. And, again from personal experience, the idea that the medical profession is obsessed with prolonging life inappropriately is just not the case. When my mother was admitted one night aged around 84 the doctor blithely announced "she's over 80, and she's got a diagnosis of dementia so we won't resuscitate". I put her (the doctor) back in her box; my mother still had a quality of life worth protecting. No, I would not agree to a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate). Three years later I was happy to agree with her GP that intervention would no longer be appropriate. There would be no further trips to A&E, she would slip away peacefully at her care home. That is how it should be done. Agreement between medics and family, in the best interests of the person. I'm glad for you. You are right it shouldn't come down to calendar years. I agree things should be done by agreement, though in my experience doctors / the system gets it wrong half the time, just like the AA when called out to a car. I actually don't think our views are that much different, maybe just our levels of trust in the system to get it right. It's been very patchy. GPs were good; hospital was poor. Specifically, in this context, the "announcement" (it wasn't a question or suggestion or advice) that my mother would be DNR. If I hadn't been there to challenge would my mother have still been alive in the morning had something happened? And that's before we mention the medication mislaid (on three consecutive admissions), the lack of understanding of dementia, or the faked patient records . . . |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jul 24, 2021 11:55:43 GMT
I am emotionally scared by the NHS for 2 reasons. 1.My transplant was delayed by the doctors strike (dialysis is a nightmare I won’t wish anybody to go through) 2.I was accidentally given a medication that I was extremely allergic to and almost died because of it 4 years ago. (I told them a couple of minutes before I was allergic to the specific drug family) My ex wife is very allergic to all penicillin related antibiotics. She was in hospital waiting for gall bladder surgery and about 4 am she noticed a nurse putting something in her drip. Asking what it was it turned out to be one of the antibiotics warned about by the bracelet they had put on her wrist earlier that day. We complained, got lots of grovelling apologies, and a senior surgeon promising to do the operation himself (which went fine). In my personal experience from friends and family the NHS muddles through with minor but 100% avoidable gripes 50% of the time, does brilliantly about 20% of the time, and makes things worse about 30% of the time. We even tried taking them to court once, (waste of £4k. The pointy end of wood screws pointing out into flesh after a bunion operation is "perfectly normal" according to the ranks-closing expert witness) and another time to the ombudsman after misdiagnosis of my son's badly torn shoulder ligaments as a broken collarbone. NHS malpractice survives (partly) because* by the end one is so relieved it's over that raking over past incidents just doesn't appeal. And, yes, I have been guilty of this. *(And also because of the feeling that in the end they'll just throw some lowly overworked nurse under the bus rather than do anything about systemic failures.) |
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Post by rcronald on Jul 24, 2021 12:32:32 GMT
I am emotionally scared by the NHS for 2 reasons. 1.My transplant was delayed by the doctors strike (dialysis is a nightmare I won’t wish anybody to go through) 2.I was accidentally given a medication that I was extremely allergic to and almost died because of it 4 years ago. (I told them a couple of minutes before I was allergic to the specific drug family) My ex wife is very allergic to all penicillin related antibiotics. She was in hospital waiting for gall bladder surgery and about 4 am she noticed a nurse putting something in her drip. Asking what it was it turned out to be one of the antibiotics warned about by the bracelet they had put on her wrist earlier that day. We complained, got lots of grovelling apologies, and a senior surgeon promising to do the operation himself (which went fine). In my personal experience from friends and family the NHS muddles through with minor but 100% avoidable gripes 50% of the time, does brilliantly about 20% of the time, and makes things worse about 30% of the time. We even tried taking them to court once, (waste of £4k. The pointy end of wood screws pointing out into flesh after a bunion operation is "perfectly normal" according to the ranks-closing expert witness) and another time to the ombudsman after misdiagnosis of my son's badly torn shoulder ligaments as a broken collarbone. I am allegic to the Cephalosporin family. I was supposed to have a minor surgery (related to the transplant) and everytime I need to go to surgery I am given preventative medicine against infections that can happen during surgery, and that time they gave me one that was known to be part of that family and to my VEINS and I apperently I started to shout that I was burning, started to get puffy , full of blisters and passed out, Thankfully my Dad run to the nurses as fast as he could and I was saved. I was also not diagnosed with dysplastic Kidneys before birth because my ultrasound was accidentally swapped with someone else's....... |
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Post by listener on Jul 26, 2021 18:18:58 GMT
I don't think there has been any discussion of turnout on this thread. The turnouts in June and July have been very low.
I wonder whether this is caused by social distancing nervousness, summer holiday absences or Labour voters staying at home.
Out of the 34 contested by-elections in June and July, 5 have achieved a turnout below 20% (including three this week), compared with a total of 14 by-elections with a turnout below 20% in the whole of the 2019-20 civic year.
The lowest turnout was Heneage (North East Lincolnshire) (15.2%), followed by Humberstone and Hamilton (Leicester) (16.5%), Bridge (Newark and Sherwood) (17.2%), Cliftonville East (Thanet) (18.4%) and Liscard (Wirral) (18.6%).
Only 4 of the 34 contested by-elections in June and July have achieved a turnout above 30% - North Curry and Ruishton (Somerset West and Taunton) (37.1%), Writtle (Chelmsford)(35.3%), Harlech (Gwynedd) (30.8%) and Penkhull and Stoke (Stioke-on-Trent) (30.6%).
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Post by rhyfelwyr on Jul 28, 2021 14:05:04 GMT
It's not a big day out any longer. Hasn't been for years. Several buses an hour from the 'Fach at the moment as it is. Tory party has no background in the former RBC. I think they only ever had one councillor, and that because Labour forgot their nomination papers and he ended up unopposed. They have had a foothold of sorts in the former Taff-Ely, but even there Ponty and its environs weren't usual Tory territory. You've got to get down to Tonteg and Efail Isaf and places like that to see your RCT Tories. Shy and retiring sorts, they are 
On the first point I think we'll have to agree to disagree. On the second, do you know where Tynant is? I'll give you a clue, not the Rhondda. It's basically touching Cardiff and is further south than Tonteg.
No - it's not 'a big day out' to go to Cardiff. People in Cardiff like to think it is, but it isn't. It's pretty much standard nowadays. A pain to commute to, but outside of rush hour no big deal. It's only 17 miles, after all. I was born and bred in those environs, btw. Were you? Because you seem a bit confused about the extent of Cardiff, and I do know that if you ask anyone in Tynant where it is yewer from, they won't answer 'Cardiff'... |
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johng
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Post by johng on Jul 28, 2021 14:13:22 GMT
On the first point I think we'll have to agree to disagree. On the second, do you know where Tynant is? I'll give you a clue, not the Rhondda. It's basically touching Cardiff and is further south than Tonteg.
No - it's not 'a big day out' to go to Cardiff. People in Cardiff like to think it is, but it isn't. It's pretty much standard nowadays. A pain to commute to, but outside of rush hour no big deal. It's only 17 miles, after all. I was born and bred in those environs, btw. Were you? Because you seem a bit confused about the extent of Cardiff, and I do know that if you ask anyone in Tynant where it is yewer from, they won't answer 'Cardiff'... Yes, I was. Born, raised and lived most of my life here.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'yewer'. No, obviously Tynant isn't Cardiff (though Abercynon is apparently Cardiff North nowadays (and if you don't get that, you have no right to comment)) and you totally misunderstand my point if that's why you think I wrote.
When I say it's 'basically touching Cardiff', I quite obviously and clearly mean the Cardiff Council area which it's a couples of minutes from by car.
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spirit
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Post by spirit on Jul 28, 2021 22:09:08 GMT
The result reported above for Tyn-y-Nant (including Middle Englander's calculations) appears to be incorrect. The Labour vote was reported as 411, but the result on the RCT website shows 441. This is what the council tweeted on the night. /photo/1 |
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Post by middleenglander on Jul 30, 2021 15:02:53 GMT
The result reported above for Tyn-y-Nant (including Middle Englander's calculations) appears to be incorrect. The Labour vote was reported as 411, but the result on the RCT website shows 441. This is what the council tweeted on the night. /photo/1 I have been trying to verify what the actual Labour vote was. However, it has so far been impossible to speak either to anyone in Electoral Services or else the Returning Officer despite several attempts and hanging on to unanswered redirections. If the Returning Officer read out from the attached sheet then that will be the official result as declared. I have re-amended the post accordingly. |
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