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Post by andrewteale on Dec 5, 2022 11:35:25 GMT
Yeah, you can also do it with separate Whitehaven and Workington seats; I posted a plan upthread somewhere. Westmorland & Furness though does not seem to work well: Kendal ends up on the edge of a seat and there's a danger of Morecambe & Windermere. Or just go back to the BCE's initial plan for a split-ward arrangement so the seat extends to the south-eastern Windermere area. If you reflected this in the name it could be handily abbreviated to 'Morecambe and WiSE'. (I'll get my coat.)
"What do you think of it so far?" |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 39,067
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Post by The Bishop on Dec 5, 2022 11:49:09 GMT
Not much  IMO the proposed Cumbria seats are about as good as we are likely to get under present rules, save for the odd adjustment here and there. |
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Post by minionofmidas on Dec 5, 2022 13:18:27 GMT
It's not super pretty but the numbers do exist for three whole constituencies in the new Cumberland UA. Whitehaven & Workington regains Millom etc but loses the four rural Allerdale wards (so an even closer shave for Workington), Carlisle loses an extra ward (Wetheral & Corby or else Belah & Kingmore, whichever is worse) and the remaining area makes a seat, Allerdale or Solway Firth or Keswick & Maryport or whatever name you prefer. All at 70k and small change. [/looking forward to the next review already] Yeah, you can also do it with separate Whitehaven and Workington seats; I posted a plan upthread somewhere. Westmorland & Furness though does not seem to work well: Kendal ends up on the edge of a seat and there's a danger of Morecambe & Windermere. yeah, I realized. Then looked at the clock before I could write it up and realized I also needed to get fully dressed and leave the house asap. |
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Post by minionofmidas on Dec 5, 2022 20:03:07 GMT
Noticed that in support of their split of Southport and resultant second crossing of Liverpool's city boundary they are actually citing the precedent of Aintree having earlier been included in Liverpool Walton from 1950 to 1955.
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Post by rcronald on Feb 24, 2023 8:18:49 GMT
The commission’s insistence on keeping Oldham West & Royton, Oldham East & Saddleworth the same is so confusing and frustrating at the same time. Wouldn't it make more sense to have Royton with Saddleworth and St.Mary’s and Alexandra wards with the rest of Oldham?
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Post by batman on Feb 24, 2023 8:41:05 GMT
Royton & Saddleworth were paired in the old pre-1950 Royton constituency weren't they.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 24, 2023 8:50:19 GMT
Royton & Saddleworth were paired in the old pre-1950 Royton constituency weren't they. Not Saddlewworth of course as that was in Yorkshire at the time (Colne Valley) but it included areas like Crompton, Milnrow, Littleborough etc |
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Post by andrewteale on Feb 24, 2023 16:05:17 GMT
The commission’s insistence on keeping Oldham West & Royton, Oldham East & Saddleworth the same is so confusing and frustrating at the same time. Wouldn't it make more sense to have Royton with Saddleworth and St.Mary’s and Alexandra wards with the rest of Oldham? Not really. Royton has been in an Oldham seat since 1983 because it's much better connected to Oldham than it is to Saddleworth, and Saddleworth (loath though it will be to admit it) is much better connected to Lees and eastern Oldham than it is to pretty much anywhere else except Mossley. The existing arrangement makes a lot of sense in terms of the valleys and the road network in the area, and also has the advantage of being in quota. |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Feb 24, 2023 16:44:45 GMT
The commission’s insistence on keeping Oldham West & Royton, Oldham East & Saddleworth the same is so confusing and frustrating at the same time. Wouldn't it make more sense to have Royton with Saddleworth and St.Mary’s and Alexandra wards with the rest of Oldham? Even if Royton & Saddleworth made sense on the ground, the rules would make it very hard to justify disturbing the current arrangements if the other seats fit round them. |
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Post by rcronald on Feb 24, 2023 16:48:44 GMT
The commission’s insistence on keeping Oldham West & Royton, Oldham East & Saddleworth the same is so confusing and frustrating at the same time. Wouldn't it make more sense to have Royton with Saddleworth and St.Mary’s and Alexandra wards with the rest of Oldham? Not really. Royton has been in an Oldham seat since 1983 because it's much better connected to Oldham than it is to Saddleworth, and Saddleworth (loath though it will be to admit it) is much better connected to Lees and eastern Oldham than it is to pretty much anywhere else except Mossley. The existing arrangement makes a lot of sense in terms of the valleys and the road network in the area, and also has the advantage of being in quota. You are probably correct about the connectivity part, but East Oldham and Saddleworth just always seemed like a very strange cultural fit... The level of nastiness in the 2010 campaign also showed that the constituency is essentially a forced marriage... The 5 Oldham wards with a high precenage of BAME voters are also split 3 (Oldham West) - 2 (Oldham East) at the moment, so a change is likely to unite them. |
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Post by islington on Feb 24, 2023 16:50:29 GMT
Royton & Saddleworth were paired in the old pre-1950 Royton constituency weren't they. Not Saddlewworth of course as that was in Yorkshire at the time (Colne Valley) but it included areas like Crompton, Milnrow, Littleborough etc Here's a nice map of the Royton seat as it existed 1918 to 1950. As you see, its internal comms weren't exactly what we'd like to see. (And the credit for this map is due to parlconst thanks to whom this sort of thing has become far easier than it used to be.)  roll 3 |
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Post by rcronald on Feb 24, 2023 17:37:24 GMT
Not really. Royton has been in an Oldham seat since 1983 because it's much better connected to Oldham than it is to Saddleworth, and Saddleworth (loath though it will be to admit it) is much better connected to Lees and eastern Oldham than it is to pretty much anywhere else except Mossley. The existing arrangement makes a lot of sense in terms of the valleys and the road network in the area, and also has the advantage of being in quota. You are probably correct about the connectivity part, but East Oldham and Saddleworth just always seemed like a very strange cultural fit... The level of nastiness in the 2010 campaign also showed that the constituency is essentially a forced marriage... The 5 Oldham wards with a high precenage of BAME voters are also split 3 (Oldham West) - 2 (Oldham East) at the moment, so a change is likely to unite them.  Correct me if the map is wrong. |
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Post by grahammurray on Feb 24, 2023 17:58:34 GMT
Not really. Royton has been in an Oldham seat since 1983 because it's much better connected to Oldham than it is to Saddleworth, and Saddleworth (loath though it will be to admit it) is much better connected to Lees and eastern Oldham than it is to pretty much anywhere else except Mossley. The existing arrangement makes a lot of sense in terms of the valleys and the road network in the area, and also has the advantage of being in quota. You are probably correct about the connectivity part, but East Oldham and Saddleworth just always seemed like a very strange cultural fit... The level of nastiness in the 2010 campaign also showed that the constituency is essentially a forced marriage... The 5 Oldham wards with a high precenage of BAME voters are also split 3 (Oldham West) - 2 (Oldham East) at the moment, so a change is likely to unite them. The nastiness of the 2010 campaign was entirely down to the malice of the local Labour Party and nothing to do with a line on a map. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,058
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Post by Sibboleth on Feb 24, 2023 18:41:20 GMT
FPTP guarantees uncomfortable arrangement, and any form of electorate quota increases this further (and the tighter the quota, the greater the discomfort). OES is a little incoherent, but there are a lot of more obviously problematic constituencies as all parts of it are at least well connected and do form part of the same urban area. Ethnicity is a very questionable criteria for drawing a constituency even aside from the fact that doing so is in conflict with our liberal traditions, in part because the geography of ethnicity is apt to change very rapidly in this country, but also because these things are not as simple as 'white or not'. For example, are the interests of the Pakistani and Bengali communities in Oldham essentially the same? Manifestly not.
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bsjmcr
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,593 
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Post by bsjmcr on Feb 25, 2023 1:18:30 GMT
FPTP guarantees uncomfortable arrangement, and any form of electorate quota increases this further (and the tighter the quota, the greater the discomfort). OES is a little incoherent, but there are a lot of more obviously problematic constituencies as all parts of it are at least well connected and do form part of the same urban area. Ethnicity is a very questionable criteria for drawing a constituency even aside from the fact that doing so is in conflict with our liberal traditions, in part because the geography of ethnicity is apt to change very rapidly in this country, but also because these things are not as simple as 'white or not'. For example, are the interests of the Pakistani and Bengali communities in Oldham essentially the same? Manifestly not. I’m sure at the last abandoned boundary review they wanted to revive the old Littleborough and Saddleworth concept which got criticism for the poor transport links across the ‘moors-based constituency’. Even though nobody can argue it’s more homogenous in character. You can’t please everyone! I wonder how often at each boundary review do they receive comments from Saddleworth folk wanting to become part of Colne Valley again? |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Feb 25, 2023 7:38:10 GMT
FPTP guarantees uncomfortable arrangement, and any form of electorate quota increases this further (and the tighter the quota, the greater the discomfort). OES is a little incoherent, but there are a lot of more obviously problematic constituencies as all parts of it are at least well connected and do form part of the same urban area. Ethnicity is a very questionable criteria for drawing a constituency even aside from the fact that doing so is in conflict with our liberal traditions, in part because the geography of ethnicity is apt to change very rapidly in this country, but also because these things are not as simple as 'white or not'. For example, are the interests of the Pakistani and Bengali communities in Oldham essentially the same? Manifestly not. I’m sure at the last abandoned boundary review they wanted to revive the old Littleborough and Saddleworth concept which got criticism for the poor transport links across the ‘moors-based constituency’. Even though nobody can argue it’s more homogenous in character. You can’t please everyone! I wonder how often at each boundary review do they receive comments from Saddleworth folk wanting to become part of Colne Valley again? The comments from that area were mostly supporting the current constituency and opposing the Conservative suggestion of putting Royton with Saddleworth. I remember the Saddleworth White Rose Society put forward a proposal at one of the zombie reviews for what they called a "South Pennines" constituency, but I can't now remember what was in it and whether it was entirely in historic Yorkshire. (Probably not, as it probably included Lees, the BCE not being keen on ward splits in those reviews.) |
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Post by rcronald on Feb 25, 2023 9:23:59 GMT
Question about Wigan and Makerfield
Should Ince-in-Makerfield be swapped with Worsley Mesnes?
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
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Post by Foggy on Feb 26, 2023 0:41:36 GMT
Should Ince-in-Makerfield be swapped with Worsley Mesnes? No, but Worsley Mesnes should be swapped out for Worsley Memegadrive. I'll get Memacintosh... |
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nyx
Non-Aligned
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Post by nyx on Jun 28, 2023 10:36:16 GMT
Only boundary change in the final proposals compared to revised proposals appears to be Penrith and Solway swapping a few wards with Whitehaven and Workington. There are also a few name changes.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 39,067
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 28, 2023 10:39:05 GMT
Only boundary change in the final proposals compared to revised proposals appears to be Penrith and Solway swapping a few wards with Whitehaven and Workington. There are also a few name changes. Which are? |
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