peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
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Post by peterl on Sept 3, 2021 13:29:35 GMT
Well you asked for it. The executive would be apolitical and consist of privy councillors nominated through the public appointments process on merit and based on what they can bring to the role, not their views. There would then be a series of advisory boards that feed into the privy council, for instance on the budget or on education. A smaller, more agile National Assembly would hold the executive to account and could work up legislation through committee. Committee members would likewise be appointed based on what they know about the subject matter. Elections would probably be held using AMS. There would be requirements in terms of having knowledge or experience in an approved field before you can stand. Approval against the criteria would be handled by the returning officer and the list would be created by the privy council. The Assembly would be a part time voluntary body and members would not be paid. Any kind of paid lobbying would be illegal. The power of local authorities would also be increased, and councils would be run on the committee system.  What do you mean by "Returning Officer"? A local government official in charge of administering elections. But then you surely knew that. |
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peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
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Post by peterl on Sept 3, 2021 13:31:43 GMT
Well you asked for it. The executive would be apolitical and consist of privy councillors nominated through the public appointments process on merit and based on what they can bring to the role, not their views. There would then be a series of advisory boards that feed into the privy council, for instance on the budget or on education. A smaller, more agile National Assembly would hold the executive to account and could work up legislation through committee. Committee members would likewise be appointed based on what they know about the subject matter. Elections would probably be held using AMS. There would be requirements in terms of having knowledge or experience in an approved field before you can stand. Approval against the criteria would be handled by the returning officer and the list would be created by the privy council. The Assembly would be a part time voluntary body and members would not be paid. Any kind of paid lobbying would be illegal. The power of local authorities would also be increased, and councils would be run on the committee system. Sound like a cronies charter with the 'educated elite' appointing the 'educated elite'. Well to be clear, what someone can bring to a role can be as much their experience as their academic knowledge. But yes, the fundamental principle of my reform agenda is that the people making decisions should have some background in what they are making decisions on. A criteria of competency rather than consensus. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Sept 3, 2021 13:38:20 GMT
What do you mean by "Returning Officer"? A local government official in charge of administering elections. But then you surely knew that. Well, I did think that initially. But then I thought "he can't possibly be suggesting that, can he?" But it seems that you were. And putting them in charge of such an important function just seemed too bizarre. But it seems not. Given the inconsistencies displayed by ROs in many, many aspects of the existing law on elections giving them the role of deciding whether potential candidates have the appropriate "knowledge" or "experience" seems like a charter for chaos. (Call me old-fashioned but I quite like the idea of the electors deciding rather than a local government officer.) |
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peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
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Post by peterl on Sept 3, 2021 13:40:28 GMT
A local government official in charge of administering elections. But then you surely knew that. Well, I did think that initially. But then I thought "he can't possibly be suggesting that, can he?" But it seems that you were. And putting them in charge of such an important function just seemed too bizarre. But it seems not. Determing whether criteria agrees by someone else are applicable or not is something local government officials do a lot of. But if you'd prefer someone else make the call I'd be open to it. Its a gatekeeping function. Maybe GPs could take it on. (joke) |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Sept 3, 2021 13:42:38 GMT
Well, I did think that initially. But then I thought "he can't possibly be suggesting that, can he?" But it seems that you were. And putting them in charge of such an important function just seemed too bizarre. But it seems not. Determing whether criteria agrees by someone else are applicable or not is something local government officials do a lot of. But if you'd prefer someone else make the call I'd be open to it. Its a gatekeeping function. Maybe GPs could take it on. (joke) The electors? |
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peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
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Post by peterl on Sept 3, 2021 13:46:24 GMT
Determing whether criteria agrees by someone else are applicable or not is something local government officials do a lot of. But if you'd prefer someone else make the call I'd be open to it. Its a gatekeeping function. Maybe GPs could take it on. (joke) The electors? Who are such an informed attentive bunch. Democracy doesn't work partly because people don't care enough to inform themselves of what's going on. Which is why people who are knowledgable about something should make decisions and why a gatekeeping role is needed. |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 3, 2021 14:44:08 GMT
I'm not convinced that referendums need to mean Swiss-style micromanagement - I see them more as a vehicle for ensuring that popular opinion is represented more proportionally and mitigating against the threat (whether real or perceived) of an 'out of touch elite' controlling everything. It was very clear that when 52% of voters elected to leave the EU, the % of declared leavers in parliament was a lot less than this. The referendum exposed the underrepresentation and subsequent actions by politicians only served to underline the disparity. This is almost certainly still the case on issues like capital punishment, immigration and foreign aid. The case for denying the right to referendums would be stronger if parliament were more representative, but it's clearly very lacking. But on those sort of issues, we need protecting from the mob. This is why I'm not a populist. Does that imply that you are a mediated, moderated, semi, reduced democrat, prepared to let the 'Mob' (majority of the electorate) a minor say in the compilation of a pariament, every few years, on the distinct understanding that they then do all the thinking and deciding with no input at all from the under-educated and insuffiently 'woke' Mob, who must be kept at arms length. A sort of upper Whig semi democratic, partially elective oligarchy of the right sort of people? |
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Merseymike
Independent
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 3, 2021 14:48:49 GMT
But on those sort of issues, we need protecting from the mob. This is why I'm not a populist. Does that imply that you are a mediated, moderated, semi, reduced democrat, prepared to let the 'Mob' (majority of the electorate) a minor say in the compilation of a pariament, every few years, on the distinct understanding that they then do all the thinking and deciding with no input at all from the under-educated and insuffiently 'woke' Mob, who must be kept at arms length. A sort of upper Whig semi democratic, partially elective oligarchy of the right sort of people? No. Simply that on a number of issues, I don't trust the electorate to protect the interests of the temporarily unpopular. Which is why we have representative rather than direct democracy which as I have said I have other issues with anyway. I'd just like that representative democracy to be more pluralist. Unlike you I'm not that bothered about strong, stable government. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Sept 3, 2021 16:20:14 GMT
Who are such an informed attentive bunch. Democracy doesn't work partly because people don't care enough to inform themselves of what's going on. Which is why people who are knowledgable about something should make decisions and why a gatekeeping role is needed. We will have to agree to disagree. On balance I'll take democracy, with all its failings, over rule by some small cabal of the "knowledgeable". |
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Post by islington on Sept 3, 2021 17:42:03 GMT
"Democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." - that's what I say.
(Well, all right, I admit Winston Churchill said it first.)
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peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
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Post by peterl on Sept 3, 2021 17:47:17 GMT
"Democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." - that's what I say. (Well, all right, I admit Winston Churchill said it first.) "Democracy is the belief that the people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." H.L Mencken |
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Sept 3, 2021 17:59:27 GMT
Getting rid of parliament would get my vote. Parliament is completely out of touch with everything and entirely unrepresentative. Time for a fresh start. ..I'd be interested to hear what you plan to replace it with. Shoes. They can replace it all with attractive fancy shoes. |
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Sept 3, 2021 18:18:00 GMT
That's exactly the kind of 'we know better' attitude that foments resentment and ultimately causes the rise of populist movements... I don't think many of the reforms which meant, for example, I'm no longer classed as a criminal, would have happened if left to referendum. There was a time when sucking a man's cock was technically illegal. But nobody actually got prosecuted. Not really. Now we live in a world where pointing out the fact that somebody may have sucked a man's cock is not only a 'hate crime' but actual hours of police time are dedicated to 'investigating' this 'crime'. We've previously ascertained that I've sucked more cocks than you. I know which world I would rather live in! |
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Post by manchesterman on Sept 3, 2021 18:21:20 GMT
Well this thread has taken an *ahem* unexpected turn  |
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Sept 3, 2021 18:46:43 GMT
..I'd be interested to hear what you plan to replace it with. Shoes. They can replace it all with attractive fancy shoes. That point gets 10 Mrs Marcos's out of 10. |
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Post by johnhemming on Sept 3, 2021 18:57:45 GMT
Which is why people who are knowledgable about something should make decisions and why a gatekeeping role is needed. This thread is getting a bit surreal, but ignoring that how do you define who the gatekeeper (s) is (are). |
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Sept 3, 2021 19:01:02 GMT
Which is why people who are knowledgable about something should make decisions and why a gatekeeping role is needed. This thread is getting a bit surreal, but ignoring that how do you define who the gatekeeper (s) is (are). Indeed. And that is how one arrives at Subjective Libertarianism as the only valid, consistent answer. To any of it. |
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Post by johnhemming on Sept 3, 2021 19:05:00 GMT
This thread is getting a bit surreal, but ignoring that how do you define who the gatekeeper (s) is (are). Indeed. And that is how one arrives at Subjective Libertarianism as the only valid, consistent answer. To any of it. How then do you measure 83 (in terms of 83%) |
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Merseymike
Independent
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 3, 2021 19:13:06 GMT
I don't think many of the reforms which meant, for example, I'm no longer classed as a criminal, would have happened if left to referendum. There was a time when sucking a man's cock was technically illegal. But nobody actually got prosecuted. Not really. Now we live in a world where pointing out the fact that somebody may have sucked a man's cock is not only a 'hate crime' but actual hours of police time are dedicated to 'investigating' this 'crime'. We've previously ascertained that I've sucked more cocks than you. I know which world I would rather live in! Oh, for goodness sake. Life was bloody awful. Hanging around public toilets, having to live a lie, constantly under threat. That might appeal to you, but not to me. Give me a country where I can marry the man I love every time. |
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Sept 3, 2021 19:20:56 GMT
Indeed. And that is how one arrives at Subjective Libertarianism as the only valid, consistent answer. To any of it. How then do you measure 83 (in terms of 83%) My favourite number. Well done. |
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