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Post by justin124 on Jun 14, 2021 14:24:57 GMT
Unlike Hartlepool, there did have to be a byelection in Batley&Spen following Tracey Brabin's election as West Yorkshire Mayor, but it could have been delayed until Autumn. By the way, the late-1970s by elections referred to - Ashfield, Grimsby and Workington - all occurred under Callaghan - not Wilson. My wording was not the best. Wilson, like Callaghan, certainly held a number of unnecessary by-elections including one futile attempt to get Patrick Gordon Walker back into the Commons in Leyton in 1965 after losing is Smethick seat in 1964. That was certainly self-inflicted. At 57 he could have been sent to the Lords. He left the cabinet in 1968 after being elected in Leyton in 1966. You are quite correct re- the 1964 - 1970 Government. In addition to the Leyton fiasco in January 1965, Labour suffered by election reverses following the elevation of - Herbert Bowden ( Leicester SW), Tom Fraser (Hamilton) both on the same day in November 1967. Then came George Wigg (Dudley) in March 1968. Callaghan though was far more reckless in the context of a non existent majority. Such losses proved decisive in defeating his Government in the March 1979 No Confidence Vote.
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Post by matureleft on Jun 14, 2021 14:40:28 GMT
The line any UK party takes on Palestine is essentially irrelevant to the issue itself. We have no leverage in the matter. Well we could give diplomatic recognition to the State of Palestine. Indeed. Setting aside whether that's appropriate, would it make any difference to the position on the ground? I think most of us recognise that the only country with substantial leverage is the USA. Iran is clearly important (and a complication). The neighbouring states and nominally supportive Arab states have some significance. But we ceased to have any say long ago. Trump recognised this situation. His policy was to force Palestinian compliance by strongly backing Netanyahu, offering some tiny economic inducements and playing on the anxieties of Arab states concerning Iran. A tool set that could have been found in 19th Century diplomacy. And it bore some fruit.
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Post by iainbhx on Jun 14, 2021 16:32:09 GMT
Unlike Hartlepool, there did have to be a byelection in Batley&Spen following Tracey Brabin's election as West Yorkshire Mayor, but it could have been delayed until Autumn. Well she didn't have to stand or the rules could have been changed to prevent her seeking the candidacy but... And an autumn by-election would have given much more time for other parties and candidates to inflict damage on Labour. I would not like to give the Gorgeous One a six month run up to a by-election.
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Post by justin124 on Jun 14, 2021 17:49:29 GMT
Well she didn't have to stand or the rules could have been changed to prevent her seeking the candidacy but... And an autumn by-election would have given much more time for other parties and candidates to inflict damage on Labour. I would not like to give the Gorgeous One a six month run up to a by-election. But there is so much material available to throw back at him - Saddam Hussein connection etc. Over a long campaign that could be done quite effectively.He has such a past.
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Jun 14, 2021 18:21:58 GMT
I would not like to give the Gorgeous One a six month run up to a by-election. But there is so much material available to throw back at him - Saddam Hussein connection etc. Over a long campaign that could be done quite effectively.He has such a past. I think Galloway exploits existing issues, and throwing things like his links to Saddam means little to the people he’s trying to win over. We have actually been losing ground amongst Pakistani Kashmiris for a number of years, whatever the national Conservatives do/say, locally they’ve very much played “the friend of Kashmir” card; the Tories running Stoke City Council have even passed a resolution supporting the aims of reunification. Jack Brereton puts out leaflets saying as a PPS to the Defence team he can argue for less military spending to India (he’s actually arguing that abolishing DfID helps that as India has to redirect money to make up for the lack of British government money). Gullis stands in the City Centre with a loudhailer telling the anti Indian/anti Modi protestors he’s a “friend of Kashmir”. I will happily concede that Starmer’s response has been as weak and ineffective as his predecessors. If Galloway is gaining traction in B&S then I think the most effective riposte would be to bring in those who were convinced by him to join Respect in Bradford West to remind the people of B&S how he immediately abandoned them after the by-election.
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,240
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Post by Chris from Brum on Jun 14, 2021 18:29:37 GMT
Send for Salma. She's a Labour member now, won't have any scruples about telling it how it is trying to work with him
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Post by andrew111 on Jun 14, 2021 18:37:59 GMT
But there is so much material available to throw back at him - Saddam Hussein connection etc. Over a long campaign that could be done quite effectively.He has such a past. I think Galloway exploits existing issues, and throwing things like his links to Saddam means little to the people he’s trying to win over. We have actually been losing ground amongst Pakistani Kashmiris for a number of years, whatever the national Conservatives do/say, locally they’ve very much played “the friend of Kashmir” card; the Tories running Stoke City Council have even passed a resolution supporting the aims of reunification. Jack Brereton puts out leaflets saying as a PPS to the Defence team he can argue for less military spending to India (he’s actually arguing that abolishing DfID helps that as India has to redirect money to make up for the lack of British government money). Gullis stands in the City Centre with a loudhailer telling the anti Indian/anti Modi protestors he’s a “friend of Kashmir”. I will happily concede that Starmer’s response has been as weak and ineffective as his predecessors. If Galloway is gaining traction in B&S then I think the most effective riposte would be to bring in those who were convinced by him to join Respect in Bradford West to remind the people of B&S how he immediately abandoned them after the by-election. I would point out all the sucking up to Modi that Johnson is doing.. Except Galloway is not asking the Asians to vote Tory I assume. "Vote Galloway get Modi supporter" might have traction. I guess Labour might want to see what the Tory candidate said about Israel when he stood in Leeds NE...
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Post by casualobserver on Jun 14, 2021 18:39:56 GMT
At this stage of the campaign, some surprisingly long odds are being offered against a Labour hold here. SBK at 14/5 against looks so generous to me that I’m almost tempted to bet against my own party!
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Post by andrew111 on Jun 14, 2021 18:43:13 GMT
I am trying to guess what “ support Palestinian “ could actually mean A one state solution? A two state solution? Drive Israel into the sea? Oppose anything any Israeli government does as a matter of principle ? 2 state solution according to the photo of the leaflet up thread (if you are asking what Leadbeater thinks)
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Post by Richard Cromwell on Jun 14, 2021 18:45:16 GMT
I take my eye off this thread for a week and it's got a "man cancelled for years old tweets by a party that pretends to believe in rehabilitation" story (one of my absolute favourite kinds of stories) and heated discussion of the Weimar Republic!
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Post by casualobserver on Jun 14, 2021 18:49:34 GMT
This is toooo good! (Edit: In reference to the second post where he tries to deflect a journalist's question by accusing him of helicoptering into the constituency).
That leaflet is more convincing than any of the LibDem two horse leaflets I’ve seen over the years!
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Post by casualobserver on Jun 14, 2021 18:57:46 GMT
I would not like to give the Gorgeous One a six month run up to a by-election. But there is so much material available to throw back at him - Saddam Hussein connection etc. Over a long campaign that could be done quite effectively.He has such a past. Has it ever occurred to you, justin124, that this could be the end of Starmer as Labour Leader if the Conservatives win this by-election?
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Post by rivers10 on Jun 14, 2021 18:59:14 GMT
I am trying to guess what “ support Palestinian “ could actually mean A one state solution? A two state solution? Drive Israel into the sea? Oppose anything any Israeli government does as a matter of principle ? Let's start with condemn Israel when they commit blatant war crimes and threaten to cut off military aid unless they comply
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johng
Labour
Posts: 4,535
Member is Online
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Post by johng on Jun 14, 2021 19:00:02 GMT
That leaflet is more convincing than any of the LibDem two horse leaflets I’ve seen over the years! It's a cracking effort, I'll give him that.
I do wonder who funds him though. In the recent Welsh election in my electoral region, I got sent a leaflet from his Workers Party with his ugly mug on it. All in all, they go 411 votes (0.2%) and were beaten by TUSC, the Communists and Gwlad Gwlad. Ok postage was free, but printing and organizing a significant number of leaflets isn't.
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Post by justin124 on Jun 14, 2021 19:00:51 GMT
But there is so much material available to throw back at him - Saddam Hussein connection etc. Over a long campaign that could be done quite effectively.He has such a past. Has it ever occurred to you, justin124, that this could be the end of Starmer as Labour Leader if the Conservatives win this by-election? Now there's a thought!
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 14, 2021 19:55:30 GMT
I am trying to guess what “ support Palestinian “ could actually mean A one state solution? A two state solution? Drive Israel into the sea? Oppose anything any Israeli government does as a matter of principle ? As you really aren't on the radar for ever voting Labour and are pro Israel your view isn't important in terms of what Labour's policy is.
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Post by andrew111 on Jun 14, 2021 20:10:42 GMT
This is toooo good! (Edit: In reference to the second post where he tries to deflect a journalist's question by accusing him of helicoptering into the constituency).
That leaflet is more convincing than any of the LibDem two horse leaflets I’ve seen over the years! He has stolen our artwork actually (note yellow clad rider just ahead of blue clad rider)
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Post by andrew111 on Jun 14, 2021 20:12:28 GMT
That leaflet is more convincing than any of the LibDem two horse leaflets I’ve seen over the years! It's a cracking effort, I'll give him that.
I do wonder who funds him though. In the recent Welsh election in my electoral region, I got sent a leaflet from his Workers Party with his ugly mug on it. All in all, they go 411 votes (0.2%) and were beaten by TUSC, the Communists and Gwlad Gwlad. Ok postage was free, but printing and organizing a significant number of leaflets isn't.
Probably the Tories via some roundabout route..
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European Lefty
Labour
Can be bribed with salted liquorice
Posts: 5,666
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Post by European Lefty on Jun 14, 2021 21:01:28 GMT
It's a cracking effort, I'll give him that.
I do wonder who funds him though. In the recent Welsh election in my electoral region, I got sent a leaflet from his Workers Party with his ugly mug on it. All in all, they go 411 votes (0.2%) and were beaten by TUSC, the Communists and Gwlad Gwlad. Ok postage was free, but printing and organizing a significant number of leaflets isn't.
Probably the Tories via some roundabout route.. In fairness "it's George Galloway or a Tory" is one of the best arguments I can think of for voting Tory
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Post by johnloony on Jun 14, 2021 21:50:48 GMT
That leaflet is more convincing than any of the LibDem two horse leaflets I’ve seen over the years! It's a cracking effort, I'll give him that. I do wonder who funds him though. In the recent Welsh election in my electoral region, I got sent a leaflet from his Workers Party with his ugly mug on it. All in all, they go 411 votes (0.2%) and were beaten by TUSC, the Communists and Gwlad Gwlad. Ok postage was free, but printing and organizing a significant number of leaflets isn't.
By “the Communists”, I presume you mean the Communist Party of Britain, which is thoroughly revisionist and riddled with the degeneracy of parliamentary cretinism. The Workers Party of Britain, on the other hand, is the creature, puppet and front organisation of the proper communists (the hardcore unreconstructed orthodox Marxist-Leninist communists ) of the CPGB(ML). Presumably they and/or Galloway have decided that they think they will get more votes under Galloway’s name than their own.
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