|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 8, 2022 10:35:08 GMT
On the basis that if you can't get your way, you should at least be passive-aggressive about it, I suggest we all write in to propose that it be renamed Mid Avon.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 10:41:26 GMT
On the basis that if you can't get your way, you should at least be passive-aggressive about it, I suggest we all write in to propose that it be renamed Mid Avon.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,636
|
Post by The Bishop on Nov 8, 2022 14:31:10 GMT
The Tiverton and Minehead abomination survives, as does Mid Dorset & N Poole (the latter at least has the advantage of being an existing arrangement). Totnes is now Devon South for some reason despite still containing the eponymous town, the unnecessary South Cotswolds cross-county seat has an orphan ward from Stroud district, whilst the equally unneeded 'Somerset North East and Hanham' is compounded by a terrible name. Elsewhere, things look okay-to-good, mind you, so the Commissioners may be minded to dig their heels in about some of the more objectionable proposals for the sake of not messing with the decent constituencies too much. I think the thing is that they are quite reluctant to change things when they are supported by all the "qualifying political parties", and those did all support the BCE's subregions. I didn't expect much change here to be honest, and certainly I didn't expect my proposal to be adopted. "North East Somerset & Hanham" may not be the best name but it is better than the originally proposed name, which completely ignored the Gloucestershire component, and it's also better than the monstrous "North East Somerset & South Gloucestershire South" proposed by the Tories. Jesus Even the Scots might have blanched at that one.
|
|
|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 8, 2022 14:52:57 GMT
Surely it should have been North East Somerset and South South Gloucestershire, anyway?
|
|
|
Post by No Offence Alan on Nov 8, 2022 14:59:08 GMT
I think the thing is that they are quite reluctant to change things when they are supported by all the "qualifying political parties", and those did all support the BCE's subregions. I didn't expect much change here to be honest, and certainly I didn't expect my proposal to be adopted. "North East Somerset & Hanham" may not be the best name but it is better than the originally proposed name, which completely ignored the Gloucestershire component, and it's also better than the monstrous "North East Somerset & South Gloucestershire South" proposed by the Tories. Jesus Even the Scots might have blanched at that one. I still long for Clydebank & Milngavie in the Scottish Parliament to be renamed "West Dunbartonshire East and East Dunbartonshire West".
|
|
|
Post by andrewp on Nov 8, 2022 15:00:22 GMT
Surely it should have been North East Somerset and South South Gloucestershire, anyway? Using the council area geographies it could be West North East Somerset and South South Gloucestershire.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 15:08:03 GMT
Surely it should have been North East Somerset and South South Gloucestershire, anyway? Using the council area geographies it could be West North East Somerset and South South Gloucestershire. I'm a fan.
|
|
peterl
Green
Monarchic Technocratic Localist
Posts: 8,233
|
Post by peterl on Nov 8, 2022 15:11:14 GMT
Using the council area geographies it could be West North East Somerset and South South Gloucestershire. I'm a fan. South and North West of England perhaps, using the combined authority name. Just to be as confusing as possible.
|
|
|
Post by Adam in Stroud on Nov 8, 2022 17:30:35 GMT
Surely it should have been North East Somerset and South South Gloucestershire, anyway? Using the council area geographies it could be West North East Somerset and South South Gloucestershire. I'm quite liking the sound of that, delivered in a strong Bristolian accent.
|
|
|
Post by Adam in Stroud on Nov 8, 2022 17:35:53 GMT
The main thing I note is that Kingswood Ward of Stroud District (currently Lib Dem held) does not go into the new Stroud constituency alongside Wotton-under-Edge, but goes to South Cotswolds, while in return Chalford goes into "new" Stroud rather than (IIRC) the new North Cotswold seat.
I'm guessing this makes South Cotswold a stronger prospect for Lib Dems, increasing the preponderance of Lib Dem council wards in it, while Stroud becomes a slightly stronger bet for Labour so long as they can persuade electors who vote Green in council elections to vote Labour for Westminster.
|
|
|
Post by andrewp on Nov 8, 2022 18:07:42 GMT
Using the council area geographies it could be West North East Somerset and South South Gloucestershire. I'm quite liking the sound of that, delivered in a strong Bristolian accent. I think it is where Vicky Pollard from Little Britain would live.
|
|
Foggy
Non-Aligned
Long may it rain
Posts: 5,527
|
Post by Foggy on Nov 8, 2022 18:35:27 GMT
The Tiverton and Minehead abomination survives, as does Mid Dorset & N Poole (the latter at least has the advantage of being an existing arrangement). Totnes is now Devon South for some reason despite still containing the eponymous town, the unnecessary South Cotswolds cross-county seat has an orphan ward from Stroud district, whilst the equally unneeded 'Somerset North East and Hanham' is compounded by a terrible name. Elsewhere, things look okay-to-good, mind you, so the Commissioners may be minded to dig their heels in about some of the more objectionable proposals for the sake of not messing with the decent constituencies too much. I think the thing is that they are quite reluctant to change things when they are supported by all the "qualifying political parties", and those did all support the BCE's subregions. I didn't expect much change here to be honest, and certainly I didn't expect my proposal to be adopted. That's a pity, but we can but try in a final mass plea for common sense. I've highlighted 'subregions' because I think I'm right in saying only Dorset and Cornwall have been treated separately? That means the entire rest of the South West constitutes one 'subregion' when at most, just a single cross-county seat is actually required. There's a case for Devon/Somerset – although not including Tivvy – Somerset/Glos or Glos/Wilts, but surely not all three! It's not in this region, but the proposed Hitchin seat completely ignores the Bedfordshire part of the constituency in its (admittedly nice and succinct) name.
|
|
YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,341
|
Post by YL on Nov 8, 2022 19:05:31 GMT
I think the thing is that they are quite reluctant to change things when they are supported by all the "qualifying political parties", and those did all support the BCE's subregions. I didn't expect much change here to be honest, and certainly I didn't expect my proposal to be adopted. That's a pity, but we can but try in a final mass plea for common sense. I've highlighted 'subregions' because I think I'm right in saying only Dorset and Cornwall have been treated separately? That means the entire rest of the South West constitutes one 'subregion' when at most, just a single cross-county seat is actually required. There's a case for Devon/Somerset – although not including Tivvy – Somerset/Glos or Glos/Wilts, but surely not all three! That's because you think the counties in this region are Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Somerset, Wiltshire and Gloucestershire (and maybe the City and County of Bristol; I can't remember your take on that). The BCE think the counties in this region are Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Somerset, Avon, Wiltshire and Gloucestershire, or at least they behave as if they do.
|
|
|
Post by greenhert on Nov 8, 2022 20:00:58 GMT
The revised proposals, whilst somewhat of an improvement, still leave a lot to be desired. The Minehead seat could have stayed entirely within Somerset or instead only the westernmost wards of Somerset that border Devon via Exmoor could have been transferred to a redrawn North Devon/Barnstaple seat, which would also have allowed for the Honiton seat to be entirely within East Devon DC. Then, Mid Devon could all be in one seat and add South Molton to become Tiverton & South Molton.
Splitting a ward in Swindon was completely unnecessary; all that was needed was to add two Swindon wards to the East Wiltshire seat and redraw Swindon South. Despite those claims by the BCE, separating Quedgeley from the main city of Gloucester and adding it to Stroud is much neater than the split they have continued to maintain.
|
|
xenon
Non-Aligned
Posts: 257
|
Post by xenon on Nov 8, 2022 20:42:38 GMT
Jesus Even the Scots might have blanched at that one. I still long for Clydebank & Milngavie in the Scottish Parliament to be renamed "West Dunbartonshire East and East Dunbartonshire West". The parliamentary equivalent of East Fife Four, Forfar Five!
|
|
Foggy
Non-Aligned
Long may it rain
Posts: 5,527
|
Post by Foggy on Nov 8, 2022 20:42:49 GMT
That's a pity, but we can but try in a final mass plea for common sense. I've highlighted 'subregions' because I think I'm right in saying only Dorset and Cornwall have been treated separately? That means the entire rest of the South West constitutes one 'subregion' when at most, just a single cross-county seat is actually required. There's a case for Devon/Somerset – although not including Tivvy – Somerset/Glos or Glos/Wilts, but surely not all three! That's because you think the counties in this region are Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Somerset, Wiltshire and Gloucestershire (and maybe the City and County of Bristol; I can't remember your take on that). The BCE think the counties in this region are Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Somerset, Avon, Wiltshire and Gloucestershire, or at least they behave as if they do. I'm not sure the legislation requires them to take into account local authorities that haven't existed administratively or ceremonially for a quarter of a century, does it? If that's simply the Commissioners' personal opinion then, well, frankly they ought to be sacked. That said, if we are counting that separately, then we have even more such crossings in the shape of Wells & Mendip Hills and Frome, both of which are also needless as the Somerset CC/UA area can stand alone for 6 seats.
|
|
|
Post by swindonlad on Nov 9, 2022 3:43:04 GMT
The revised proposals, whilst somewhat of an improvement, still leave a lot to be desired. The Minehead seat could have stayed entirely within Somerset or instead only the westernmost wards of Somerset that border Devon via Exmoor could have been transferred to a redrawn North Devon/Barnstaple seat, which would also have allowed for the Honiton seat to be entirely within East Devon DC. Then, Mid Devon could all be in one seat and add South Molton to become Tiverton & South Molton. Splitting a ward in Swindon was completely unnecessary; all that was needed was to add two Swindon wards to the East Wiltshire seat and redraw Swindon South. Despite those claims by the BCE, separating Quedgeley from the main city of Gloucester and adding it to Stroud is much neater than the split they have continued to maintain. Whilst splitting Chiseldon and Lawn wasn't necessary mathematically, splitting it makes eminent sense along the Parish boundary lines as one part is urban and fits better with Swindon South & the southern part has more in common with East Wiltshire, bringing the boundary back to more in line with the pre 97 Devizes / Swindon constituency boundary. Having taken Wroughton and Ridgeway out the only rural part out was Chiseldon. And, finally, they've changed the name from South Swindon to Swindon South, and similar for North.
|
|
YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,341
|
Post by YL on Nov 9, 2022 8:08:29 GMT
That's because you think the counties in this region are Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Somerset, Wiltshire and Gloucestershire (and maybe the City and County of Bristol; I can't remember your take on that). The BCE think the counties in this region are Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Somerset, Avon, Wiltshire and Gloucestershire, or at least they behave as if they do. I'm not sure the legislation requires them to take into account local authorities that haven't existed administratively or ceremonially for a quarter of a century, does it? If that's simply the Commissioners' personal opinion then, well, frankly they ought to be sacked. That said, if we are counting that separately, then we have even more such crossings in the shape of Wells & Mendip Hills and Frome, both of which are also needless as the Somerset CC/UA area can stand alone for 6 seats. If you look at the spreadsheet of electorate data available on their Data and Resources page you will see that the data for Bristol, North Somerset, BaNES, South Gloucestershire, Hull, the East Riding and North and North East Lincolnshire can be found on tabs labelled "Avon" and "Humberside", and that column J, headed "County", has those names. This is of course now over 25 years out of date, but it's how they organise their data and I think that reflects how they think of these areas. Fortunately up here we escaped any impact of that, but they do describe "South Yorkshire and Humberside" as a sub-region even though de facto the East Riding and Hull (correctly) formed a sub-region in their own right. In this region they describe "Gloucestershire and Wiltshire (including Swindon)" and "'Avon', Somerset and Devon (including Torbay and Plymouth)" as sub-regions. Those titles do reflect the 1990s changes, but still suggest they regarded the former Avon area as a unit, though they did cross its border with Somerset twice, as you say.
|
|
|
Post by bjornhattan on Nov 9, 2022 11:44:27 GMT
The revised proposals, whilst somewhat of an improvement, still leave a lot to be desired. The Minehead seat could have stayed entirely within Somerset or instead only the westernmost wards of Somerset that border Devon via Exmoor could have been transferred to a redrawn North Devon/Barnstaple seat, which would also have allowed for the Honiton seat to be entirely within East Devon DC. Then, Mid Devon could all be in one seat and add South Molton to become Tiverton & South Molton. Splitting a ward in Swindon was completely unnecessary; all that was needed was to add two Swindon wards to the East Wiltshire seat and redraw Swindon South. Despite those claims by the BCE, separating Quedgeley from the main city of Gloucester and adding it to Stroud is much neater than the split they have continued to maintain. Whilst splitting Chiseldon and Lawn wasn't necessary mathematically, splitting it makes eminent sense along the Parish boundary lines as one part is urban and fits better with Swindon South & the southern part has more in common with East Wiltshire, bringing the boundary back to more in line with the pre 97 Devizes / Swindon constituency boundary. Having taken Wroughton and Ridgeway out the only rural part out was Chiseldon. And, finally, they've changed the name from South Swindon to Swindon South, and similar for North. I think I can take credit for the split - I made a submission on that ward and pointed out that one polling district could be transferred and the numbers would still work; they replicated my suggestion perfectly. Though sadly I didn't get namedropped!
|
|
Foggy
Non-Aligned
Long may it rain
Posts: 5,527
|
Post by Foggy on Nov 10, 2022 21:58:28 GMT
I'm not sure the legislation requires them to take into account local authorities that haven't existed administratively or ceremonially for a quarter of a century, does it? If that's simply the Commissioners' personal opinion then, well, frankly they ought to be sacked. That said, if we are counting that separately, then we have even more such crossings in the shape of Wells & Mendip Hills and Frome, both of which are also needless as the Somerset CC/UA area can stand alone for 6 seats. If you look at the spreadsheet of electorate data available on their Data and Resources page you will see that the data for Bristol, North Somerset, BaNES, South Gloucestershire, Hull, the East Riding and North and North East Lincolnshire can be found on tabs labelled "Avon" and "Humberside", and that column J, headed "County", has those names. This is of course now over 25 years out of date, but it's how they organise their data and I think that reflects how they think of these areas. Fortunately up here we escaped any impact of that, but they do describe "South Yorkshire and Humberside" as a sub-region even though de facto the East Riding and Hull (correctly) formed a sub-region in their own right. In this region they describe "Gloucestershire and Wiltshire (including Swindon)" and "'Avon', Somerset and Devon (including Torbay and Plymouth)" as sub-regions. Those titles do reflect the 1990s changes, but still suggest they regarded the former Avon area as a unit, though they did cross its border with Somerset twice, as you say. Thanks for the clarification. Do you know what? I think I might have even spotted that at the beginning of last year, but clearly a heck of a lot has happened since then politically, professionally and personally so I'd forgotten about it. As I said, there no longer seems to be any basis in the legislation for that way of dividing the region. Grounds for judicial recourse, do you reckon, or is that a bit of a forlorn hope? I haven't checked out Yorkshire & the Humber at all in this review, so if E Yorks is now considered a separate review area from N & NE Lincs then that's good news which I welcome.
|
|