Batley and Spen

[The Bishop]

Your point is a fair one, but right above certainly won't have been alone in feeling a slight queasiness at the possibility.

[Merseymike]

May 12, 2021 16:20:58 GMT @boogieeck said:

So I will say the unsayable. But first the caveats.

Jo Cox was, without doubt, a good person, a diligent MP, and her community felt shock and sadness at her murder at the hands of a bigotted scumbag.

But she was then elevated to a somewhat unrealistic sainthood and her murder elevated to an event of historic importance. Batley and Spen is the very sort of constituency that historically wanted a Labour MP that did Labour MP sort of things fighting 1960s sorts of social injustice, not a 2021 edition social justice warrior fighting for mandatory personal pronouns and imagining that they live in a racist society and Boris Johnson is really a fascist. Not that I assume Jo Coxes sister is any such loon, she may well be a good local campaigner in the traditional Labour mould, but her selection would inevitably take us down that rabbit hole for both the Labour campaign and the contrary campaign which the Conservative party would keep its hands scrupulously clean on.

Now, are Labour ready to *lose* a by-election on a campaign platform of "show the far right that they did not win" then find the London Contingent find confirmation that these places are full of racist bigots and Labour does not need them anyway?

I am going to remind Labour how they invoked the memory of Gwyneth Dunwoody and fought a dirty identity campaign against a family that has done more for society with its multi-millions than Dunwoody ever did - and got its backside handed to it on a plate.

Jo Cox wasn't like that, though, and would have held the seat as easily as did her successor. She wasn't particularly left wing - unlike her Old Left predecessor, Mike Wood. I can only assume you don't know much about her sister either! Her project is all about bringing people together, and given that she has lived in the area all her life (still does, she lives in Gomersal) I don't think there would be any danger of a 'London' type campaign.

Dunwoody's daughter lived in west Wales, a former MS, and had no links with Crewe at all other than her mother being the former MP. The campaign was quite the worst I have ever seen, but to be fair to her, she wasn't responsible for it.

[stash]

Kim Leadbeater makes it official:

[minionofmidas]

May 12, 2021 16:20:58 GMT @boogieeck said:

Now, are Labour ready to *lose* a by-election

Why not?
if that's what it takes to get rid of Starmer?

[greenhert]

May 12, 2021 19:04:55 GMT minionofmidas said:

May 12, 2021 16:20:58 GMT @boogieeck said:

Now, are Labour ready to *lose* a by-election

Why not?
if that's what it takes to get rid of Starmer?

They are less likely to lose this by-election than the Hartlepool by-election, especially if they select a local candidate, even though like Hartlepool Batley & Spen would have been a Conservative gain in 2019 had the Conservative vote not been accidentally split (by the Heavy Woollen District Independents).

[Deleted]

I am always wary of situations were there is potential for an accusation, regardless of party, of trying to play on a tragic event.
That may well be unfair in this case, but if (as is surely inevitable) the ‘this is Jo Cox’s sister’ line were to be trailed, it would make for a somewhat uncomfortable sense of expectation of how someone ‘should’ vote - because of that link.
I think that’s a double-edged sword.
The fact that it would be as a candidate in a by-election touted as possibly at risk, as opposed to at a general election, would make it appear more cynical.

[hengo]

Twitter will demand her anointment. Anything less would be sacrilege. Can you imagine the scenes among that little group of female Labour MPs who used to collectively genuflect at every mention of her sister’s name in the Commons?

[Deleted]

Of course ironically it could also nullify the positive effects a win might have for Keir Starmer, as his opponents in the party and the somewhat unsupportive media might say it was a ‘Jo Cox effect’ that won it.

[right]

May 12, 2021 19:15:31 GMT greenhert said:

May 12, 2021 19:04:55 GMT minionofmidas said:

Why not?
if that's what it takes to get rid of Starmer?

They are less likely to lose this by-election than the Hartlepool by-election, especially if they select a local candidate, even though like Hartlepool Batley & Spen would have been a Conservative gain in 2019 had the Conservative vote not been accidentally split (by the Heavy Woollen District Independents).

The Hartlepool candidate was a local hospital doctor. On paper he was a good candidate (Remain voting aside).

[hengo]

Indeed and they’d be right, but it would still take the wind out of any campaign to get rid. Not a bad outcome for the Government at all.
( answering johnyorks)

[middyman]

May 12, 2021 20:51:08 GMT right said:

May 12, 2021 19:15:31 GMT greenhert said:

They are less likely to lose this by-election than the Hartlepool by-election, especially if they select a local candidate, even though like Hartlepool Batley & Spen would have been a Conservative gain in 2019 had the Conservative vote not been accidentally split (by the Heavy Woollen District Independents).

The Hartlepool candidate was a local hospital doctor. On paper he was a good candidate (Remain voting aside).

Didn’t he sign off the very unpopular scheme to downgrade the local hospital by removing several departments, including critical care?

[Ron Swanson]

May 12, 2021 20:52:57 GMT hengo said:

Indeed and they’d be right, but it would still take the wind out of any campaign to get rid. Not a bad outcome for the Government at all.
( answering johnyorks)

Yes.

If she is selected, for lots of reasons it might be wise for the Conservatives to be light touch in this campaign.

They’ve got a huge majority... and could gain some positive publicity among elements of the public by virtue signalling to ‘let’ Labour win.

If Labour win, Starmer stays.

If Tories win, they didn’t campaign too hard... and still won. Labour disarray etc.

[Deleted]

May 12, 2021 16:20:58 GMT @boogieeck said:

So I will say the unsayable. But first the caveats.

Jo Cox was, without doubt, a good person, a diligent MP, and her community felt shock and sadness at her murder at the hands of a bigotted scumbag.

But she was then elevated to a somewhat unrealistic sainthood and her murder elevated to an event of historic importance. Batley and Spen is the very sort of constituency that historically wanted a Labour MP that did Labour MP sort of things fighting 1960s sorts of social injustice, not a 2021 edition social justice warrior fighting for mandatory personal pronouns and imagining that they live in a racist society and Boris Johnson is really a fascist. Not that I assume Jo Coxes sister is any such loon, she may well be a good local campaigner in the traditional Labour mould, but her selection would inevitably take us down that rabbit hole for both the Labour campaign and the contrary campaign which the Conservative party would keep its hands scrupulously clean on.

Now, are Labour ready to *lose* a by-election on a campaign platform of "show the far right that they did not win" then find the London Contingent find confirmation that these places are full of racist bigots and Labour does not need them anyway?

I am going to remind Labour how they invoked the memory of Gwyneth Dunwoody and fought a dirty identity campaign against a family that has done more for society with its multi-millions than Dunwoody ever did - and got its backside handed to it on a plate.

a) why are the right so obsessed with pronouns?
b) Do you actually know what a personal pronoun is?

[Forfarshire Conservative]

May 12, 2021 7:44:29 GMT CatholicLeft said:

I did wonder if this might be a possibility. www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/12/jo-cox-sister-labour-batley-spen-byelection-kim-leadbeater

That's a bit iffy. Labour might lose the seat, so sister of the assassinated former MP for the area suddenly comes into the frame?

[The Bishop]

As you can see from previous posts, you are not alone in feeling a bit "iffy" at the prospect.

But if it is indeed the case that she is not just locally based but politically active, that maybe does put a slightly different slant on things.

And at least one presumes that, after Hartlepool, we will carry out a proper selection this time

[Sandy]

May 12, 2021 21:59:55 GMT @europeanlefty said:

May 12, 2021 16:20:58 GMT @boogieeck said:

So I will say the unsayable. But first the caveats.

Jo Cox was, without doubt, a good person, a diligent MP, and her community felt shock and sadness at her murder at the hands of a bigotted scumbag.

But she was then elevated to a somewhat unrealistic sainthood and her murder elevated to an event of historic importance. Batley and Spen is the very sort of constituency that historically wanted a Labour MP that did Labour MP sort of things fighting 1960s sorts of social injustice, not a 2021 edition social justice warrior fighting for mandatory personal pronouns and imagining that they live in a racist society and Boris Johnson is really a fascist. Not that I assume Jo Coxes sister is any such loon, she may well be a good local campaigner in the traditional Labour mould, but her selection would inevitably take us down that rabbit hole for both the Labour campaign and the contrary campaign which the Conservative party would keep its hands scrupulously clean on.

Now, are Labour ready to *lose* a by-election on a campaign platform of "show the far right that they did not win" then find the London Contingent find confirmation that these places are full of racist bigots and Labour does not need them anyway?

I am going to remind Labour how they invoked the memory of Gwyneth Dunwoody and fought a dirty identity campaign against a family that has done more for society with its multi-millions than Dunwoody ever did - and got its backside handed to it on a plate.

a) why are the right so obsessed with pronouns?
b) Do you actually know what a personal pronoun is?

My pronoun is “esq”.

[The Bishop]

May 12, 2021 21:11:44 GMT middyman said:

May 12, 2021 20:51:08 GMT right said:

The Hartlepool candidate was a local hospital doctor. On paper he was a good candidate (Remain voting aside).

Didn’t he sign off the very unpopular scheme to downgrade the local hospital by removing several departments, including critical care?

Indeed, that very likely negated the NHS as a campaign issue.

It was also a major failure of due diligence by the party not to have noticed it before railroading his selection through.

[timmullen1]

May 13, 2021 9:56:50 GMT The Bishop said:

May 12, 2021 21:11:44 GMT middyman said:

Didn’t he sign off the very unpopular scheme to downgrade the local hospital by removing several departments, including critical care?

Indeed, that very likely negated the NHS as a campaign issue.

It was also a major failure of due diligence by the party not to have noticed it before railroading his selection through.

In his post election Red Box interview he denies being any part of that report: “The Tories ran a brutally effective campaign. Saying that I commissioned and co-authored a report on closure of hospital services (I did neither) put us on the defensive in what should have been our strongest area. I led GPs to open an urgent care centre at the local hospital and have given much of the past year to the town’s Covid-19 clinic. Storytelling in politics is an art. Once you start explaining, you’re losing.”

[The Bishop]

Then it should have been rebutted right away as an absolute top priority, it wasn't.

[timmullen1]

May 13, 2021 10:26:30 GMT The Bishop said:

Then it should have been rebutted right away as an absolute top priority, it wasn't.

There’s a rebuttal interview in The Hartlepool Mail dated 20 April www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/politics/furious-labour-hartlepool-by-election-candidate-hits-back-at-hospital-hypocrite-claims-3206684

(There may be more but I’ve got no WiFi and am running low on my data allowance, so am trying to limit my browsing)