johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Jun 28, 2023 22:51:10 GMT
I have long disliked the existence of pompous names instead of geographical names in the south coast towns. Southampton Test and Southampton Itchen should be S. West and S. East. Plymouth should have North and South (or whatever) instead of “Sutton” and “Devonport” etc. Brighton should have East and West instead of Kemp Town and Pavilion.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 28, 2023 23:10:33 GMT
I have long disliked the existence of pompous names instead of geographical names in the south coast towns. Southampton Test and Southampton Itchen should be S. West and S. East. Plymouth should have North and South (or whatever) instead of “Sutton” and “Devonport” etc. Brighton should have East and West instead of Kemp Town and Pavilion. I think you should live in a parallel universe somewhere along with doktorb and sirbenjamin and one or two others and the BCE where you can come up with fuckwitted and/or boring constituency names to your hearts content and without having to impose them on the majority of normal decent people. |
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Jun 29, 2023 0:03:25 GMT
I have long disliked the existence of pompous names instead of geographical names in the south coast towns. Southampton Test and Southampton Itchen should be S. West and S. East. Plymouth should have North and South (or whatever) instead of “Sutton” and “Devonport” etc. Brighton should have East and West instead of Kemp Town and Pavilion. I think you should live in a parallel universe somewhere along with doktorb and sirbenjamin and one or two others and the BCE where you can come up with fuckwitted and/or boring constituency names to your hearts content and without having to impose them on the majority of normal decent people. It's a funny one for me because even I'm raising my eyebrows at some of the decisions made during this 'round'. I think we've covered a lot of ground here before, and for me there are some varied and borderline contradictory factors at play: *The Commission(ers) are not geeks, obsessives, or otherwise deeply invested in the job at hand. There may not be the weight of history on their shoulders as they make decisions on boundaries, never mind names. *More than ever, MPs fel it's important to name check every community within their constituency to display some kind of connection with voters. *The government of the day only cares about winning elections and setting the rules accordingly. Boundaries matter. Names really don't. *The name of a place - be it locality, council, constituency - does resonate with people even if it doesn't appear so. When new councils are formed, naming them becomes a "thing". When the major local government reforms happened, particularly with London boroughs, names became an important debating point. Authorities sometimes get it wrong on both fronts: choosing a generic name can be wrong just as choosing a specific set of names can be. *The Commission(ers) are perhaps exhausted after three attempts at a job they don't really enjoy. So if they get enough worthies writing to them obsessed by the need to add Lower Thingy to a constituency name, they're likely to just shrug their shoulders and accept it. My broad opinion, going back years if not a decade now, is that constituency names must reflect and represent the communities within their borders. A hard and set rule. I see this time that the Commissions have gone so deep alongside me in this regard that I'm not sure if they haven't got enough spelunking equipment to get them out of there and into safety. I'm not backtracking. I'm perhaps getting older and less stubborn. Or maybe I've always been a bit bendy. Anyway, up with hard and fast rules, though maybe down with "Blackley and Middleton South" |
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YL
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Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
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Post by YL on Jun 29, 2023 6:34:45 GMT
None of the names in this region really strike me as cumbersome in the way that "Birmingham Hodge Hill & Solihull North" does. There are a handful I don't like: I don't like "North East Somerset & Hanham", mainly because it doesn't include anything like all of North East Somerset (however defined), but it is also probably the most cumbersome name in the region; I would have gone for Keynsham & Hanham, naming the largest communities on either side of the county boundary. I also don't like "South Cotswolds", because too much of it just isn't really in the Cotswolds.
There are also a few name changes to more or less unchanged constituencies, which I think there should be a very good reason for. It's not clear that there's actually much of a policy other than responding to people who make a fuss: why does "Totnes" disappear to be replaced by "South Devon", while at the same time "West Devon" goes the other direction and is replaced by "Tavistock"?
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sirbenjamin
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True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
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Post by sirbenjamin on Jun 29, 2023 10:16:43 GMT
I have long disliked the existence of pompous names instead of geographical names in the south coast towns. Southampton Test and Southampton Itchen should be S. West and S. East. Plymouth should have North and South (or whatever) instead of “Sutton” and “Devonport” etc. Brighton should have East and West instead of Kemp Town and Pavilion. I think you should live in a parallel universe somewhere along with doktorb and sirbenjamin and one or two others and the BCE where you can come up with fuckwitted and/or boring constituency names to your hearts content and without having to impose them on the majority of normal decent people. When the actual cuntfuck have I ever complained about Southampton Test/Itchen or similar? [UA name]+[locale/river/something poetic] is my *favourite* type of seat name FFS. I submitted a proposal a few years back to change all the Glasgow and Edinburgh compass-point seat names back! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2023 10:27:27 GMT
None of the names in this region really strike me as cumbersome in the way that "Birmingham Hodge Hill & Solihull North" does. There are a handful I don't like: I don't like "North East Somerset & Hanham", mainly because it doesn't include anything like all of North East Somerset (however defined), but it is also probably the most cumbersome name in the region; I would have gone for Keynsham & Hanham, naming the largest communities on either side of the county boundary. I also don't like "South Cotswolds", because too much of it just isn't really in the Cotswolds. There are also a few name changes to more or less unchanged constituencies, which I think there should be a very good reason for. It's not clear that there's actually much of a policy other than responding to people who make a fuss: why does "Totnes" disappear to be replaced by "South Devon", while at the same time "West Devon" goes the other direction and is replaced by "Tavistock"? Most of the South Cotswolds seat is in the local authority and/or the AONB of the same name, however Cirencester & North Wiltshire would have worked to. I dislike county names as they feel like the boundary commission simply couldn't be bothered to find a proper name, but in the two Devon cases I think they are actually better |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 29, 2023 10:36:54 GMT
I meant to respond earlier but I would like to know why you disagree. It would avoid ludicrous names like 'Bury South' where Whitefield would suffice as a much better name. Similarly Durham North, and Durham North West. I feel very strongly that constituencies should be described in terms of local authorities, as neatly and consistently as possible. Consequently, Bury is one of the relatively few areas that I absolutely wouldn't complain about at the moment! The borough of Bury is divided into Bury North and Bury South. These two seats contain the entirety of the borough, with nothing else added and nothing left over. Perfect. Not ludicrous at all. About as elegant as it could possibly be, in fact.
There aren't that many parts of the country where this happens as cleanly as this. (I'd also be happy if each seat within the borough had a unique name, like Putney, Battersea and Tooting do within Wandsworth, for example, but Wandsworth NE, NW and S would be OK in that instance.)
Now, if you think that the Bury local authority should perhaps have a different name, or have different boundaries, I might agree, but that's a problem with the name of the underlying authority, not the constituencies. For example, if the local authority were to be called 'Irwell', and the two seats were called 'Bury' and 'Radcliffe & Prestwich' or something, I'd be fine with that.
It's the inconsistency of the way in which names are used that I particularly despise. Bury, Wigan, Ipswich, Leeds, Hackney, all handling the local authority name differently from one another.
Ilford North isn't so bad - it does still mostly contain areas that were in the pre-64 borough of Ilford and I'm not sure of what other name would be more appropriate? Gants Hill is the only name I can think of that would be vaguely appropriate for the area but it wouldn't be an improvement IMO Clearly it should be Redbridge North. There is no one settlement dominating and it contains solely wards from the northern part of the borough of Redbridge.
I didn't say that you advocated the same fuckwitted names as johnloony - just that you have a similarly fuckwitted attitude to constituency names |
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YL
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Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Jun 29, 2023 16:09:24 GMT
None of the names in this region really strike me as cumbersome in the way that "Birmingham Hodge Hill & Solihull North" does. There are a handful I don't like: I don't like "North East Somerset & Hanham", mainly because it doesn't include anything like all of North East Somerset (however defined), but it is also probably the most cumbersome name in the region; I would have gone for Keynsham & Hanham, naming the largest communities on either side of the county boundary. I also don't like "South Cotswolds", because too much of it just isn't really in the Cotswolds. There are also a few name changes to more or less unchanged constituencies, which I think there should be a very good reason for. It's not clear that there's actually much of a policy other than responding to people who make a fuss: why does "Totnes" disappear to be replaced by "South Devon", while at the same time "West Devon" goes the other direction and is replaced by "Tavistock"? Most of the South Cotswolds seat is in the local authority and/or the AONB of the same name, however Cirencester & North Wiltshire would have worked to. I dislike county names as they feel like the boundary commission simply couldn't be bothered to find a proper name, but in the two Devon cases I think they are actually better Most of the Wiltshire component of South Cotswolds isn't in the AONB: it's only really a strip along the western border of the county which is. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Aug 17, 2023 21:31:00 GMT
South West region increases from 55 to 58 seats, and parts see major changes. Two seats are unchanged: Forest of Dean, and North Devon. Analysing the changes was particularly difficult due to the lack of accurate polling district information from Wiltshire, but I'm confident the statistics are as close to accurate as possible. Two constituencies are not the base for any new constituency: Kingswood and North Wiltshire. Kingswood goes 47.3% to North East Somerset and Hanham, 35.8% to Bristol North East, 16.5% to Filton and Bradley Stoke and 0.5% to Thornbury and Yate. North Wiltshire goes 45.6% to Chippenham, 44.1% to South Cotswolds and 10.3% to Melksham and Devies. Five current constituencies are the base for two new constituencies: * Bristol East forms 59.9% of the new Bristol East, and 41.3% of Bristol North East * Chippenham forms 52.1% of the new Chippenham, and 50.4% of Melksham and Devizea * Somerton and Frome forms 67.4% of Glastonbury and Somerton, and 55.1% of Frome and East Somerset * The Cotswolds forms 51.3% of North Cotswolds and 55.4% of South Cotswolds * Tiverton and Honiton forms 69.1% of Honiton and Sidmouth, and 44.5% of Tiverton and Minehead. The Index of Change for altered constituencies is: | Constituency | Index of Change | | Bournemouth East BC | 0.1 | | Newton Abbot CC | 0.2 | | South East Cornwall CC | 0.7 | | Central Devon CC | 2.8 | | Christchurch CC | 3.0 | | St Ives CC | 3.8 | | Poole BC | 4.1 | | Plymouth Sutton and Devonport BC | 5.2 | | Plymouth Moor View BC | 5.8 | | Cheltenham BC | 5.9 | | Gloucester BC | 5.9 | | South Devon CC | 6.3 | | North Cornwall CC | 6.7 | | Bournemouth West BC | 7.6 | | Torridge and Tavistock CC | 7.7 | | Yeovil CC | 8.1 | | Bath CC | 8.5 | | St Austell and Newquay CC | 8.5 | | South Dorset CC | 8.5 | | North Somerset CC | 8.5 | | West Dorset CC | 9.0 | | North Dorset CC | 9.6 | | Thornbury and Yate CC | 10.9 | | Bristol South BC | 11.7 | | Swindon North CC | 12.6 | | South West Devon CC | 12.7 | | Taunton and Wellington CC | 12.9 | | Exeter BC | 13.0 | | Mid Dorset and North Poole CC | 13.6 | | Truro and Falmouth CC | 14.1 | | Weston-super-Mare CC | 15.2 | | Camborne and Redruth CC | 16.7 | | South West Wiltshire CC | 18.5 | | Stroud CC | 22.4 | | Bristol North West BC | 23.7 | | Salisbury CC | 29.1 | | Swindon South BC | 29.2 | | Bristol Central BC | 29.7 | | Filton and Bradley Stoke BC | 34.8 | | Tewkesbury CC | 36.3 | | Exmouth and Exeter East CC | 40.6 | | Bridgwater CC | 60.5 | | Honiton and Sidmouth CC | 65.7 | | East Wiltshire CC | 69.9 | | Glastonbury and Somerton CC | 71.7 | | Wells and Mendip Hills CC | 75.1 | | Bristol East BC | 79.7 | | North East Somerset and Hanham CC | 89.4 | | South Cotswolds CC | 90.4 | | Frome and East Somerset CC | 91.7 | | Chippenham CC | 96.1 | | North Cotswolds CC | 97.7 | | Melksham and Devizes CC | 99.2 | | Tiverton and Minehead CC | 109.5 | | Bristol North East BC | 116.4 |
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nyx
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Post by nyx on Sept 6, 2024 15:54:11 GMT
Yes if that is the best alternative I'd hate to see the worst. This is in fact the best alternative Alternatively  The problem of the excess electorate in North Somerset is exacerbated by adding wards from South Gloucestershire to the NE Somerset seat. Without that it would only be necessary to detach the four ward in the Norton Radstock 'conurbation' to join Somerset. This in turn is a consequence of the unnecessary crossing of the boundary between Wiltshire and Gloucestershire, when a couple of judicious ward splits in Wiltshire could have maintained the existing seats virtually intact. Probably best not to go too far wiht this discussioj on this thread as there are other, dedicated threads. Without doubt though the South West overall was the most botched region in the boundary review. I think the disadvantage of that option is the question of Devon. Per the UK quota of 73,393 electors: Cornwall: 5.95 seats Devon: 12.53 quotas Dorset: 8.00 quotas Somerset UA: 5.80 quotas N Somerset: 2.24 quotas NE Somerset: 1.93 quotas Bristol: 4.57 quotas S Gloucestershire: 2.90 quotas Gloucestershire: 6.59 quotas Wiltshire: 7.27 quotas Total 57.80 quotas. 58 seats Your proposal would mean 10 Somerset seats (including N/NE Somerset), 6 Cornwall, 8 Dorset, 7 Wiltshire, 14 Gloucestershire+Bristol. That implies 13 seats entirely in Devon, which isn't technically impossible but would be difficult and messy so I think it's for the best that the Commission avoided that. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Sept 6, 2024 16:03:37 GMT
It is difficult but I thnk YL came up with a cdecent plan for a 13 seat Devon (it will be on this thread somewhere) |
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nyx
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Post by nyx on Sept 6, 2024 18:02:27 GMT
It is difficult but I thnk YL came up with a cdecent plan for a 13 seat Devon (it will be on this thread somewhere) Found it, it links up Tavistock with Exeter suburbs so needless to say isn't ideal! vote-2012.proboards.com/post/1043880/threadHaving had a bit of a play around I found an arrangement that wouldn't quite be as egregious as that, but still isn't ideal. Ultimately I don't think the Commission would have ever accepted a 13-seat Devon given the constraints of doing so, especially considering they crossed other county boundaries that it would have been easier to keep intact. Maybe next time if the numbers are less tight.  |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Sept 6, 2024 18:45:37 GMT
That Tavistock & Dartmoor seat isn't ideal as its author admits, but it isn't so different or so much worse than the current Central Devon seat. I think your Plymouth North & Tavistock is far worse and it isn't contiguous (you seem to like non-contiguous seats - your Paignton virtually is as well)
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nyx
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Post by nyx on Sept 7, 2024 0:02:29 GMT
That Tavistock & Dartmoor seat isn't ideal as its author admits, but it isn't so different or so much worse than the current Central Devon seat. I think your Plymouth North & Tavistock is far worse and it isn't contiguous (you seem to like non-contiguous seats - your Paignton virtually is as well) I didn't bother with the ward split tool but it is quite easy to move the area of South Hams west of the A386 (either no electors or very close to it) into Plymouth North and Tavistock; similarly easy with Paignton. The current Central Devon may be a bit sprawling, but it's not as bad as shoving Exeter suburbs in with Tavistock and Ivybridge... |
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Post by andrewp on Sept 7, 2024 8:23:03 GMT
That Tavistock & Dartmoor seat isn't ideal as its author admits, but it isn't so different or so much worse than the current Central Devon seat. I think your Plymouth North & Tavistock is far worse and it isn't contiguous (you seem to like non-contiguous seats - your Paignton virtually is as well) I didn't bother with the ward split tool but it is quite easy to move the area of South Hams west of the A386 (either no electors or very close to it) into Plymouth North and Tavistock; similarly easy with Paignton. The current Central Devon may be a bit sprawling, but it's not as bad as shoving Exeter suburbs in with Tavistock and Ivybridge... Although I would take the point about a seat stretching from Tavistock and Ivybridge to the edge of Exeter, there aren’t any Exeter suburbs beyond the city boundary in the Kenn Valley ward. |
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nyx
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Post by nyx on Sept 7, 2024 16:48:16 GMT
I didn't bother with the ward split tool but it is quite easy to move the area of South Hams west of the A386 (either no electors or very close to it) into Plymouth North and Tavistock; similarly easy with Paignton. The current Central Devon may be a bit sprawling, but it's not as bad as shoving Exeter suburbs in with Tavistock and Ivybridge... Although I would take the point about a seat stretching from Tavistock and Ivybridge to the edge of Exeter, there aren’t any Exeter suburbs beyond the city boundary in the Kenn Valley ward. Haldon Reach development under construction, plus Exminster if you count it. |
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john07
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Post by john07 on Sept 7, 2024 16:54:47 GMT
I have long disliked the existence of pompous names instead of geographical names in the south coast towns. Southampton Test and Southampton Itchen should be S. West and S. East. Plymouth should have North and South (or whatever) instead of “Sutton” and “Devonport” etc. Brighton should have East and West instead of Kemp Town and Pavilion. I’ll bet you were ‘ichin to post that? |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Sept 7, 2024 17:01:01 GMT
I have long disliked the existence of pompous names instead of geographical names in the south coast towns. Southampton Test and Southampton Itchen should be S. West and S. East. Plymouth should have North and South (or whatever) instead of “Sutton” and “Devonport” etc. Brighton should have East and West instead of Kemp Town and Pavilion. I’ll bet you were ‘ichin to post that? makes these kinds of posts purely to test our patience. I'd be keen to hear moor views on the topic |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Sept 9, 2024 15:54:33 GMT
For a thirteen seat Devon to be acceptable, it would have had to be compatible with the Plymouth ward split we got. In practical terms, I'm pretty sure it isn't, certainly not if you want a map that is otherwise tolerable.
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Post by islington on Sept 10, 2024 9:23:44 GMT
Enlargement of Plymouth -
 This was my submission for Devon. It assigns 13 whole seats to the county in a way I'm still pretty happy with (although on reflection I'd rejig Plymouth to avoid the ward split and I'd exchange Pinhoe and Priory wards in Exeter). |
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