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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 7:50:16 GMT
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Jan 25, 2021 8:33:32 GMT
I suppose you could call my Denbigh seat 'Clwyd West' and my Prestatyn seat 'Vale of Clwyd' for continuity purposes, if you were so inclined.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 8:35:50 GMT
I suppose you could call my Denbigh seat 'Clwyd West' and my Prestatyn seat 'Vale of Clwyd' for continuity purposes, if you were so inclined. I think putting "Clwyd" to bed is fine. Just noticed how nobody was using it, is all. |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Jan 25, 2021 9:10:03 GMT
Well, Denbighshire could be called Vale of Clwyd, but if it's coterminous with the LA (and the LA doesn't have a stupid 1974 name), then really it's tidier to just call it Denbighshire. |
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Post by minionofmidas on Jan 25, 2021 13:34:21 GMT
Here's an alternative for North Wales and Powys which instead groups Powys and Wrexham on the one hand and Flintshire, Denbighshire, Conwy and Gwynedd on the other, thus avoiding a seat stretching from the English border to the west coast. Perhaps minionofmidas will prefer this version?  11. Colwyn Bay & Rhyl (72,268). This time the seat based on the coastal resorts is a little further east, crossing into the Denbighshire UA. Llansannan might be better in the following seat. 12. Bangor a Chonwy (70,643). Conwy, Llandudno and rural Conwy together with the Bangor area. 13. Caernarfon a Meirionnydd (69,803). 14. Brecon, Radnor & Newtown (72,566). In this version I oriented the Montgomeryshire part of this more to the south than east. 15. Denbigh & Flint (70,768). Northern Flintshire and the Denbigh area of its UA. 16. Alyn & Deeside (70,652). An expansion of the existing seat. 17. Wrexham (72,977). This does seem to give a neater arrangement for Wrexham, but... 18. Berwyn (71,605). This version's monstrosity: most of Montgomeryshire, Denbighshire as far north as Ruthin, and the Ruabon area. I suppose quota pressures force Machynlleth into the Glyndwr ( (c) first zombie review) seat? It doesn't fit well in Montgomeryshire no matter how but it's on the Aberystwyth-Newtown railroad line. (But hey, Glyndwr's parliament met here.) Not 100% certain that it would be considered an improvement (and it's inevitably not perfect either way), but is it possible to switch Rhyl and the Clwyd Valley towns? |
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Post by minionofmidas on Jan 25, 2021 13:44:20 GMT
Meirionydd a Chaernarfon/Merioneth & Carnarvon (69,800) Dips into Cardiganshire and borrows two Powys wards, which will probably meet with some consternation. But needs must as it limps into quota, and at least it doesn't come close to touching Gobowen. Crossing both borders and not even for the purposes of uniting Aberystwyth's hinterland? I think "brave" is the adjective I'd use. |
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YL
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Post by YL on Jan 25, 2021 17:42:27 GMT
I suppose quota pressures force Machynlleth into the Glyndwr ( (c) first zombie review) seat? It doesn't fit well in Montgomeryshire no matter how but it's on the Aberystwyth-Newtown railroad line. (But hey, Glyndwr's parliament met here.) I couldn't find a non-ridiculous map that put both Machynlleth and Newtown in the southern seat. Unfortunately I think there's bound to be a constituency containing some places in Montgomeryshire and places you'd never think they'd be in the same constituency as. No, Rhyl and Prestatyn are too big. Personally I think it makes sense to have a constituency made up largely of the coastal towns, but I get the impression not everyone agrees with me. |
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Post by minionofmidas on Jan 25, 2021 18:32:40 GMT
I suppose quota pressures force Machynlleth into the Glyndwr ( (c) first zombie review) seat? It doesn't fit well in Montgomeryshire no matter how but it's on the Aberystwyth-Newtown railroad line. (But hey, Glyndwr's parliament met here.) I couldn't find a non-ridiculous map that put both Machynlleth and Newtown in the southern seat. Unfortunately I think there's bound to be a constituency containing some places in Montgomeryshire and places you'd never think they'd be in the same constituency as. No, Rhyl and Prestatyn are too big. Personally I think it makes sense to have a constituency made up largely of the coastal towns, but I get the impression not everyone agrees with me. i was trying to improve seat 15. There certainly is a logic behind a coastal towns seat (though the whole stretch from Rhyl Prestatyn to Llandudno is far too large anyways). What if you only move Prestatyn? Too small? |
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Post by johnloony on Jan 26, 2021 17:46:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2021 18:04:06 GMT
A great reset, John.
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YL
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Post by YL on Jan 28, 2021 9:09:34 GMT
I couldn't find a non-ridiculous map that put both Machynlleth and Newtown in the southern seat. Unfortunately I think there's bound to be a constituency containing some places in Montgomeryshire and places you'd never think they'd be in the same constituency as. No, Rhyl and Prestatyn are too big. Personally I think it makes sense to have a constituency made up largely of the coastal towns, but I get the impression not everyone agrees with me. i was trying to improve seat 15. There certainly is a logic behind a coastal towns seat (though the whole stretch from Rhyl Prestatyn to Llandudno is far too large anyways). What if you only move Prestatyn? Too small? Sorry, missed this question. Prestatyn could move, but I'm not seeing a particularly nice way of dividing up the rest of the Denbighshire UA that way. Prestatyn is indeed too small to swap it with the whole inland area. |
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Post by islington on Feb 15, 2021 15:52:16 GMT
Let's see how this flies. If nothing else, at least I'll learn how to say 'pitchfork' in Welsh.   Flintshire / Wrexham - 215481 = 2.94 = 3 seats
North Flintshire - 71993. South Flintshire - 72569. Wrexham - 70919.
Denbighshire - 74078 = 1.01 = 1 seat
Denbighshire - 74078.
Conwy / Gwynedd / Powys = 281723 = 3.84 = 4 seats
Conwy - 70229. Caernarvon - 70196.
Meirionnydd and Montgomery - 70384. Although the mixture of languages feels a little odd.
Brecon and Radnor - 70914.
Ceredigion / Pembrokeshire = 150883 = 2.06 = 2 seats
Ceredigion - 74412. I think of this as named after the town rather than the LA, so should it be 'Cardigan'? Pembroke - 76471.
Carmarthenshire = 142578 = 1.94 = 2 seats
Carmarthen - 70211. Llanelli - 72367.
Swansea / NPT / Bridgend / VoG / Cardiff / RCT / MT = 966317 = 13.17 = 13 seats
Gower - 73725. Or 'West Glamorgan'?
Swansea - 76488. Swansea Valley - 76892. Really my names here are complete stabs in the dark so I'm bracing myself to be told how utterly wrong they are. Neath - 75185.
Bridgend - 75533. Barry - 74938. Or 'South Glamorgan'? Or 'Vale of Glamorgan'? Edited to add: Since posting I've spotted that this seat has room for Peterston ward, which would mean the two RCT wards are out on less of a limb. With this addition - 76793.
Cardiff West and Penarth - 72302. Edited to add: Losing Peterston would take this down to 70447.
Cardiff Central - 72414. Cardiff East - 70333.
Cardiff North - 70627.
Pontypridd - 76271. Rhondda and Ogmore Vale - 76804.
Merthyr Tydfil and Aberdare - 74805.
BG / Caerphilly / Newport = 295930 = 4.03 = 4 seats
Ebbw Vale - 73114. If it was good enough for Michael Foot ... Caerphilly - 74972. Newport West - 71685.
Newport East - 76159.
Torfaen = 70591 = 0.96 = 1 seat
Pontypool and Cwmbran - 70591. I know this isn't what it would actually be called, but is 'Torfaen' even a place?
Monmouthshire = 72681 = 0.99 = 1 seat
Monmouth - 72681.
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Post by minionofmidas on Feb 15, 2021 17:39:08 GMT
Let's see how this flies. If nothing else, at least I'll learn how to say 'pitchfork' in Welsh. Seems to be a Saxon loanword. Bicfforch. You'll run into them with *all* of your alterations to the Meirionydd & Powys Wenwynwyn design (along with the inevitable ones for either doing that at all or crossing the Berwyns instead). Though I shall assume the intentions in making the seat slightly Plaidier were entirely honorary. ;D |
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YL
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Post by YL on Feb 15, 2021 18:41:42 GMT
Ceredigion - 74412. I think of this as named after the town rather than the LA, so should it be 'Cardigan'? If it were named after the town, it would presumably be "Aberteifi". |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Feb 15, 2021 20:45:49 GMT
Let's see how this flies. If nothing else, at least I'll learn how to say 'pitchfork' in Welsh. Seems to be a Saxon loanword. Bicfforch. You'll run into them with *all* of your alterations to the Meirionydd & Powys Wenwynwyn design (along with the inevitable ones for either doing that at all or crossing the Berwyns instead). Though I shall assume the intentions in making the seat slightly Plaidier were entirely honorary. ;D Actually, islington will discover that we won't even agree on what the word for a pitchfork is. If one probes further, one will find that some people hold that a "pigau" is a subtly different agricultural implement from a "pigwarch" (or variants), depending on whether it's being used as a fforch wair or a fforch dail. Whether the hay or the manure version is more effective for use on boundary commissioners is also presumably a matter for debate. And then clever linguists make their own maps...  |
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Post by islington on Feb 15, 2021 21:08:06 GMT
Ceredigion - 74412. I think of this as named after the town rather than the LA, so should it be 'Cardigan'? If it were named after the town, it would presumably be "Aberteifi". Two questions -
- If the town is called 'Aberteifi' in Welsh and 'Cardigan' in English, what's the point of this strange word 'Ceredigion' to which we've had to accustom ourselves in the last few years?
- And what's the Welsh for 'Did anyone have an opinion about merits, or lack thereof, of the actual scheme?'?
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Feb 15, 2021 21:12:29 GMT
If the town is called 'Aberteifi' in Welsh and 'Cardigan' in English, what's the point of this strange word 'Ceredigion' to which we've had to accustom ourselves in the last few years? In Welsh, Ceredigion is the name of the county but not of the town, that's all. Cardigan is an anglicisation of Ceredigion. Not everything is kulturkampf, thank God. |
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nodealbrexiteer
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Feb 15, 2021 21:29:56 GMT
The Welsh review reminded me of the cruel Saturday Night Armistice joke boundary review where London was given 600 seats and Wales was dubbed the 'West of England'.
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Feb 15, 2021 21:53:36 GMT
Prioritising no split of Denbighshire as islington has done leaves you with 4 really tidy seats in North East Wales, but it comes at the expense of creating a 'Costa Geriatrica' constituency and a seat that stretches all the way from Bardsey Island to Coedway. The Commission wanted to avoid the latter when mainland Wales was only entitled to 28 and a bit seats, so I doubt they'll go for it now it's going to get 31. Giving Monmouthshire and Torfaen the same treatment doesn't have to cause as many issues elsewhere. I think treating Carmarthenshire on its own for 2 seats works well, but the Pembrokeshire North & Cardiganshire constituency could be a tad neater. I broadly agree with the arrangements in Swansea, Newport and the 'most of Powys' seat, but Cardiff and especially the Valleys could use a bit more tweaking. |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Feb 15, 2021 21:56:10 GMT
If it were named after the town, it would presumably be "Aberteifi". Two questions -
- If the town is called 'Aberteifi' in Welsh and 'Cardigan' in English, what's the point of this strange word 'Ceredigion' to which we've had to accustom ourselves in the last few years?
A lot of names for areas of Wales are in the form personal name + ending (cf Morgannwg, Brycheiniog, etc). So in this instance, the question is "Who was Ceredig?" Of course with that sort of legendary history, legends get retold. The regular name of the county also exists in Welsh – Sir Aberteifi – it's a bit like the East Lothian and Haddingtonshire being two names for the same place issue. Okay, I'll bite: 1) bisecting Llŷn so that Nefyn and Pwllheli are in different constituencies would be very, very pitchforky 2) bisecting Montgomeryshire... you're brave! 3) I know it looks sensible on a map to put Maenclochog in with North Pembrokeshire, but it really, really isn't – much better to stay north of the mountains and keep going all the way to St David's 4) splitting Ammanford from the Amman Valley is another "looks neat on the map", but is very much sub-optimal 5) I'm glad you got Mayals into Gower where it belongs 6) splitting off Mawr from Clydach isn't good 7) oh my goodness, drawing a boundary along the River Neath through Neath... (And the Swansea Valley name would be *very* pitchforky) 8) do the numbers not work for swapping Llanharan and Tonyrefail? (Broadly speaking, I like the backwards-L-shaped Pontypridd – it's a neat idea) 9) Pontyclun in the Vale would go down very well in Pontyclun (you'd get the sort of irrelevant objections about moving the local authority boundary), but it's a bit messy excluding Peterston like that – the ward contains a chunk of the A4222 between Cowbridge and Pontyclun (ah, I see you spotted this with your edit!) 10) Ely and Penarth – not a combination I'd have thought of – doesn't mean it's necessarily bad – it's just a bit odd 11) Cardiff North looks like a Torymander of old (shame you couldn't get Old St Mellon's in) – it probably wouldn't work these days 12) Caerphilly looks messy on a map, but makes sense 13) splitting Bettws from Malpas in Newport isn't good 14) I very much like that you've given the three in-range local authorities their own constituencies. |
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