|
|
Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on May 7, 2021 14:53:35 GMT
So: it’s the biggest increase in the share of the vote (and the biggest swing) in favour of the government party since WW2, but it’s the biggest since which other by-election? One of the wartime ones the Common Wealth Party won from nowhere? Although really it would be more consistent to treat them as obvious Labour surrogates rather than a new party. |
|
|
|
Post by janwhitby on May 7, 2021 15:22:33 GMT
But but but wallpaper-gate? Surely poor people in Hartlepool are upset about how Boris buys his wallpaper? And the fact that we don't know how many children Boris has Couldn’t agree with you more, that was really pathetic. No wonder Sir Starmer and Dr lost this. |
|
|
|
Post by janwhitby on May 7, 2021 15:24:39 GMT
Thing is, when we're* winning Hartlepool on a big swing, while Putney and Canterbury and Warwick&Leamington are Labour-held, it does make one wonder if we are the bad guys. *I use the term with considerable hesitancy Yes. Labour are the bad guys. Conservatives are the labour movement now. |
|
|
|
Post by janwhitby on May 7, 2021 15:26:24 GMT
I think all it means is that the Conservatives have put together a massive election winning coalition. But White working class voters (of all ages) have replaced some of the Conservative inclined younger metropolitan university educated voters. Labour's problem is that the Culture War has dramatically increased the size of the inhabited political space on the Left. PC/Wokism now attracts 10-15-ish% of the population, including big chunks of ethnic minorities; but meanwhile the traditional working class hasn't moved much. It seems to me that there just isn't a tent big enough for this new leftwing landscape and the coalition can't hold, basically because the two ends of the coalition think the other end of bonkers. (Brexit has expanded the space on the right, but not by as much, and Brexit is a single decision and a minor change to life, compared to the Culture War's aims) In Europe this wouldn't be a problem, because PR and coalitions allow to flex. But as MerseyMike keeps saying, under fptp this is fatal. Labour's dilemma is that all the metropolitan movers and shakers who control the leftwing media would rather keep the Wokists than the Red Wall, even though seats of the latter hugely outnumber the former. Strategically this is a daft choice, because losing small numbers of city seats to Lib Dems/Greens never hurt Blair. Edit: The Tories are using a mild form of nationalism to keep their coalition together, which as we see from Scotland, works. Lib Dems appear to be heading on the woke spectrum recently, is this an aim or accidental? |
|
sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979 
|
Post by sirbenjamin on May 7, 2021 16:48:56 GMT
Labour's problem is that the Culture War has dramatically increased the size of the inhabited political space on the Left. PC/Wokism now attracts 10-15-ish% of the population, including big chunks of ethnic minorities; but meanwhile the traditional working class hasn't moved much. It seems to me that there just isn't a tent big enough for this new leftwing landscape and the coalition can't hold, basically because the two ends of the coalition think the other end of bonkers. (Brexit has expanded the space on the right, but not by as much, and Brexit is a single decision and a minor change to life, compared to the Culture War's aims) In Europe this wouldn't be a problem, because PR and coalitions allow to flex. But as MerseyMike keeps saying, under fptp this is fatal. Labour's dilemma is that all the metropolitan movers and shakers who control the leftwing media would rather keep the Wokists than the Red Wall, even though seats of the latter hugely outnumber the former. Strategically this is a daft choice, because losing small numbers of city seats to Lib Dems/Greens never hurt Blair. Edit: The Tories are using a mild form of nationalism to keep their coalition together, which as we see from Scotland, works. Lib Dems appear to be heading on the woke spectrum recently, is this an aim or accidental? Or a betrayal/idiosyncrasy/fuckwittedness? The correct answer is teh fuckwittedness. |
|
cj
Socialist
These fragments I have shored against my ruins
Posts: 3,285
|
Post by cj on May 7, 2021 17:57:35 GMT
Indeed, and it's becoming a source of existential angst to me. The feeling that I increasingly have very little in common with the party and that an insurgency has taken place.
Like you I really can't stand what the Conservative Party has become but I can't deny that I am taking a huge amount of pleasure in watching the utter implosion of the Labour Party. FTFM |
|
middyman
Conservative
"The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other people's money."
Posts: 8,050
|
Post by middyman on May 7, 2021 18:05:21 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Adam in Stroud on May 7, 2021 19:07:12 GMT
Indeed, and it's becoming a source of existential angst to me. The feeling that I increasingly have very little in common with the party and that an insurgency has taken place.
Like you I really can't stand what the Conservative Party has become but I can't deny that I am taking a huge amount of pleasure in watching the utter implosion of the Labour Party. Serious question, since I only know bits of the answer: what is it about the current Conservative party that you can't stand? |
|
johnloony
Conservative
Posts: 24,534
Member is Online
|
Post by johnloony on May 7, 2021 21:17:02 GMT
A new record (15) for the number of candidates who got more than 100 votes in a parliamentary by-election in the UK. The previous record was 12 (Haltemprice & Howden 2008, and Brent East 2003).
|
|
|
|
Post by andrew111 on May 8, 2021 0:21:17 GMT
Boris has 2024 sown up for the Conservatives already, they'd be stupid to get rid of him as leader until he becomes toxic like Maggie at the end. (assuming he wants to stay in the job) A consortium of Tory donors is gathering since he will only continue the penury he faces as PM if someone else can fund Carrie's lifestyle... 😉 |
|
|
|
Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on May 8, 2021 6:41:08 GMT
Labour's problem is that the Culture War has dramatically increased the size of the inhabited political space on the Left. PC/Wokism now attracts 10-15-ish% of the population, including big chunks of ethnic minorities; but meanwhile the traditional working class hasn't moved much. It seems to me that there just isn't a tent big enough for this new leftwing landscape and the coalition can't hold, basically because the two ends of the coalition think the other end of bonkers. (Brexit has expanded the space on the right, but not by as much, and Brexit is a single decision and a minor change to life, compared to the Culture War's aims) In Europe this wouldn't be a problem, because PR and coalitions allow to flex. But as MerseyMike keeps saying, under fptp this is fatal. Labour's dilemma is that all the metropolitan movers and shakers who control the leftwing media would rather keep the Wokists than the Red Wall, even though seats of the latter hugely outnumber the former. Strategically this is a daft choice, because losing small numbers of city seats to Lib Dems/Greens never hurt Blair. Edit: The Tories are using a mild form of nationalism to keep their coalition together, which as we see from Scotland, works. Lib Dems appear to be heading on the woke spectrum recently, is this an aim or accidental?
To me its seems deliberate policy, but like Labour they can't see the electoral stupidity of it.
If Liberals can stop this, then the Liberal Democrats would be my natural home I think, as it is I'm more likely to vote Tory next time, than them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on May 8, 2021 6:42:52 GMT
Boris has 2024 sown up for the Conservatives already, they'd be stupid to get rid of him as leader until he becomes toxic like Maggie at the end. (assuming he wants to stay in the job) A consortium of Tory donors is gathering since he will only continue the penury he faces as PM if someone else can fund Carrie's lifestyle... 😉
Wouldn't be surprised.  |
|
johnloony
Conservative
Posts: 24,534
Member is Online
|
Post by johnloony on May 8, 2021 11:13:04 GMT
A new record (15) for the number of candidates who got more than 100 votes in a parliamentary by-election in the UK. The previous record was 12 (Haltemprice & Howden 2008, and Brent East 2003). This also means, among other things, that the 108 votes for the OMRLP was the largest ever number of votes for any candidate in 14th place in a parliamentary by-election. |
|
right
Conservative
Posts: 18,763
|
Post by right on May 10, 2021 12:01:52 GMT
Boris has 2024 sown up for the Conservatives already, they'd be stupid to get rid of him as leader until he becomes toxic like Maggie at the end. (assuming he wants to stay in the job) A consortium of Tory donors is gathering since he will only continue the penury he faces as PM if someone else can fund Carrie's lifestyle... 😉 The business case for this is clear |
|
neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
|
Post by neilm on May 19, 2021 10:36:39 GMT
Today is the last day of the tribunal. It is fair to say that, as always with tribunals, things are more nuanced than you might have read. I've just watched Tom Perry's submission which was well crafted.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 11:48:41 GMT
The Conservative percentage margin of victory here eclipses the majorities in Bournemouth West, Croydon South, Macclesfield, Mole Valley, Woking, and a host of other seats held easily in their 1997 nadir.
Hartlepool is 149th on the Conservative defence list
|
|
johnloony
Conservative
Posts: 24,534
Member is Online
|
Post by johnloony on May 19, 2021 12:49:33 GMT
Today is the last day of the tribunal. It is fair to say that, as always with tribunals, things are more nuanced than you might have read. I've just watched Tom Perry's submission which was well crafted. What tribunal? |
|
neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
|
Post by neilm on May 19, 2021 12:50:49 GMT
Today is the last day of the tribunal. It is fair to say that, as always with tribunals, things are more nuanced than you might have read. I've just watched Tom Perry's submission which was well crafted. What tribunal? The employment tribunal where Mike Hill is the respondent, and which has been referenced in the media this week. |
|
|
|
Post by greenhert on May 22, 2021 7:29:00 GMT
The tribunal outcome is still pending but the parliamentary misconduct panel has found Mike Hill to be in breach of Parliament's sexual misconduct policy, resulting in Sir Lindsay Hoyle (Speaker) stripping Mr Hill of his right to a parliamentary pass: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-57186982 |
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,889
Member is Online
|
Post by The Bishop on May 22, 2021 10:13:52 GMT
Labour have also suspended his party membership.
|
|
