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Post by yellowperil on Jul 23, 2021 15:01:13 GMT
I am actually getting quite concerned for Mike. Rational scepticism about all existing political parties is one thing, and in our heart of hearts we can actually share something of that, some more than others. Dislike of sentimental attitudes, we can all recognise that especially when it gets really mawkish and irrational,and about things we don't happen to care so deeply about ourselves. A hard-nosed critique of the government's response to the Covid crisis- yes we could sure do with some of that, though I think there needs to be a recognition there are no easy answers. But increasingly I find Mike's response to all these questions over the top. Political parties are not just fallible human institutions, they seem like the embodiment of evil. Dislike of sentimentality seems to be veering into mysogyny- he no longer seems to accept what it is to be human. And something that has already killed 4 million people should be accepted rather than fought with the tools at our disposal, however imperfect. Well, humanity is a disposable asset, isn't it? Am I reading him wrong? He is just a nihilist who doesn't care if millions of people die, he is just a selfish person being who wants to go drink a latte without a mask. I find that an extreme reaction in the opposite direction and I no more support that. Anyway, difficult to actually drink a latte with mask in place.Most people take it off to drink. |
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Jul 23, 2021 15:09:10 GMT
mike treats this site as the spine he likes to run down. I am actually getting quite concerned for Mike. Rational scepticism about all existing political parties is one thing, and in our heart of hearts we can actually share something of that, some more than others. Dislike of sentimental attitudes, we can all recognise that especially when it gets really mawkish and irrational,and about things we don't happen to care so deeply about ourselves. A hard-nosed critique of the government's response to the Covid crisis- yes we could sure do with some of that, though I think there needs to be a recognition there are no easy answers. But increasingly I find Mike's response to all these questions over the top. Political parties are not just fallible human institutions, they seem like the embodiment of evil. Dislike of sentimentality seems to be veering into mysogyny- he no longer seems to accept what it is to be human. And something that has already killed 4 million people should be accepted rather than fought with the tools at our disposal, however imperfect. Well, humanity is a disposable asset, isn't it? Am I reading him wrong? I think you're reading it wrong. It's about balance of approach. Covid has broken many peoples trust with the authorities also, as they have 1 agenda only Covid. We need a balanced approach including covid, the economy, other health issues, education, etc. Under it all this is what Mike wants. What I see as a common sense approach, a balance. He is more strident in how he says it but under it all this is still the main thing he is asking for in my opinion. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2021 15:10:57 GMT
It is a rural ward, where personalities matter as much as party politics. There are better ways to campaign than the traditional urban ways of maximum visibility and presence. Experience and trust are more important factors in places like this. It was really a reply to the "Greens have the best campaign machinery" with Conglesbury as an example.. But done rather obliquely I concede! But Congresbury is far from the only example of the Greens' campaign strength |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Jul 23, 2021 15:35:39 GMT
As always local issues are often important and invisible to outsiders, but I do wonder whether Labour’s selection of a Muslim candidate was unhelpful in this area. Or it could be part of a national trend of Hindu voters reacting to Labour's dog-whistle use of that picture of the Prime Minister and Narendra Modi. More by-elections in heavily Hindu areas needed. |
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Khunanup
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Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
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Post by Khunanup on Jul 23, 2021 15:40:19 GMT
I am actually getting quite concerned for Mike. Rational scepticism about all existing political parties is one thing, and in our heart of hearts we can actually share something of that, some more than others. Dislike of sentimental attitudes, we can all recognise that especially when it gets really mawkish and irrational,and about things we don't happen to care so deeply about ourselves. A hard-nosed critique of the government's response to the Covid crisis- yes we could sure do with some of that, though I think there needs to be a recognition there are no easy answers. But increasingly I find Mike's response to all these questions over the top. Political parties are not just fallible human institutions, they seem like the embodiment of evil. Dislike of sentimentality seems to be veering into mysogyny- he no longer seems to accept what it is to be human. And something that has already killed 4 million people should be accepted rather than fought with the tools at our disposal, however imperfect. Well, humanity is a disposable asset, isn't it? Am I reading him wrong? I think you're reading it wrong. It's about balance of approach. Covid has broken many peoples trust with the authorities also, as they have 1 agenda only Covid. We need a balanced approach including covid, the economy, other health issues, education, etc. Under it all this is what Mike wants. What I see as a common sense approach, a balance. He is more strident in how he says it but under it all this is still the main thing he is asking for in my opinion. I don't agree. Mike's misanthropy goes back way before the pandemic and his response to it I take in that context, alongside the apparent complete lack of empathy thus his entirely judgemental attitude towards any views that are not his own that if anything appear to have got worse over the last 18 months. But I've said as much before and he doesn't care about what any of us have to say (predictably) so I tend let him just wallow in his somewhat dispiriting world rather than being concerned or over-engaging. |
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Post by pepperminttea on Jul 23, 2021 16:40:23 GMT
As always local issues are often important and invisible to outsiders, but I do wonder whether Labour’s selection of a Muslim candidate was unhelpful in this area. Electoral Calculus (not the most reliable, I know) thinks that Humberstone & Hamilton was one of two wards in Leicester that the Tories carried in the 2019 general election, the other being neighbouring Thurncourt. I don't know Leicester literally at all but it does seem highly likely that the Tory vote in Leicester East would be concentrated in the areas further from the City Centre especially if said area has a large population of people of Indian descent. In light of this, I think a Tory gain here was always going to be fairly likely unless Labour had nominated a popular Hindu community figure. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Jul 23, 2021 16:57:24 GMT
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Post by rhyfelwyr on Jul 23, 2021 17:00:57 GMT
The whole of RCT is pretty much Cardiff commuter territory nowadays. Which is why it takes longer to get to Cardiff of a morning from where I grew up (the top end of the Rhondda Fach) than it does where I live now (West Glos). Whole place is smot up with traffic every morning and evening. A470 is one big crawl. Whether or not the Metro will alleviate this remains to be seen. Oh I know.
In a previous life, I commuted to Cardiff myself. Trains were generally standing room only south of Pontypridd and crowded south of, say, Radyr.
I know more than a couple of people who commute down the A470 daily from north of Brecon.
I hope Metro will encourage more people off the roads and onto trains. A four hourly schedule (12 to Ponty) is essentially walk-up service and the proposed shortened journeys will no doubt help.
The difference between Beddau and Maerdy is that for many (non-commuters) in Maerdy, Cardiff is a big day out whereas it's the main local centre for many in Beddau. The Conservative Party isn't really eating away at Labour's vote in the north of RCT like it is in the south. I can't be bothered to look for the figures, but I think a much higher percentage of the workforce in Beddau will commute to Cardiff too.
It's not a big day out any longer. Hasn't been for years. Several buses an hour from the 'Fach at the moment as it is. People are used to nipping into the 'Diff for stuff now, especially because you've no chance of getting anything other than basics in Treorchy, Porth or even Ponty, and nobody goes to Aberdare or Merthyr if they can help it. It's become accepted practice, the same way as people in the Gwent valleys inevitably end up there or Newport (and usually Cardiff). The local shopping centres are declining fast. Tory party has no background in the former RBC. I think they only ever had one councillor, and that because Labour forgot their nomination papers and he ended up unopposed. They have had a foothold of sorts in the former Taff-Ely, but even there Ponty and its environs weren't usual Tory territory. You've got to get down to Tonteg and Efail Isaf and places like that to see your RCT Tories. Shy and retiring sorts, they are  |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jul 23, 2021 17:03:05 GMT
This may be telling tales out of school but the school of thought in the Labour Party is that it's far more efficient to have polling day volunteers going round on GOTV than to have them sat at the polling station taking numbers, even if it means some time is wasted going to people who have already voted. If there are immobile volunteers happy to sit on the polling station then fine, but don't tie up anyone who could be knocking on doors. I used to really hate knocking up in the evening to be systematically abused by people who had already been knocked up twice, after voting in the morning, because there were no tellers. Maybe other people are tougher than me, but I stopped knocking up, and started volunteering to tell….. And I always felt that enraging your supporters in this way probably didn’t help down the line, although agents had nothing but scorn for the future. My philosophy was: if you've knocked them up, never go there again, regardless of response. The hassle of multiple knocks on the same door isn't worth it compared to the benefit from using that time to do something else, such as knock up people you *haven't* yet knocked up. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jul 23, 2021 17:06:01 GMT
I wasn't suggesting it was. The long-standing malaise with regard to politics is well established - isn't it only journalists and estate agents who are disliked as much as politicians? And lawyers... Remind me what is Sir Keir by training? Don't you go undermining Mike's high opinion of Sir Kier. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jul 23, 2021 17:07:55 GMT
I am actually getting quite concerned for Mike. Rational scepticism about all existing political parties is one thing, and in our heart of hearts we can actually share something of that, some more than others. Dislike of sentimental attitudes, we can all recognise that especially when it gets really mawkish and irrational,and about things we don't happen to care so deeply about ourselves. A hard-nosed critique of the government's response to the Covid crisis- yes we could sure do with some of that, though I think there needs to be a recognition there are no easy answers. But increasingly I find Mike's response to all these questions over the top. Political parties are not just fallible human institutions, they seem like the embodiment of evil. Dislike of sentimentality seems to be veering into mysogyny- he no longer seems to accept what it is to be human. And something that has already killed 4 million people should be accepted rather than fought with the tools at our disposal, however imperfect. Well, humanity is a disposable asset, isn't it? Am I reading him wrong? He is just a nihilist who doesn't care if millions of people die, he is just a selfish person being who wants to go drink a latte without a mask. There is a twitter feed 'Nihilists for Labour'. It's meant to be a spoof, but it sometimes reads like Mike's posts on here. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jul 23, 2021 17:13:25 GMT
This may be telling tales out of school but the school of thought in the Labour Party is that it's far more efficient to have polling day volunteers going round on GOTV than to have them sat at the polling station taking numbers, even if it means some time is wasted going to people who have already voted. If there are immobile volunteers happy to sit on the polling station then fine, but don't tie up anyone who could be knocking on doors. I used to really hate knocking up in the evening to be systematically abused by people who had already been knocked up twice, after voting in the morning, because there were no tellers. Maybe other people are tougher than me, but I stopped knocking up, and started volunteering to tell….. And I always felt that enraging your supporters in this way probably didn’t help down the line, although agents had nothing but scorn for the future. Those engaged in knocking up should be reporting responses back to the committee room to avoid that happening. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 23, 2021 17:18:12 GMT
I used to really hate knocking up in the evening to be systematically abused by people who had already been knocked up twice, after voting in the morning, because there were no tellers. Maybe other people are tougher than me, but I stopped knocking up, and started volunteering to tell….. And I always felt that enraging your supporters in this way probably didn’t help down the line, although agents had nothing but scorn for the future. Those engaged in knocking up should be reporting responses back to the committee room to avoid that happening. I weep to say it, but for a while it became the thing to do "it takes too much time:" not to record responses/then cross people off in Labour canvassing. Can't blame either Corbyn or Starmer for that as it started under Ed Stone. |
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johng
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Post by johng on Jul 23, 2021 17:24:54 GMT
It's not a big day out any longer. Hasn't been for years. Several buses an hour from the 'Fach at the moment as it is. Tory party has no background in the former RBC. I think they only ever had one councillor, and that because Labour forgot their nomination papers and he ended up unopposed. They have had a foothold of sorts in the former Taff-Ely, but even there Ponty and its environs weren't usual Tory territory. You've got to get down to Tonteg and Efail Isaf and places like that to see your RCT Tories. Shy and retiring sorts, they are
On the first point I think we'll have to agree to disagree. On the second, do you know where Tynant is? I'll give you a clue, not the Rhondda. It's basically touching Cardiff and is further south than Tonteg.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2021 17:36:16 GMT
mike treats this site as the spine he likes to run down. I am actually getting quite concerned for Mike. Rational scepticism about all existing political parties is one thing, and in our heart of hearts we can actually share something of that, some more than others. Dislike of sentimental attitudes, we can all recognise that especially when it gets really mawkish and irrational,and about things we don't happen to care so deeply about ourselves. A hard-nosed critique of the government's response to the Covid crisis- yes we could sure do with some of that, though I think there needs to be a recognition there are no easy answers. But increasingly I find Mike's response to all these questions over the top. Political parties are not just fallible human institutions, they seem like the embodiment of evil. Dislike of sentimentality seems to be veering into mysogyny- he no longer seems to accept what it is to be human. And something that has already killed 4 million people should be accepted rather than fought with the tools at our disposal, however imperfect. Well, humanity is a disposable asset, isn't it? Am I reading him wrong? I'm a tad wary of talking about Mike like this in public, but yes, I have noticed everything you've said both "live" and when I was unregistered and just lurking. It's healthy to have criticism about things. It's perhaps less healthy to have such hatred for so many things. But I have to say we may need to tred carefully about talking like this about a member in the open. |
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Post by rcronald on Jul 23, 2021 17:37:42 GMT
As always local issues are often important and invisible to outsiders, but I do wonder whether Labour’s selection of a Muslim candidate was unhelpful in this area. Electoral Calculus (not the most reliable, I know) thinks that Humberstone & Hamilton was one of two wards in Leicester that the Tories carried in the 2019 general election, the other being neighbouring Thurncourt. I don't know Leicester literally at all but it does seem highly likely that the Tory vote in Leicester East would be concentrated in the areas further from the City Centre especially if said area has a large population of people of Indian descent. In light of this, I think a Tory gain here was always going to be fairly likely unless Labour had nominated a popular Hindu community figure. Even if electoral calculus is right, it says that the Tories won there by 3 precent which is lower then the Margin here. |
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Jul 23, 2021 17:42:23 GMT
I think you're reading it wrong. It's about balance of approach. Covid has broken many peoples trust with the authorities also, as they have 1 agenda only Covid. We need a balanced approach including covid, the economy, other health issues, education, etc. Under it all this is what Mike wants. What I see as a common sense approach, a balance. He is more strident in how he says it but under it all this is still the main thing he is asking for in my opinion. I don't agree. Mike's misanthropy goes back way before the pandemic and his response to it I take in that context, alongside the apparent complete lack of empathy thus his entirely judgemental attitude towards any views that are not his own that if anything appear to have got worse over the last 18 months. But I've said as much before and he doesn't care about what any of us have to say (predictably) so I tend let him just wallow in his somewhat dispiriting world rather than being concerned or over-engaging. Misanthropy is an interesting term. I don't believe he hates the human race, or even has contempt for it. There is a difference between that and disagreeing with how current society is organised and its values. There is nothing wrong with questioning keeping people alive. I know YellowPeril wants Eileen to live as long as possible. I do however sometimes wonder if my sister would have been better off dieing in 2012 given all her problems since. That's not to say I don't want her here, but omne wonders if keeping her alive so long is right. At times I also wonder the same about my mum as she is disintegrating to not being herself. I don't think that's misanthropic, in May ways you could say its from love of humans. Just because someone challenges the accepted wisdom of longevity, doesn't make them misanthropic. |
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Jul 23, 2021 17:48:36 GMT
I am actually getting quite concerned for Mike. Rational scepticism about all existing political parties is one thing, and in our heart of hearts we can actually share something of that, some more than others. Dislike of sentimental attitudes, we can all recognise that especially when it gets really mawkish and irrational,and about things we don't happen to care so deeply about ourselves. A hard-nosed critique of the government's response to the Covid crisis- yes we could sure do with some of that, though I think there needs to be a recognition there are no easy answers. But increasingly I find Mike's response to all these questions over the top. Political parties are not just fallible human institutions, they seem like the embodiment of evil. Dislike of sentimentality seems to be veering into mysogyny- he no longer seems to accept what it is to be human. And something that has already killed 4 million people should be accepted rather than fought with the tools at our disposal, however imperfect. Well, humanity is a disposable asset, isn't it? Am I reading him wrong? I'm a tad wary of talking about Mike like this in public, but yes, I have noticed everything you've said both "live" and when I was unregistered and just lurking. It's healthy to have criticism about things. It's perhaps less healthy to have such hatred for so many things. But I have to say we may need to tred carefully about talking like this about a member in the open.
Agreed
Healthy debate different ans challenging views don't mean that someone is a hater. I don't believe Mike is, I don't interpret it that way. Or anyone on this site that way.
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Post by andrew111 on Jul 23, 2021 17:51:57 GMT
Electoral Calculus (not the most reliable, I know) thinks that Humberstone & Hamilton was one of two wards in Leicester that the Tories carried in the 2019 general election, the other being neighbouring Thurncourt. I don't know Leicester literally at all but it does seem highly likely that the Tory vote in Leicester East would be concentrated in the areas further from the City Centre especially if said area has a large population of people of Indian descent. In light of this, I think a Tory gain here was always going to be fairly likely unless Labour had nominated a popular Hindu community figure. Even if electoral calculus is right, it says that the Tories won there by 3 precent which is lower then the Margin here. Perhaps Boris Johnson shaking Imran Khan's hand festured in the Tory leaflets? |
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Jul 23, 2021 17:54:37 GMT
He is just a nihilist who doesn't care if millions of people die, he is just a selfish person being who wants to go drink a latte without a mask. There is a twitter feed 'Nihilists for Labour'. It's meant to be a spoof, but it sometimes reads like Mike's posts on here.
Mmmm we have a moderator making what I consider near inappropriate posts about a board member here. Maybe said moderator should consider his position as a moderator.
Just because one challenges many tenents of human thought one is not necessarily a nihilist per se. Many of our accepted wisdom's of today would have been considered nihilstic a few hundred years ago.
People should think very carefully before throwing these words around.
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