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Post by middleenglander on Mar 25, 2013 15:03:37 GMT
In the past you may have relied on a certain level of trust. How many parish councillors may have benefited in the past from decisions they were party to ? Especially on planning. Sorry but if elected and if dealing with public money and decisions, total open transparency and if someone can not deal with that they should not be willing to stand. A Parish Council has a right to be consulted about a planning application. It has historically had no powers to approve one, although this could change, under conditions, if it decides to adopt a Neighbourhood Plan. The real benefit from Parish Councils is that there is a group of people who know substantially more about a local area than either the remote District or even more remote County Council. Many Parish Councils regularly try to prevent these authorities from digging deep holes and then falling into them recognising they do suffer from either a suicidal tendency or one of serious self harm. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 15:07:29 GMT
I agree they have a role but if they can influence decisions then the people are entitled to know what influences them.
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Post by middleenglander on Mar 25, 2013 15:14:42 GMT
I agree they have a role but if they can influence decisions then the people are entitled to know what influences them. I am not sure that filling in a silly form achieves anything. Particularly when there were more differing opinions on how to fill it in than there are people discussing it. Some thought that we had to get dispensation to agree the precept as we were all residents of the parish and therefore pay council tax. Sometimes in villages you are not sure whether you are at the Parish Council, Village Hall Committee, History Society or Horticulture as it is mainly the same people at the different events. |
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Post by marksenior on Mar 25, 2013 15:34:30 GMT
I agree they have a role but if they can influence decisions then the people are entitled to know what influences them. You are living in a cloud cockoo land in an inner city area with not the slightest concept of how a parish council operates or what it even does and assomeone with a naturally interfering busybody mindset you seek to impose your views even when circumstances do not warrant it . |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 15:45:11 GMT
I hardly live in a inner city and make a simple principle that if you have public money making public decisions they you should be open. I find it very strange a LD would think it is ok not to. Yes I realise that most are well known therefore most would know their jobs etc anyway.
Whether PM or a PC member the same rules should apply.
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Post by marksenior on Mar 25, 2013 16:03:24 GMT
I hardly live in a inner city and make a simple principle that if you have public money making public decisions they you should be open. I find it very strange a LD would think it is ok not to. Yes I realise that most are well known therefore most would know their jobs etc anyway. Whether PM or a PC member the same rules should apply. I am making the distinction between someone getting paid in allowances and/or wages to make public decisions and someone giving their free time for no financial recompense doing the same thing on a small scale in their local area |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 16:12:58 GMT
and maybe get benefits in other ways, that a sum arrange maybe for cleaning an area benefits their business that kind of thing.
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Post by marksenior on Mar 25, 2013 16:21:24 GMT
and maybe get benefits in other ways, that a sum arrange maybe for cleaning an area benefits their business that kind of thing. You really are clueless as to the workings of parish councils .. |
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Post by greatkingrat on Mar 25, 2013 17:14:40 GMT
Is there actually any evidence that a significant number of people are standing down/not standing in the first place due to these requirements?
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Post by paulypaul on Mar 25, 2013 17:31:33 GMT
I just think that people are more reluctant to sit on parish councils in some areas nowadays for a variety of reasons.
I live on the boundary of two parish councils. One is fiercly political, with every vacancy contested politically at the ballot box and the other has 6 vacancies that they are unable to even co-opt people on.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 25, 2013 17:58:29 GMT
I agree they have a role but if they can influence decisions then the people are entitled to know what influences them. I am not sure that filling in a silly form achieves anything. Particularly when there were more differing opinions on how to fill it in than there are people discussing it. Some thought that we had to get dispensation to agree the precept as we were all residents of the parish and therefore pay council tax. Sometimes in villages you are not sure whether you are at the Parish Council, Village Hall Committee, History Society or Horticulture as it is mainly the same people at the different events. The advice I have seen is that you DO need a dispensation. In passing the Localism Act the Government [normally so careful to ensure there are no flaws in its legislation] forgot to include a general dispensation for budget and precept setting. Certainly all of my PCs have been asked to apply for the relevant dispensation! |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 25, 2013 18:03:42 GMT
and maybe get benefits in other ways, that a sum arrange maybe for cleaning an area benefits their business that kind of thing. But that sort of matter was already covered! What is new is that members have to declare the interests of spouses - not as they arise, but 'in advance' as it were, however unlikely they are ever to be relevant. To give you an example I know of one councillor who is in a family partnership (farming). They are happy to list their own interests, and to declare family interests should they crop up, but now have to give a written breakdown of their spouse's complex business interests, which may never be relevant. And any error or omission can be a criminal offence. |
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Post by marksenior on Mar 25, 2013 18:12:29 GMT
I think Mark and his sidekick Dok are simply using this debate to attack Ian. I think the disclosure requirements are not unduly onerous and I do know what I am talking about. I live in an area with a parish council and I attend its meetings every month. they may not be onerous if you and your partner are retired or on benefits but see gwynthegriffs post for an example where they certainly are . |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 18:18:20 GMT
I think Mark and his sidekick Dok are simply using this debate to attack Ian. I think the disclosure requirements are not unduly onerous and I do know what I am talking about. I live in an area with a parish council and I attend its meetings every month. they may not be onerous if you and your partner are retired or on benefits but see gwynthegriffs post for an example where they certainly are . he said 'which may never be relevant' Well this could apply to MP's couldn't it ? |
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Post by marksenior on Mar 25, 2013 18:23:12 GMT
they may not be onerous if you and your partner are retired or on benefits but see gwynthegriffs post for an example where they certainly are . he said 'which may never be relevant' Well this could apply to MP's couldn't it ? For heaven's sake , get real , we are talking about very small parish and town councils with miniscule budgets not district , unitary , county , met councils or MP's . |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 18:28:20 GMT
scale does not matter, the principle does, where people wield any kind of power then we should know their interests and how they could benefit.
Yes much smaller scale but it can make a difference.
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Post by marksenior on Mar 25, 2013 18:56:03 GMT
scale does not matter, the principle does, where people wield any kind of power then we should know their interests and how they could benefit. Yes much smaller scale but it can make a difference. Why should you want to know every single facet of their lives ? Is it pure nosiness on your part or a basic lack of distrust in believing that a person would not serve on parish council with no financial reward without some ulterior financial purpose ? No it cannot make any difference whatsoever . Your thinking on this is the same Labour Party desire to dominate and control every aspect of people's lives that brought us the ID cards fiasco . Why not extend this to people who have more financial powers than parish councillors , people who are school governors , serve on LEA or health uthorities etc etc . More and more Labour beurocracy and intrusion into people's private lives as always . |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 19:00:50 GMT
so in that case you would withdraw the register of members interests then ?
That is all that happens at local and national, if it goes further at Parish Level then that is different and wrong.
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Post by marksenior on Mar 25, 2013 19:15:02 GMT
so in that case you would withdraw the register of members interests then ? That is all that happens at local and national, if it goes further at Parish Level then that is different and wrong. I believe ( but am open to stand corrected ) that the register of member's interests does not require financial details of partner's/spouses . |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 19:41:10 GMT
then if that is the case the same standard not being applied as MP's and that is wrong, no issue with that.
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