2023 Review - Yorkshire and the Humber

[edgbaston]

Jan 10, 2021 20:44:45 GMT islington said:

With due acknowledgment to edgbaston, here's another non-split W Yorks.

admin images

There are a lot of infelicities and awkwardnesses here, and I couldn't get Wakefield S into the Wakefield seat (grrr...). But are there any absolute car crashes?

It's too late for me to type out names and electorates, but I promise everything is legal (and this comment also applies to the rest of N Yorks (not shown on map)).

There really is no nice way to do east Leeds is there. So perhaps one should just say ‘f*ck it’ and make everywhere reasonable and fill in it in at the end. I’ve been trying to make a plan that avoids the Wakefield-Huddersfield suburbs seats. But to no avail. Wakefield South ward is just too much of an odd size.

[hullenedge]

Jan 10, 2021 21:10:03 GMT edgbaston said:

Jan 10, 2021 20:44:45 GMT islington said:

With due acknowledgment to edgbaston, here's another non-split W Yorks.

admin images

There are a lot of infelicities and awkwardnesses here, and I couldn't get Wakefield S into the Wakefield seat (grrr...). But are there any absolute car crashes?

It's too late for me to type out names and electorates, but I promise everything is legal (and this comment also applies to the rest of N Yorks (not shown on map)).

There really is no nice way to do east Leeds is there. So perhaps one should just say ‘f*ck it’ and make everywhere reasonable and fill in it in at the end. I’ve been trying to make a plan that avoids the Wakefield-Huddersfield suburbs seats. But to no avail. Wakefield South ward is just too much of an odd size.

Wards will be split if not for the provisionals definitely for the final recommendations.

[islington]

Jan 10, 2021 21:10:03 GMT edgbaston said:

Jan 10, 2021 20:44:45 GMT islington said:

With due acknowledgment to edgbaston, here's another non-split W Yorks.

admin images

There are a lot of infelicities and awkwardnesses here, and I couldn't get Wakefield S into the Wakefield seat (grrr...). But are there any absolute car crashes?

It's too late for me to type out names and electorates, but I promise everything is legal (and this comment also applies to the rest of N Yorks (not shown on map)).

There really is no nice way to do east Leeds is there. So perhaps one should just say ‘f*ck it’ and make everywhere reasonable and fill in it in at the end. I’ve been trying to make a plan that avoids the Wakefield-Huddersfield suburbs seats. But to no avail. Wakefield South ward is just too much of an odd size.

Well, two of the worst features in the map I posted are the grossly misplaced Burmantofts and Temple Newsam wards but my afterthought shifted both those wards and with those alterations, and their knock-on consequences, is Leeds actually all that bad?

I agree, though, that the Kirkburton seat (can't think what else to call it) is a mess.

[mattb]

I couldn't improve on islington's non-split scheme for W.Yorks.
Allowing myself the luxury of a single ward split in Leeds allows just one seat crossing the W.Yorks boundary as well as decent seats across N. & E.Yorks.
(you could reactivate the Buckrose / Howdenshire / Barkston Ash names if you wanted).
A lot of the rest also been posted before though not sure we've had this version of Sheffield.

[islington]

Here, with thanks for the various ideas I've borrowed, are names and electorates for the whole of Y&H. I may post some maps later but I think in most cases it will be obvious what I have in mind.

I can see plenty of seats here that are less than ideal but I don't think there are any complete disasters - even Kirkburton, for instance, falls a long way short of Lancaster & Fleetwood standards of awfulness.

Group A – W Yorks, N Yorks, York (31 seats)

Batley and Morley – 75926. Crossing the Leeds-Kirklees boundary, but restoring an association that existed 1918-83.
Bradford East – 73721. Unchanged.
Bradford South and Cleckheaton – 71854.
Bradford West – 70673.
Colne Valley – 71518.
Dewsbury – 70302.
Elmet and Rothwell – 76485. Not too bad in this configuration – much better than I had it before.
Halifax – 70894.
Harrogate and Knaresborough – 75800. Loses Boroughbridge but otherwise unchanged.
Hemsworth – 75388.
Huddersfield and Elland – 74185. This seat borrows Elland ward from Calderdale rather than Rastrick as I previously suggested. It involves a longer boundary but it keeps Brighouse together.
Keighley – 75081.
Kirkburton – 75424. This is a real mess: the scrag ends of Huddersfield, Wakefield and Ossett with random places in between. Ironically it looks quite reasonable on the map.
Leeds Central – 73922. Definitely my best Leeds seat – I’m very happy with this one.
Leeds East – 69792. Or ‘North East’ if you prefer.
Leeds North – 70067. Try as I may I can’t find a reasonable and quorate seat comprising four Leeds wards in this area, so Washburn ward from Harrogate unfortunately has to make up the numbers.
Leeds South – 70007.
Leeds West and Pudsey – 70270.
Otley – 76918. If the Leeds-Bradford boundary must be crossed, this is surely the best place to do it.
Pontefract and Castleford – 72751. Sans Normanton but otherwise unchanged.
Richmond – 72744.
Scarborough – 73862. Unchanged.
Selby – 73920.
Shipley – 74308.
Skipton and Ripon – 76266. Unchanged apart from the loss of Washburn.
Sowerby – 71023. I prefer the old name rather than ‘Calder Valley’ but it’s not something I’d go to the stake over.
Thirsk and Malton – 76623.
Vale of York – 76630.
Wakefield – 70396. I tried and failed to get Wakefield S ward into this seat. And yes, I know about Ossett – but at least Outwood is kept together.
Wetherby – 73210. I’ve tried and failed to find a viable non-split option that would allow me to keep Roundhay out of this seat in exchange for (probably) Adel. But even so, Roundhay is a better fit than Temple Newsam as in my earlier plan.
York – 74854. Aligned with new wards but otherwise unchanged.

Group B – ERY, Hull (6 seats) (with thanks to Pete Whitehead)

Beverley – 72551.
Bridlington – 73175.
Goole and Howden – 76411.
Hull East – 74444.
Hull North – 72020.
Hull West and Hessle – 74321.

Group C – S Yorks, N Lincs, NE Lincs (17 seats)

Barnsley East – 70392.
Barnsley West – 72809. The successor to Barnsley C.
Brigg – 71628.
Doncaster – 73457. Aligned with new wards but otherwise unchanged.
Grimsby and Cleethorpes – 77050. Only 12 shy of the upper limit.
Maltby – 77031. The name ‘Rother Valley’ no longer fits.
Mexborough – 76706. Special thanks to mattb for this one.
Rotherham – 74557.
Scunthorpe – 74278.
Sheffield Brightside – 69725. Exceeds the minimum by 1.
Sheffield Central – 70419. If preferred City and Dore wards can be exchanged between Heeley and this seat (which would then be renamed Ecclesall).
Sheffield Ecclesfield and Penistone – 76972.
Sheffield Heeley – 70028.
Sheffield Hillsborough – 76346. Or 'Hallam'. Preferably not both.
Sheffield Rother Vale – 73993. Other names are possible.
Thorne and Axholme – 70113.
Wentworth – 73260. This is similar to mattb's version but he added the Dearne wards from Barnsley, which I agree represents least change. But I've gone for Rockingham and Hoyland Milton instead, basically because they look like a better fit. Either way it means there's no crossing of the Barnley-Doncaster boundary.

[greenhert]

My plan for North and West Yorkshire:


ibb.co/T8WcsGF

ibb.co/0GhsfNL


ibb.co/YhNLS1b


ibb.co/bm8fSTG

Pudsey, Leeds North West, Leeds North East, Shipley, Keighley, York Outer, York Central, and Scarborough & Whitby are all unchanged except for adjustments to new ward boundaries.

Pontefract & Elmsall succeeds Hemsworth; Selby & Castleford succeeds Selby & Ainsty (Normanton, Pontefract & Castleford disappears); Spen Valley succeeds Batley & Spen; Batley & Morley succeeds Morley & Outwood; Leeds South succeeds Leeds Central; Bradford North succeeds Bradford East; Bradford West disappears.

Normanton is a new seat, or rather recreated seat; Tadcaster is a new seat, and so technically is Bradford Central.

Ward splits: In this plan, Halifax has part of Luddendenfoot ward, making its electorate approximately 75,000 and Sowerby & Brighouse's electorate approx. 75,500.
Wakefield has the Horbury part of Horbury & South Ossett, making its electorate approximately 72,000 and Normanton's electorate approx. 72,000.
Colne Valley has part of Lindley ward, making its electorate approx. 71,300. Dewsbury has part of Almondbury ward making its electorate approx. 71,000, subsequently making Huddersfield's electorate approx. 74,800. 
Spen Valley has part of Batley West ward, making its electorate approx. 72,500 and Batley & Morley's electorate approx. 76,800.
Leeds West takes in part of Beeston & Holbeck ward, making its electorate approx. 73,200 and Leeds South's electorate approx. 76,900.
Leeds East takes in the Swillington part of Garnforth & Swillington ward, making its electorate approx. 73,000 and Elmet & Rothwell's electorate approx. 76,200.

[greenhert]

My plan for East and South Yorkshire:

ibb.co/kJKmMnG

ibb.co/VD5Qkyf

ibb.co/cFF6ZLV

Sheffield Hallam, Sheffield Brightside & Hillsborough, Rother Valley, and Penistone & Stocksbridge are unchanged except for adjustments to new ward boundaries where appropriate. Brigg & Goole disappears.

Grimsby & Cleethorpes succeeds Great Grimsby, Brigg succeeds Cleethorpes, Hull South succeeds Hull East; Hull West & Haltemprice succeeds Hull West & Hessle (contains part of Minster & Woodmansey ward), Goole & Howden succeeds Haltemprice & Howden (contains part of Wolds Weighton ward), Bridlington succeeds East Yorkshire, Doncaster East & Axholme succeeds Don Valley in practice; Doncaster South succeeds Doncaster Central despite the name; Rawmarsh & Conisborough succeeds Wentworth, Sheffield Attercliffe succeeds Sheffield South East (note: only has half of Richmond ward, shared with Sheffield Heeley), Barnsley North succeeds Barnsley Central, and Barnsley South succeeds Barnsley East.

Notionals from my Yorkshire & Humber plan: 

Abolished: Bradford West, Brigg & Goole, Normanton, Pontefract & Castleford (Lab -2, Con -1)
New seats: Bradford Central, Normanton, Tadcaster (Lab +1, Con +2)
Change hands notionally from Con to Lab: Batley & Morley [Morley & Outwood], Dewsbury.
Change hands notionally from Lab to Con: Hull West & Haltemprice [Hull West & Hessle], Spen Valley [Batley & Spen].
Notional total: Lab 27, Con 27.

[edgbaston]

Jan 10, 2021 21:17:40 GMT hullenedge said:

Jan 10, 2021 21:10:03 GMT edgbaston said:

There really is no nice way to do east Leeds is there. So perhaps one should just say ‘f*ck it’ and make everywhere reasonable and fill in it in at the end. I’ve been trying to make a plan that avoids the Wakefield-Huddersfield suburbs seats. But to no avail. Wakefield South ward is just too much of an odd size.

Wards will be split if not for the provisionals definitely for the final recommendations.

Well we certainly hope so as I say.

[greenhert]

Jan 11, 2021 17:33:05 GMT edgbaston said:

Jan 10, 2021 21:17:40 GMT hullenedge said:

Wards will be split if not for the provisionals definitely for the final recommendations.

Well we certainly hope so as I say.

It will be essential for creating coherent seats that fit the 5% quota, especially where ward sizes considerably exceed the allowed range of 7,338 (which they do in most of Yorkshire).

[ilerda]

I'm not saying I like it, and it has many flaws (an unnecessary tri-borough seat for example), but technically it works. I actually think it ends up with Barnsley and Doncaster being neater than they are in some alternative scenarios.


1 Sheffield Hallam 76637 Yes
2 Sheffield Central 70453 Yes
3 Sheffield Hillsborough 71936 Yes
4 Sheffield Brightside 69725 Yes
5 Sheffield Heeley 75101 Yes
6 Sheffield Rother 74778 Yes
7 Penistone and Hoyland 73198 Yes
8 Barnsley Central 72722 Yes
9 Wickersley 72572 Yes
10 Rotherham 76811 Yes
11 Dearne Valley 74881 Yes
12 Doncaster South 70235 Yes
13 Doncaster Central 74729 Yes
14 Thorne and Axholme 72030 Yes

[East Anglian Lefty]

Might be a bit neater if you swapped Adwick for Armley?

[edgbaston]

If I was splitting a ward in Sheffield I would want the seats there to look a lot neater.

[J.G.Harston]

Jan 14, 2021 15:47:58 GMT edgbaston said:

If I was splitting a ward in Sheffield I would want the seats there to look a lot neater.

Splitting the polyp off Richmond is a good start.

[J.G.Harston]

Jan 11, 2021 9:21:06 GMT mattb said:

I couldn't improve on islington's non-split scheme for W.Yorks.
Allowing myself the luxury of a single ward split in Leeds allows just one seat crossing the W.Yorks boundary as well as decent seats across N. & E.Yorks.
(you could reactivate the Buckrose / Howdenshire / Barkston Ash names if you wanted).
A lot of the rest also been posted before though not sure we've had this version of Sheffield.

Ooo, I like that Bridlington & Filey. Much better than the Thirsk Salient currently.

[ilerda]

Jan 14, 2021 15:47:58 GMT edgbaston said:

If I was splitting a ward in Sheffield I would want the seats there to look a lot neater.

Which bits exactly do you mean?

Personally I still favour my earlier plan that largely maintains the existing configuration in Sheffield but takes Manor Castle from Central and gives it to Heeley, then splits Richmond between Heeley and SE. 

If you're referring to the Hillsborough seat then although it looks slightly illogical I would imagine most Sheffielders would recognise that it makes sense on the ground, and does have some historic precedent.

[edgbaston]

Jan 14, 2021 17:02:05 GMT ilerda said:

Jan 14, 2021 15:47:58 GMT edgbaston said:

If I was splitting a ward in Sheffield I would want the seats there to look a lot neater.

Which bits exactly do you mean?

Personally I still favour my earlier plan that largely maintains the existing configuration in Sheffield but takes Manor Castle from Central and gives it to Heeley, then splits Richmond between Heeley and SE. 

If you're referring to the Hillsborough seat then although it looks slightly illogical I would imagine most Sheffielders would recognise that it makes sense on the ground, and does have some historic precedent.

I refer more to Sheffield Rother and its knock-on consequences..

[YL]

This would be my favoured option (and I think ilerda 's too) if a single split in Sheffield is allowed:



The split of Richmond ward needs at least 6455 and at most 9742 electors in the SE portion. Based on J.G.Harston 's figures, polling districts UA (Bramley Hall, the "polyp"), UC (Intake), UD (Linley Lane) and UG (Stradbroke) should do the trick.

TBH I'm not sure the case for splitting the ward will be strong enough for the BCE, and it's worth thinking about alternatives, but I tend to prefer prioritising the integrity of major local government boundaries over wards, and my preference is to try it.

[greenhert]

Jan 14, 2021 17:01:34 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Jan 11, 2021 9:21:06 GMT mattb said:

I couldn't improve on islington's non-split scheme for W.Yorks.
Allowing myself the luxury of a single ward split in Leeds allows just one seat crossing the W.Yorks boundary as well as decent seats across N. & E.Yorks.
(you could reactivate the Buckrose / Howdenshire / Barkston Ash names if you wanted).
A lot of the rest also been posted before though not sure we've had this version of Sheffield.

Ooo, I like that Bridlington & Filey. Much better than the Thirsk Salient currently.

Filey was in fact in the Bridlington constituency (now the East Yorkshire constituency) until 1983 since Filey was once in the East Riding of Yorkshire.

[ilerda]

Jan 14, 2021 17:34:45 GMT YL said:

This would be my favoured option (and I think ilerda 's too) if a single split in Sheffield is allowed:



The split of Richmond ward needs at least 6455 and at most 9742 electors in the SE portion. Based on J.G.Harston 's figures, polling districts UA (Bramley Hall, the "polyp"), UC (Intake), UD (Linley Lane) and UG (Stradbroke) should do the trick.

TBH I'm not sure the case for splitting the ward will be strong enough for the BCE, and it's worth thinking about alternatives, but I tend to prefer prioritising the integrity of major local government boundaries over wards, and my preference is to try it.

Yes this is by far the optimal solution.

And I don’t say that because I have some fetish for not crossing LA boundaries or keeping wards intact. I just think it works well on many levels and whilst there are alternatives that fit the legal criteria, this works best in the ground.

[edgbaston]

Jan 14, 2021 17:34:45 GMT YL said:

This would be my favoured option (and I think ilerda 's too) if a single split in Sheffield is allowed:



The split of Richmond ward needs at least 6455 and at most 9742 electors in the SE portion. Based on J.G.Harston 's figures, polling districts UA (Bramley Hall, the "polyp"), UC (Intake), UD (Linley Lane) and UG (Stradbroke) should do the trick.

TBH I'm not sure the case for splitting the ward will be strong enough for the BCE, and it's worth thinking about alternatives, but I tend to prefer prioritising the integrity of major local government boundaries over wards, and my preference is to try it.

This will be my submission in Sheffield too. But to avoid splitting up Wickersley (as Wentworth expands south to pick up population) I’m considering adding Hoober ward to Barnsley East instead of the Dearne wards. Obviously one or both of those seats are then going to need a rename..