The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,916
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Post by The Bishop on Jul 5, 2023 10:53:39 GMT
Erm.....any councillors suspended from their party lately?
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Sandy
Forum Regular
Posts: 3,201 
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Post by Sandy on Jul 5, 2023 11:11:04 GMT
The 'strawman' accusation is total crap. TOTAL CRAP. I'm making this point from the start; if you wish to unload it, that's for you to do. I do not understand how you can be so thick to not notice that christianity is an irrelevance to a general issue about any supernatural belief. Dictionaries record usage and if people misuse words according to their actual definition by philosophers, then the usage will be included in the dictionary. And that's another one of your tedious rubbish posts dealt with economically. Now go away. Why are philosophers using it if it’s not a philosophy? AHHH! AHHH! greenchristian’s definition is the actual definition used by philosophers……. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 5, 2023 11:14:56 GMT
Atheism is lack of belief in god(s).
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Sandy
Forum Regular
Posts: 3,201
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Post by Sandy on Jul 5, 2023 11:25:46 GMT
Atheism is lack of belief in god(s). Oh you’re doing a parrot impression in a larger font, well I’m convinced now. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 5, 2023 11:33:31 GMT
I note and accept you don't dispute the definition. The ancient Romans called the early christians "atheist" because they lacked belief in the various gods of the Roman pantheon.
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Post by greenchristian on Jul 5, 2023 11:37:46 GMT
The 'strawman' accusation is total crap. TOTAL CRAP. I'm making this point from the start; if you wish to unload it, that's for you to do. I do not understand how you can be so thick to not notice that christianity is an irrelevance to a general issue about any supernatural belief. Dictionaries record usage and if people misuse words according to their actual definition by philosophers, then the usage will be included in the dictionary. And that's another one of your tedious rubbish posts dealt with economically. Now go away. A couple of pages back you were literally claiming that the existence of child abuse in Christian churches was evidence against the existence of God. Now you're claiming that only a thick person could possibly think that Christianity was relevant to issues about "supernatural" beliefs. Are you absolutely sure you want to be describing yourself as thick? Yes, widespread misuse of terms will eventually be recorded in dictionaries. And some dictionaries do now contain the widespread popular-level misuse of the word atheism to mean "lack of belief in god(s)" as a secondary definition. But there are still plenty of dictionaries which do not. And if you had even a passing familiarity with the field of philosophy of religion, you'd know that "belief in the non-existence of god(s)" is the definition used across the board in that field. By those like Graham Oppy and Paul Draper on your side of the argument and by those like Alvini Plantiga and Richard Swinburne on mine. |
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Sandy
Forum Regular
Posts: 3,201
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Post by Sandy on Jul 5, 2023 11:45:05 GMT
I note and accept you don't dispute the definition. The ancient Romans called the early christians "atheist" because they lacked belief in the various gods of the Roman pantheon. Back to twisting my words I see. I had thought it was fairly obvious I agreed with greenchristian’s definition. Atheist has had different meaning throughout time. Whatever reason the Romans had for defining Theists as Atheists has no bearing on your shoddy definitions. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 5, 2023 12:08:34 GMT
The 'strawman' accusation is total crap. TOTAL CRAP. I'm making this point from the start; if you wish to unload it, that's for you to do. I do not understand how you can be so thick to not notice that christianity is an irrelevance to a general issue about any supernatural belief. Dictionaries record usage and if people misuse words according to their actual definition by philosophers, then the usage will be included in the dictionary. And that's another one of your tedious rubbish posts dealt with economically. Now go away. A couple of pages back you were literally claiming that the existence of child abuse in Christian churches was evidence against the existence of God. Now you're claiming that only a thick person could possibly think that Christianity was relevant to issues about "supernatural" beliefs. Are you absolutely sure you want to be describing yourself as thick? Yes you are thick as shown by the fact you manifestly didn't understand a very simple piece of text. Read it again and describe it correctly because you're the one who's either strawmanning or too thick to engage with. |
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Post by AdminSTB on Jul 5, 2023 12:21:07 GMT
Lets be civil here chaps.
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Post by tonyhill on Jul 5, 2023 13:12:32 GMT
Can we just stfu about religion? (I thought there was a thread for the tedious subject anyway).
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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Jul 6, 2023 5:47:36 GMT
The man was elected on a Conservative manifesto. He should stand for a party like the Christian People's Alliance who shares his views, if he cannot effectively represent the Conservative party manifesto he was elected to implement. Nobody who belongs to a mainstream political party agrees with every single line of that party's policy. The only way to implement your ideas would be to completely ban political parties and force everybody to stand as an independent. Which is utterly unrealistic. It's a significant party policy. If you have a diametrically opposite view on a key issue, then it makes you vulnerable to blackmail. Both by internal rivals and outsiders. That doesn't mean his view shouldn't be represented - it just means that he should stand for a party that believes in his view about this issue. If it wasn't a major issue, he wouldn't have talked about it. |
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Post by greenchristian on Jul 6, 2023 13:39:58 GMT
Nobody who belongs to a mainstream political party agrees with every single line of that party's policy. The only way to implement your ideas would be to completely ban political parties and force everybody to stand as an independent. Which is utterly unrealistic. It's a significant party policy. If you have a diametrically opposite view on a key issue, then it makes you vulnerable to blackmail. Both by internal rivals and outsiders. That doesn't mean his view shouldn't be represented - it just means that he should stand for a party that believes in his view about this issue. If it wasn't a major issue, he wouldn't have talked about it. The guy is reported to have said that being gay is a sin, that involvement in Pride is also a sin, and that God will punish people who do not repent of these sins (note that the news article doesn't have exact quotes, so this may or may nor be an accurate interpretation of the comments). These are strictly religious opinions. As far as I can tell the Conservative Party's policies do not include statements on what is and is not sexually immoral by God's standards. Nor do they include statements on what God will and will not ultimately punish. Regardless of where you stand on the morality of gay sex and related activities I don't see how this man's views are diametrically opposite to Conservative Party policy. He isn't saying that any of these activities should be illegal or regulated, which is where there would be a conflict with Conservative Party policy.
I also don't see how blackmail comes into it. Even if Conservative policy did have emphatic religious statements that are opposed to these views, this is somebody who is willing to make such statements on a public platform. What exactly would a potential blackmailer be threatening him with?
And why would talking about an issue mean that it has to be a major issue? I certainly don't restrict myself to talking only about major issues, and I don't know anybody who does.
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Post by timrollpickering on Jul 6, 2023 14:11:54 GMT
And the latest councillor to be administratively suspended from their party is...
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batman
Labour
Posts: 12,395
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Post by batman on Jul 6, 2023 15:47:31 GMT
I've been suspended from the Labour Party for my failure to believe in God.
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batman
Labour
Posts: 12,395
Member is Online
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Post by batman on Jul 6, 2023 15:47:51 GMT
(please note : this is not actually true)
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Post by markgoodair on Jul 6, 2023 18:34:48 GMT
Labour Councillor Fazila Loonat who represents Batley East ward on Kirkless Council has been jailed for 14 weeks for attempting to pervert the course of justice .
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Post by Dalek Prime on Jul 6, 2023 18:36:08 GMT
I've been suspended from the Labour Party for my failure to believe in God. Reminded me of this. |
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Post by greatkingrat on Jul 6, 2023 18:54:24 GMT
Labour Councillor Fazila Loonat who represents Batley East ward on Kirkless Council has been jailed for 14 weeks for attempting to pervert the course of justice . She did an Onasanya-Huhne to be precise. |
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Post by greenhert on Jul 6, 2023 19:10:44 GMT
Labour Councillor Fazila Loonat who represents Batley East ward on Kirkless Council has been jailed for 14 weeks for attempting to pervert the course of justice . Which automatically disqualifies her as a councillor under the Local Government Act anyway. |
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r34t
Non-Aligned
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Post by r34t on Jul 6, 2023 19:15:51 GMT
Labour Councillor Fazila Loonat who represents Batley East ward on Kirkless Council has been jailed for 14 weeks for attempting to pervert the course of justice . This should also be posted on the 'stupidity' thread. |
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