xenon
Forum Regular
Posts: 429
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Post by xenon on Feb 13, 2022 22:02:30 GMT
I've had a go at putting together a Perth and Kinross-based seat to see if there is a possible counterproposal to allay the concerns of the Kinross residents who opposed the Fife link. I think this demonstrates why adding Kinross-shire to Fife is the "least-worse" option – at the end of the day, it only has an electorate of 10,000 or so, and in my opinion them being unhappy with being linked with Fife is a fair enough price to pay for not splitting dozens of towns and wards across much of the Scotland in order to keep them in a seat with Perthshire. The most sensible solution would be to add all of the Kinross-shire to North East Fife as suggested above, so hopefully the Commission can offer this as a compromise and not get totally pitchforked again when they publish their revised proposals. As for Moray, you can make the whole of Grampian work nicely without reaching into Angus by moving Lower Deeside into the West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine seat, and shifting the boundary between the two Aberdeen seats accordingly. |
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piperdave
SNP
Dalkeith; Midlothian/North & Musselburgh
Posts: 911
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Post by piperdave on Feb 13, 2022 22:16:52 GMT
Resurrecting Tayside North was something I looked at as well but then I remembered no one shed a tear when it was abolished.
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Post by aidanthomson on Feb 14, 2022 7:29:59 GMT
I've had a go at putting together a Perth and Kinross-based seat to see if there is a possible counterproposal to allay the concerns of the Kinross residents who opposed the Fife link. I think this demonstrates why adding Kinross-shire to Fife is the "least-worse" option – at the end of the day, it only has an electorate of 10,000 or so, and in my opinion them being unhappy with being linked with Fife is a fair enough price to pay for not splitting dozens of towns and wards across much of the Scotland in order to keep them in a seat with Perthshire. The most sensible solution would be to add all of the Kinross-shire to North East Fife as suggested above, so hopefully the Commission can offer this as a compromise and not get totally pitchforked again when they publish their revised proposals. Very much my feeling, and very much the spirit with which I came up with this arrangement. (That and an attempt to see if it was even possible to come up with a solution that didn't link Kinross and Fife.) There may be better solutions that link Kinross with Perthshire and not Fife, but I certainly can't think of one. And as this is demonstrably bad, and worse than the Kinross/North East Fife alternative, it's a non-starter. Indeed, and I think I did that at one point upthread! 🙂 |
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Post by carolus on Oct 11, 2022 8:12:08 GMT
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nyx
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,067
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Post by nyx on Nov 8, 2022 0:22:03 GMT
www.bcs2023review.com/Dundee got essentially reduced to one seat. Not sure why they're keeping the "Dundee West" and "Dundee East" names...
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Post by bjornhattan on Nov 8, 2022 0:24:41 GMT
Auchterarder and Denny might be one of the worst pairings I've ever seen. There's a massive escarpment, wide river valley, and several motorways betwee them...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 6:13:35 GMT
Some of those names!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 6:18:08 GMT
Aberdeen North |
Aberdeen South |
Aberdeenshire Central |
Aberdeenshire North and Moray East |
Airdrie |
Argyll, Bute and South Lochaber |
Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock |
Bathgate and Linlithgow |
Bearsden and Campsie Fells |
Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk |
Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross |
Central Ayrshire |
Clackmannanshire and Forth Valley |
Coatbridge and Bellshill |
Dumfries and Galloway |
Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale |
Dundee East and Arbroath |
Dundee West |
Dunfermline and East Ochils |
East Kilbride and Strathaven |
East Lothian and Lammermuirs |
East Renfrewshire |
Edinburgh East |
Edinburgh North and Leith |
Edinburgh South |
Edinburgh South West |
Edinburgh West |
Falkirk |
Glasgow North |
Glasgow North East |
Glasgow South |
Glasgow South East |
Glasgow South West |
Glasgow West |
Glenrothes |
Hamilton and Clyde Valley |
Inverclyde and Renfrewshire West |
Inverness-shire and Wester Ross |
Kilmarnock and Loudoun |
Kilsyth Hills and Cumbernauld |
Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath |
Livingston |
Midlothian |
Motherwell and Clydesdale North |
Na h-Eileanan an Iar |
Nairn, Strathspey and Moray West |
North Ayrshire and Arran |
North East Fife |
North Tayside |
Orkney and Shetland |
Paisley and Renfrewshire North |
Paisley and Renfrewshire South |
Perth and Loch Leven |
Rutherglen |
Stirling |
West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine |
West Dunbartonshire
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clyde1998
SNP
Green (E&W) member; SNP supporter
Posts: 1,765 
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Post by clyde1998 on Nov 8, 2022 6:26:26 GMT
The order of cardinal directions in the names is annoying me to begin with - I see Aberdeenshire North and Moray East; Aberdeenshire Central; West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine; North Tayside - and that's not even the worst things about the names... |
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clyde1998
SNP
Green (E&W) member; SNP supporter
Posts: 1,765
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Post by clyde1998 on Nov 8, 2022 6:31:48 GMT
Auchterarder and Denny might be one of the worst pairings I've ever seen. There's a massive escarpment, wide river valley, and several motorways betwee them... That one is shouting "this is what was left over after we drew the boundaries for elsewhere". |
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xenon
Forum Regular
Posts: 429
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Post by xenon on Nov 8, 2022 7:31:18 GMT
My initial thoughts are "better but not brilliant". At least the weird Dundee panhandles have gone, although the names could do with some work in several areas.
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Post by afleitch on Nov 8, 2022 9:07:34 GMT
They adopted a proposal I made for Glasgow.
Much better proposals than the first attempt...except around Clackmannan. That's just dreadful.
While the north east was tidied up, they've still limited themselves by keeping two seats wholly in Aberdeen.
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Post by aidanthomson on Nov 8, 2022 11:52:49 GMT
They adopted a proposal I made for Glasgow. Much better proposals than the first attempt...except around Clackmannan. That's just dreadful. While the north east was tidied up, they've still limited themselves by keeping two seats wholly in Aberdeen. I agree with this. Splitting Moray in two is better than in three but the Banff coastal seat could do easily have been avoided had they moved one Aberdeen ward out of the city. The Clackmannan seat is not unlike the one that I created upthread in the spirit of 'here's how not to do it', but, remarkably, is even worse. The problem stems from their response to the pitchforkers of Kinross. The original objections to Kinross were: a) it was linked to Fife b) it was split between two seats c) most of it was linked to Glenrothes, with which it had nothing in common b) and c) could be avoided if the principle of a) were accepted. The Commission's solution is worse than before, however: Kinross is still split between two seats; it is now also split between two authorities; a small part of it is still in a Fife seat, and specifically in Glenrothes. So, not good in itself, and very poor given the knock-on effects. Elsewhere: 1. The Glasgow boundaries look far better than before. I'd maybe have redrawn Central in conjunction with North, not East, but as that would have split the west end among three seats it is certainly not flawless as a solution. 2. The Stepps/Kilsyth swap in the East Dunbartonshire seats is interesting, and one that I had thought about. I'd also consider swapping Lenzie for Lennoxtown and Milton of Campsie. While separating Kirkintilloch and Lenzie is sub-optimal, it is closer to minimum change. 3. The West Lothian changes make sense. 4. I can't remember what the original proposals were for Edinburgh West and North/Leith, but the arrangement here, with Muirhouse in the same seat as Pilton and Granton, and Dean with Murrayfield and Blackhall, looks sensible. Re constituency names: some are good, but plenty aren't. Why not Cumbernauld and Strathkelvin? – seems better than Kilsyth Hills etc. If the Dunfermline seat has to stay as proposed then why not Dunfermline and Dollar, or Dunfermline and Strathdevon? Banff and Peterhead would be less clumsy than what was proposed. And North Tayside could be more imaginative: Atholl and Strathmore, perhaps. |
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Post by afleitch on Nov 8, 2022 12:21:27 GMT
Yeah. It's possible to reinstate the original proposals for Clackmannan; swap out Auchterarder to Perth for Kinross by adding all of Kinross to Fife (to stop effects north of Perth) and rework Fife, even creating a Dunfermline and Kinross seat. There would probably be a split in Kirkcaldy town but perhaps only involving Dysart, so quite neat.
Otherwise Clackmannan is just a 'bits left over' seat.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 8, 2022 12:28:40 GMT
Yeah. It's possible to reinstate the original proposals for Clackmannan; swap out Auchterarder to Perth for Kinross by adding all of Kinross to Fife (to stop effects north of Perth) and rework Fife, even creating a Dunfermline and Kinross seat. There would probably be a split in Kirkcaldy town but perhaps only involving Dysart, so quite neat. Otherwise Clackmannan is just a 'bits left over' seat. I don't think you need a Dunfermline & Kinross seat - you can put Kinross in with NE Fife, which is middle-class enough that they won't object. Use the existing split of Leven, Kennoway and Largo and then you just need to shift a few thousand electors from Kirkcaldy to Cowdenbeath (most of whom are already in the former before realignment to new ward boundaries.) |
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Post by loderingo on Nov 8, 2022 13:00:38 GMT
Auchterarder and Denny might be one of the worst pairings I've ever seen. There's a massive escarpment, wide river valley, and several motorways betwee them... The name doesn’t make it sound as bad. They should rename it Forth Banks to highlight the true awfulness! |
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Post by aidanthomson on Nov 8, 2022 13:44:32 GMT
Auchterarder and Denny might be one of the worst pairings I've ever seen. There's a massive escarpment, wide river valley, and several motorways betwee them... The name doesn’t make it sound as bad. They should rename it Forth Banks to highlight the true awfulness! How about "Forth Banks and Ochil Slopes"? |
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Post by afleitch on Nov 8, 2022 15:11:15 GMT
Yeah. It's possible to reinstate the original proposals for Clackmannan; swap out Auchterarder to Perth for Kinross by adding all of Kinross to Fife (to stop effects north of Perth) and rework Fife, even creating a Dunfermline and Kinross seat. There would probably be a split in Kirkcaldy town but perhaps only involving Dysart, so quite neat. Otherwise Clackmannan is just a 'bits left over' seat. I don't think you need a Dunfermline & Kinross seat - you can put Kinross in with NE Fife, which is middle-class enough that they won't object. Use the existing split of Leven, Kennoway and Largo and then you just need to shift a few thousand electors from Kirkcaldy to Cowdenbeath (most of whom are already in the former before realignment to new ward boundaries.) Yeah that works. I've even managed to reduce ward splits in Fife to just two. |
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Post by afleitch on Nov 8, 2022 15:17:33 GMT
For what it's worth, the new Moray seat the best you can do with the Commission not adjusting WAB or a cross border seat with Aberdeen.
You could tidy it up, though the numbers are tight, by realigning the boundary along the old Moray and Banffshire County boundary. That would give 'Aberdeenshire North and Banff' a splindlier shape but it's essentially just the old Banff and Aberdeenshire East seats less Mid Buchan.
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Post by aidanthomson on Nov 8, 2022 23:22:42 GMT
I don't think you need a Dunfermline & Kinross seat - you can put Kinross in with NE Fife, which is middle-class enough that they won't object. Use the existing split of Leven, Kennoway and Largo and then you just need to shift a few thousand electors from Kirkcaldy to Cowdenbeath (most of whom are already in the former before realignment to new ward boundaries.) Yeah that works. I've even managed to reduce ward splits in Fife to just two. The one disadvantage is that it splits Leven between two seats, which may be one reason why the Commission haven't proposed it. A couple of alternatives: a) My upthread proposal (6 Feb at 4.40), which splits two wards. Inverkeithing/Dalgety Bay is split between Dunfermline (Inverkeithing, North Queensferry) and Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath (the rest). Leven et al. is split between North East Fife/Kinross (Largo, Kennoway) and Glenrothes (Leven). b) If Kennoway and all of Leven were to be included in Glenrothes, which is probably the best community fit, then North East Fife/Kinross ends up about 500 below the minimum electorate and Glenrothes ends up about 150 above the maximum. But a couple of minor ward splits could solve that problem: - A small part of Lumphinnans community council is in Lochgelly ward (provisionally in Glenrothes), whereas most of it is in Cowdenbeath ward (provisionally in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath). If the bit of Lumphinnans in Lochgelly ward were moved into Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath, then Glenrothes would be within the quota range.
- If Abernethy community council (currently in Almond and Earn ward, so provisionally in a seat with Perth) were moved into North East Fife/Kinross, then that seat would also be within the quota range.
It would mean four ward splits rather than two, but that is hardly excessive given what the Commission has done elsewhere. |
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