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Post by ArmchairCritic on Jun 16, 2021 12:01:53 GMT
As nobody else has, I’ll ask - faeces? And if "nobody cares" then it won't rebound on Labour, surely? As it was, expecting the fifth anniversary of Cox's killing not to be marked in some way - not least given that many local Labour people would have been colleagues if not friends of hers - was never realistic, and doing so in an appropriate and tasteful fashion is not "milking it". No....it's a bit of a double edged sword really. I can quite understand that it is happening but I suspect that some people will see it as opportunism.
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Jun 16, 2021 12:29:12 GMT
Carlton if you’re seriously ignorant enough to need it explaining to you, and can’t ask without resorting to profanities, I have neither the patience or inclination to be the one to do so. As far as I’m concerned somewhere there’s a rock from which you crawled and should return at the earliest opportunity. I have autism. “The autistic” is not insulting to me because I’m not a pretentious twat. It is however grammatically incorrect, and maybe not pretentious, but….
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Jun 16, 2021 12:43:14 GMT
As many of you will know, I've recently become Chair of a disabilities charity. (Yes, go and donate, share, follow etc.)
Trust me, we have *far more important* things to worry about than what is the 'correct' or 'appropriate' terminology to be using at any specific point in time.
And indeed far more important work to be getting on with.
Clearly when writing content I'm not going to be using obviously outmoded words like 'spastic' or 'cripple' for the sake of it, but equally I'm not going to spend hours of time making sure every word panders to the whims of a brigade of thought-policing curtain-twitchers just waiting to catch people out for saying the wrong thing that was the right thing last week.
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Jun 16, 2021 13:08:32 GMT
As many of you will know, I've recently become Chair of a disabilities charity. (Yes, go and donate, share, follow etc.) Trust me, we have *far more important* things to worry about than what is the 'correct' or 'appropriate' terminology to be using at any specific point in time. And indeed far more important work to be getting on with. Clearly when writing content I'm not going to be using obviously outmoded words like 'spastic' or 'cripple' for the sake of it, but equally I'm not going to spend hours of time making sure every word panders to the whims of a brigade of thought-policing curtain-twitchers just waiting to catch people out for saying the wrong thing that was the right thing last week. If that’s your attitude, even as someone with a fairly laid back attitude to the subject, I’d say you’re manifestly unfit to hold the office you have recently assumed, as you are clearly unwilling to consider the feelings and opinions of the people your organisation purports to represent. I’ve obviously not been in the conversation where your elevation was revealed, but if you would do me the courtesy of revealing the details of the organisation, I’ll ensure that a formal expression of concern about your fitness for the job goes to your Trustees that will have to be recorded and made available to the Charity Commission.
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Sandy
Forum Regular
Posts: 2,782
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Post by Sandy on Jun 16, 2021 13:18:32 GMT
As many of you will know, I've recently become Chair of a disabilities charity. (Yes, go and donate, share, follow etc.) Trust me, we have *far more important* things to worry about than what is the 'correct' or 'appropriate' terminology to be using at any specific point in time. And indeed far more important work to be getting on with. Clearly when writing content I'm not going to be using obviously outmoded words like 'spastic' or 'cripple' for the sake of it, but equally I'm not going to spend hours of time making sure every word panders to the whims of a brigade of thought-policing curtain-twitchers just waiting to catch people out for saying the wrong thing that was the right thing last week. If that’s your attitude, even as someone with a fairly laid back attitude to the subject, I’d say you’re manifestly unfit to hold the office you have recently assumed, as you are clearly unwilling to consider the feelings and opinions of the people your organisation purports to represent. I’ve obviously not been in the conversation where your elevation was revealed, but if you would do me the courtesy of revealing the details of the organisation, I’ll ensure that a formal expression of concern about your fitness for the job goes to your Trustees that will have to be recorded and made available to the Charity Commission. If the issuing of thinly veiled threats constitutes “fairly laid back”, I would hate to hear someone with an even larger stick up their arse on the subject…..
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 16, 2021 13:27:52 GMT
As many of you will know, I've recently become Chair of a disabilities charity. (Yes, go and donate, share, follow etc.) Trust me, we have *far more important* things to worry about than what is the 'correct' or 'appropriate' terminology to be using at any specific point in time. And indeed far more important work to be getting on with. Clearly when writing content I'm not going to be using obviously outmoded words like 'spastic' or 'cripple' for the sake of it, but equally I'm not going to spend hours of time making sure every word panders to the whims of a brigade of thought-policing curtain-twitchers just waiting to catch people out for saying the wrong thing that was the right thing last week. If that’s your attitude, even as someone with a fairly laid back attitude to the subject, I’d say you’re manifestly unfit to hold the office you have recently assumed, as you are clearly unwilling to consider the feelings and opinions of the people your organisation purports to represent. I’ve obviously not been in the conversation where your elevation was revealed, but if you would do me the courtesy of revealing the details of the organisation, I’ll ensure that a formal expression of concern about your fitness for the job goes to your Trustees that will have to be recorded and made available to the Charity Commission. While I can appreciate you're annoyed by Sirb's flippancy on the subject , I don't think the rest of your post is worthy of you tim, or terribly helpful tbh.
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Post by michael2019 on Jun 16, 2021 13:33:15 GMT
As many of you will know, I've recently become Chair of a disabilities charity. (Yes, go and donate, share, follow etc.) Trust me, we have *far more important* things to worry about than what is the 'correct' or 'appropriate' terminology to be using at any specific point in time. And indeed far more important work to be getting on with. Clearly when writing content I'm not going to be using obviously outmoded words like 'spastic' or 'cripple' for the sake of it, but equally I'm not going to spend hours of time making sure every word panders to the whims of a brigade of thought-policing curtain-twitchers just waiting to catch people out for saying the wrong thing that was the right thing last week. If that’s your attitude, even as someone with a fairly laid back attitude to the subject, I’d say you’re manifestly unfit to hold the office you have recently assumed, as you are clearly unwilling to consider the feelings and opinions of the people your organisation purports to represent. I’ve obviously not been in the conversation where your elevation was revealed, but if you would do me the courtesy of revealing the details of the organisation, I’ll ensure that a formal expression of concern about your fitness for the job goes to your Trustees that will have to be recorded and made available to the Charity Commission. I back sirbenjamin I am on the woke side of culture wars but also a militant on free speech which is a little difficult! And this is a relatively fast changing field. "Queer" was OK if slightly derogatory but then consideraly beyond the pale and then got appropriated by the LGBTQ community and was prob. then usable by them but not straight people and now has become the Q part of LGBTQ (which itself may be rightly is becoming the whole alphabet and is probably now LGBTQIA+) but I have to say that I am not sure whether "queer" on its own is usable by straights - probably not. "Spastic" is I believe going through a similar journey and may be reclaimed by comedians with a disability etc. "People of colour" and "women of colour" was something about 18 months I believe you had to apologise for but now seems to acceptable - particularly as it is used widely in America. So long as people *try* and be polite and don't use the most offensive terms then someone who types something not wholly PC / Woke etc. quickly on an obscure unread internet forum but does try and help people with a disability is surely to be infinitely preferred to the opposite!
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Jun 16, 2021 13:40:26 GMT
If that’s your attitude, even as someone with a fairly laid back attitude to the subject, I’d say you’re manifestly unfit to hold the office you have recently assumed, as you are clearly unwilling to consider the feelings and opinions of the people your organisation purports to represent. I’ve obviously not been in the conversation where your elevation was revealed, but if you would do me the courtesy of revealing the details of the organisation, I’ll ensure that a formal expression of concern about your fitness for the job goes to your Trustees that will have to be recorded and made available to the Charity Commission. While I can appreciate you're annoyed by Sirb's flippancy on the subject , I don't think the rest of your post is worthy of you tim, or terribly helpful tbh. Seriously, I don’t take his comments as flippant; the issue of language and terminology is very much live amongst members of the PWD community, and to dismiss disabled people as “thought policing curtain twitchers” is utterly contemptible and unacceptable. It really genuinely concerns me as to what that says to his attitude towards the people he’s representing. Too often our real feelings our disguised behind a curtain of humour.
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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Jun 16, 2021 13:54:20 GMT
As many of you will know, I've recently become Chair of a disabilities charity. (Yes, go and donate, share, follow etc.) Trust me, we have *far more important* things to worry about than what is the 'correct' or 'appropriate' terminology to be using at any specific point in time. And indeed far more important work to be getting on with. Clearly when writing content I'm not going to be using obviously outmoded words like 'spastic' or 'cripple' for the sake of it, but equally I'm not going to spend hours of time making sure every word panders to the whims of a brigade of thought-policing curtain-twitchers just waiting to catch people out for saying the wrong thing that was the right thing last week. If that’s your attitude, even as someone with a fairly laid back attitude to the subject, I’d say you’re manifestly unfit to hold the office you have recently assumed, as you are clearly unwilling to consider the feelings and opinions of the people your organisation purports to represent. I’ve obviously not been in the conversation where your elevation was revealed, but if you would do me the courtesy of revealing the details of the organisation, I’ll ensure that a formal expression of concern about your fitness for the job goes to your Trustees that will have to be recorded and made available to the Charity Commission. Are you possibly reading more into what sirbenjamin said than is there? To me he seems to be saying he will avoid offensive language but not doesn't have time to accommodate to woke language. To me that doesn't mean he will not use appropriate language in his charities communications. The latest woke language to me goes beyond what is generally seen as current appropriate language. Maybe I'm being to charitable to him, I don't know.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 16, 2021 14:04:08 GMT
While I can appreciate you're annoyed by Sirb's flippancy on the subject , I don't think the rest of your post is worthy of you tim, or terribly helpful tbh. Seriously, I don’t take his comments as flippant; the issue of language and terminology is very much live amongst members of the PWD community, and to dismiss disabled people as “thought policing curtain twitchers” is utterly contemptible and unacceptable. It really genuinely concerns me as to what that says to his attitude towards the people he’s representing. Too often our real feelings our disguised behind a curtain of humour. He wasn't dismissing 'disabled people' as “thought policing curtain twitchers” - he was dismissing the kind of pompous tossers who engage in thought policing as “thought policing curtain twitchers”
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Jun 16, 2021 14:06:05 GMT
If that’s your attitude, even as someone with a fairly laid back attitude to the subject, I’d say you’re manifestly unfit to hold the office you have recently assumed, as you are clearly unwilling to consider the feelings and opinions of the people your organisation purports to represent. I’ve obviously not been in the conversation where your elevation was revealed, but if you would do me the courtesy of revealing the details of the organisation, I’ll ensure that a formal expression of concern about your fitness for the job goes to your Trustees that will have to be recorded and made available to the Charity Commission. Are you possibly reading more into what sirbenjamin said than is there? To me he seems to be saying he will avoid offensive language but not doesn't have time to accommodate to woke language. To me that doesn't mean he will not use appropriate language in his charities communications. The latest woke language to me goes beyond what is generally seen as current appropriate language. Maybe I'm being to charitable to him, I don't know. Can I refer you to my concerns laid out in my reply to finsobruce along with the addition that I’ll momentarily be offline until later this evening as I’ve imminently got a three hour care call that I then need a couple of hours sleep to recover from?
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Jun 16, 2021 14:13:33 GMT
If that’s your attitude, even as someone with a fairly laid back attitude to the subject, I’d say you’re manifestly unfit to hold the office you have recently assumed, as you are clearly unwilling to consider the feelings and opinions of the people your organisation purports to represent. I’ve obviously not been in the conversation where your elevation was revealed, but if you would do me the courtesy of revealing the details of the organisation, I’ll ensure that a formal expression of concern about your fitness for the job goes to your Trustees that will have to be recorded and made available to the Charity Commission. Are you possibly reading more into what sirbenjamin said than is there? To me he seems to be saying he will avoid offensive language but not doesn't have time to accommodate to woke language. To me that doesn't mean he will not use appropriate language in his charities communications. The latest woke language to me goes beyond what is generally seen as current appropriate language. Maybe I'm being to charitable to him, I don't know.
Indeed. This kind of 'reading more into' is exactly the sort of curtain-twitchery 'OMG you used the wrong word, I'm telling on you!!11' behaviour that anybody trying to do good in the modern world has to contend with...
Strangely, it doesn't come from any of our service users who represent a range of physical, learning and communications disabilities - and who are hugely appreciative of the plans my charity has and the work that we do - it's *always* able-bodied people taking offense 'on their behalf'.
Every single one of our service users has more important things on their plates than whether someone phrased two words the wrong way round, or added a 'the' or an 's'. Remarkable that.
I shall be sure to share Mr. Mullen's comments with my fellow trustees and all of our service users. We enjoy a laugh, and could use this as the basis for a comedy writing workshop. Who knows - some might even agree that I'm entirely unfit to run the centre, in which case I'll resign and let somebody else do it!
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,722
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 16, 2021 14:17:48 GMT
As many of you will know, I've recently become Chair of a disabilities charity. (Yes, go and donate, share, follow etc.) Trust me, we have *far more important* things to worry about than what is the 'correct' or 'appropriate' terminology to be using at any specific point in time. And indeed far more important work to be getting on with. Clearly when writing content I'm not going to be using obviously outmoded words like 'spastic' or 'cripple' for the sake of it, but equally I'm not going to spend hours of time making sure every word panders to the whims of a brigade of thought-policing curtain-twitchers just waiting to catch people out for saying the wrong thing that was the right thing last week. Just make sure the English works. Use adjectives where adjectives are required, use nouns when nouns are required, refer to entities by reference to them as entities instead of reifying one of the adjectives applied to them.
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Jun 16, 2021 14:19:53 GMT
If that’s your attitude, even as someone with a fairly laid back attitude to the subject, I’d say you’re manifestly unfit to hold the office you have recently assumed, as you are clearly unwilling to consider the feelings and opinions of the people your organisation purports to represent. I’ve obviously not been in the conversation where your elevation was revealed, but if you would do me the courtesy of revealing the details of the organisation, I’ll ensure that a formal expression of concern about your fitness for the job goes to your Trustees that will have to be recorded and made available to the Charity Commission. While I can appreciate you're annoyed by Sirb's flippancy on the subject , I don't think the rest of your post is worthy of you tim, or terribly helpful tbh.
No flippancy. There are legitimately far more important and consequential things to deal with when working in this space.
If we spent time and resources obsessing over language we would be failing our service users.
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Jun 16, 2021 14:21:20 GMT
Seriously, I don’t take his comments as flippant; the issue of language and terminology is very much live amongst members of the PWD community, and to dismiss disabled people as “thought policing curtain twitchers” is utterly contemptible and unacceptable. It really genuinely concerns me as to what that says to his attitude towards the people he’s representing. Too often our real feelings our disguised behind a curtain of humour. He wasn't dismissing 'disabled people' as “thought policing curtain twitchers” - he was dismissing the kind of pompous tossers who engage in thought policing as “thought policing curtain twitchers”
It sucks when something so manifestly simple has to be spelled out doesn't it...
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Jun 16, 2021 14:25:26 GMT
If that’s your attitude, even as someone with a fairly laid back attitude to the subject, I’d say you’re manifestly unfit to hold the office you have recently assumed, as you are clearly unwilling to consider the feelings and opinions of the people your organisation purports to represent. I’ve obviously not been in the conversation where your elevation was revealed, but if you would do me the courtesy of revealing the details of the organisation, I’ll ensure that a formal expression of concern about your fitness for the job goes to your Trustees that will have to be recorded and made available to the Charity Commission. I back sirbenjamin I am on the woke side of culture wars but also a militant on free speech which is a little difficult! And this is a relatively fast changing field. "Queer" was OK if slightly derogatory but then consideraly beyond the pale and then got appropriated by the LGBTQ community and was prob. then usable by them but not straight people and now has become the Q part of LGBTQ (which itself may be rightly is becoming the whole alphabet and is probably now LGBTQIA+) but I have to say that I am not sure whether "queer" on its own is usable by straights - probably not. "Spastic" is I believe going through a similar journey and may be reclaimed by comedians with a disability etc. "People of colour" and "women of colour" was something about 18 months I believe you had to apologise for but now seems to acceptable - particularly as it is used widely in America. So long as people *try* and be polite and don't use the most offensive terms then someone who types something not wholly PC / Woke etc. quickly on an obscure unread internet forum but does try and help people with a disability is surely to be infinitely preferred to the opposite!
Reclaiming/appropriation is an interesting topic.
One of the conversations we're going to be having soon is what to collectively call our service users, who are a mix of care home residents with various disabilities and their carers and support workers. Because 'service users' is a frankly rubbish term and nobody likes it.
Everyone involved with the centre will be feeding into the process. I wouldn't be surprised if 'Joeys' turns out to be the winner.
And that would be a pretty hefty reclamation of the term.
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peterl
Green
Monarchic Technocratic Localist
Posts: 8,270
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Post by peterl on Jun 16, 2021 14:33:17 GMT
While I can appreciate you're annoyed by Sirb's flippancy on the subject , I don't think the rest of your post is worthy of you tim, or terribly helpful tbh. Seriously, I don’t take his comments as flippant; the issue of language and terminology is very much live amongst members of the PWD community, and to dismiss disabled people as “thought policing curtain twitchers” is utterly contemptible and unacceptable. It really genuinely concerns me as to what that says to his attitude towards the people he’s representing. Too often our real feelings our disguised behind a curtain of humour. I have a disability. My brother has a disability. And I have worked with people with a range of disabilities. You are the only person who has posted anything on this thread that has at all bothered me. Threatening to make spurious reports about people because of their refusal to engage with pointless debates about what exact formula of words is used is indicative of a real attitude problem on your part. In all my experiences, us disabled people care far more about practical considerations and equal opportunities than terminology. So get over yourself.
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Post by johnloony on Jun 16, 2021 14:39:00 GMT
While I can appreciate you're annoyed by Sirb's flippancy on the subject , I don't think the rest of your post is worthy of you tim, or terribly helpful tbh. Seriously, I don’t take his comments as flippant; the issue of language and terminology is very much live amongst members of the PWD community, and to dismiss disabled people as “thought policing curtain twitchers” is utterly contemptible and unacceptable. It really genuinely concerns me as to what that says to his attitude towards the people he’s representing. Too often our real feelings our disguised behind a curtain of humour. Now my brain is contrafibularitating whether there is a profoundly ideological difference between "The PWD community" and "people with disabilities". Or does it need to be "People With Disabilities"? As a member of the Who Cares community, I wonder if this type of Thread Drifting Off Topic is a degenerate bourgeois indulgence anyway. Meanwhile, the WPB list is essentially "Free High Quality Everything for Everybody (Immediately, with no waiting lists or need for rationing)".
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Jun 16, 2021 14:39:29 GMT
As many of you will know, I've recently become Chair of a disabilities charity. (Yes, go and donate, share, follow etc.) Trust me, we have *far more important* things to worry about than what is the 'correct' or 'appropriate' terminology to be using at any specific point in time. And indeed far more important work to be getting on with. Clearly when writing content I'm not going to be using obviously outmoded words like 'spastic' or 'cripple' for the sake of it, but equally I'm not going to spend hours of time making sure every word panders to the whims of a brigade of thought-policing curtain-twitchers just waiting to catch people out for saying the wrong thing that was the right thing last week. If that’s your attitude, even as someone with a fairly laid back attitude to the subject, I’d say you’re manifestly unfit to hold the office you have recently assumed, as you are clearly unwilling to consider the feelings and opinions of the people your organisation purports to represent. I’ve obviously not been in the conversation where your elevation was revealed, but if you would do me the courtesy of revealing the details of the organisation, I’ll ensure that a formal expression of concern about your fitness for the job goes to your Trustees that will have to be recorded and made available to the Charity Commission. A Brown was banned for this sort of thing. I'm sure BossMan will keep an eye on the situation. Also, you speak for yourself. My father, mother and brother are all disabled and they'd view you with the unalloyed contempt you deserve. Your peculiar sensitivities of language are not universally shared, and you'd do well to remember that when you purport to speak on behalf of others.
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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Jun 16, 2021 14:56:13 GMT
Please can people also take into account that often having a disability isn't easy. My sister is so bloody strong it's unbelievable. I admire anyone who copes with a longterm disability, especially a severe one. I also understand that it can make people maybe more sensitive to words than others may think warranted. Things get to me as a tired carer but a least I have the option to walk away unlike a tired person with a severe disability.
I also appreciate hard work people who run charities put in often for no financial reward.
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