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Post by Pete Whitehead on Nov 15, 2024 16:30:01 GMT
White dudes for Harris was a real phenomenon it seems. "In 2024, Kamala Harris did worse among Black voters than Joe Biden did in 2020. She did worse among female voters. She did much worse among Latino voters. She did much worse among young voters. She did manage to outperform Biden among two groups: affluent people and white voters, especially white men. If there is one sentence that captures the surprising results of this election, it is this one from the sociologist Musa al-Gharbi: “Democrats lost because everyone except for whites moved in the direction of Donald Trump this cycle.” Going into this campaign, I did not have that one on my bingo card." www.nytimes.com/2024/11/14/opinion/identity-groups-politics.htmlFor God's sake don't tell dok - his brain will explode |
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Post by aargauer on Nov 15, 2024 16:33:34 GMT
AIUI undocumented in this sense means "arrived there legally then just never 'formalised' their citizenship". There are many millions like this (not the same as the illegal migrants/gang members etc who come across the border and become covert, work in black economy etc). Undocumenteds have proper jobs, mortgages, pay taxes etc. Whilst what Trump actually does with them is still not determined, the campaign rhetoric from him (and his new Border Tzar) was that they will be rounding up millions of them and deporting them. So we can either take them at their word or those families can just keep their fingers crossed and jump in fear every time there's a knock at the door Arriving in the U.S. legally doesn't make one a citizen, it makes one a legal (foreign) immigrant (although presumably with a document). Or possibly an illegal immigrant who came legally then overstayed. (Who'd be in part documented). When in this process is the immigrant meant to have naturalised? |
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Post by aargauer on Nov 15, 2024 16:38:23 GMT
White dudes for Harris was a real phenomenon it seems. "In 2024, Kamala Harris did worse among Black voters than Joe Biden did in 2020. She did worse among female voters. She did much worse among Latino voters. She did much worse among young voters. She did manage to outperform Biden among two groups: affluent people and white voters, especially white men. If there is one sentence that captures the surprising results of this election, it is this one from the sociologist Musa al-Gharbi: “Democrats lost because everyone except for whites moved in the direction of Donald Trump this cycle.” Going into this campaign, I did not have that one on my bingo card." www.nytimes.com/2024/11/14/opinion/identity-groups-politics.htmlRich old white people - basically the group who were happy with everyone being locked down and who didn't care about the (inflationary) consequences. |
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 15, 2024 16:40:09 GMT
AIUI undocumented in this sense means "arrived there legally then just never 'formalised' their citizenship". There are many millions like this (not the same as the illegal migrants/gang members etc who come across the border and become covert, work in black economy etc). Undocumenteds have proper jobs, mortgages, pay taxes etc. Whilst what Trump actually does with them is still not determined, the campaign rhetoric from him (and his new Border Tzar) was that they will be rounding up millions of them and deporting them. So we can either take them at their word or those families can just keep their fingers crossed and jump in fear every time there's a knock at the door Arriving in the U.S. legally doesn't make one a citizen, it makes one a legal (foreign) immigrant. Or possibly an illegal immigrant who came legally then overstayed. Bit like Melania then  The point is, whether it should have been allowed for decades to happen or not, it did. There are millions of "undocumented" citizens going about their daily lives, working legally, paying mortgages, paying taxes , living a "normal" life, who never got around for whatever reason to formalising their affairs. I repeat again , these people in large numbers voted for Trump and just assume that "common sense" will apply, that he wont go after otherwise law-abiding citizens, just the criminals and gang members etc. As I said, they are all now basically just praying and fearing every knock at the door,,just in case. Whether you, or anyone else thinks that what they did (not formalising their status) was wrong is not the point, the point is THEY dont believe he means THEM when Trump says he is coming after "THEM" |
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Post by aargauer on Nov 15, 2024 16:41:50 GMT
Arriving in the U.S. legally doesn't make one a citizen, it makes one a legal (foreign) immigrant. Or possibly an illegal immigrant who came legally then overstayed. Bit like Melania then The point is, whether it should have been allowed for decades to happen or not, it did. There are millions of "undocumented" citizens going about their daily lives, working legally, paying mortgages, paying taxes , living a "normal" life, who never got around for whatever reason to formalising their affairs. I repeat again , these people in large numbers voted for Trump and just assume that "common sense" will apply, that he wont go after otherwise law-abiding citizens, just the criminals and gang members etc. As I said, they are all now basically just praying and fearing every knock at the door,,just in case. Whether you, or anyone else thinks that what they did (not formalising their status) was wrong is not the point, the point is THEY dont believe he means THEM when Trump says he is coming after "THEM" Are you referring to the children of illegal immigrants who were themselves born in the United States? |
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sanders
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Post by sanders on Nov 15, 2024 16:48:04 GMT
How long until Trump gets bored? Ultimately, they both have massive egos. Still, Musk's DOGE is largely advisor.y
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 15, 2024 16:52:15 GMT
not only them ,but they are part of the cohort. Like I keep saying, my point isnt whether its right or wrong or who should be allowed to stay or not. The point is they thought he didnt mean them when he said "them". I really dont want to repeat that again, Im getting RSI That is the only point I'm making here |
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Post by uthacalthing on Nov 15, 2024 17:05:03 GMT
Im getting RSI That is the only point I'm making here I had noticed Where does what passes for your argument go when it turns out that the voters are correct, he does not mean them. The object is to deport enough pathetic vulnerable looking people in a very visible manner as to discourage the next wave of pathetic vulnerable looking people. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 15, 2024 17:26:03 GMT
Arriving in the U.S. legally doesn't make one a citizen, it makes one a legal (foreign) immigrant. Or possibly an illegal immigrant who came legally then overstayed. Bit like Melania then The point is, whether it should have been allowed for decades to happen or not, it did. There are millions of "undocumented" citizens going about their daily lives, working legally, paying mortgages, paying taxes , living a "normal" life, who never got around for whatever reason to formalising their affairs. America genuinely allows this?!! It's impossible to get a tax and social security number in Germany without fully declaring yourself to the authorities. You can't even get a basic bank account. You certainly would have no legal way to work. |
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Post by aargauer on Nov 15, 2024 17:29:06 GMT
Bit like Melania then The point is, whether it should have been allowed for decades to happen or not, it did. There are millions of "undocumented" citizens going about their daily lives, working legally, paying mortgages, paying taxes , living a "normal" life, who never got around for whatever reason to formalising their affairs. America genuinely allows this?!! It's impossible to get a tax and social security number in Germany without fully declaring yourself to the authorities. You can't even get a basic bank account. You certainly would have no legal way to work. I have both a US and German bank account, and U.S. credit cards. |
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sanders
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Post by sanders on Nov 15, 2024 17:32:29 GMT
This is going well for Trump. Some of these nominations are insane.
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 15, 2024 17:36:36 GMT
Im getting RSI That is the only point I'm making here I had noticed Where does what passes for your argument go when it turns out that the voters are correct, he does not mean them. The object is to deport enough pathetic vulnerable looking people in a very visible manner as to discourage the next wave of pathetic vulnerable looking people. It goes *phew that was close* What that means is that what Trump said on the stump (Im a poet) was all BS as there wont be millions of deportations as promised. MAGA will be upset, furious, but that's good. I hope he was just blowing smoke up their ass to get their votes, but the point is no one still knows for sure. So I say again, those particular voters voted for him and crossed their fingers. In fact many on here were saying Dont worry about Trump, he's all talk - dont take him literally. This is fair comment, The point is those who walked into a voting booth had to wonder whether what he said he would do, he will do, or not. It was a massive gamble - I hope for their sakes and their families sakes, they got away with it.. |
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Post by uthacalthing on Nov 15, 2024 17:40:40 GMT
Anyone protesting on a campus about anything that is not documented is a good enough target. They can be lifted under Federal Law.
And how upset do you think middle America will be? How upset will their own extended family be?
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 15, 2024 17:44:49 GMT
Middle America would be delighted. I remind you that the Dems put forward a bill that would've done exactly that...but Trump ordered Republicans in the House to vote it down so that he could get the credit for sorting it out, rather than sorting it out a year ago.
Thats the sort of person we're now dealing with sadly
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Post by uthacalthing on Nov 15, 2024 17:57:44 GMT
I do have to consider if having someone as appalling as Trump in office is worth it to simply "own" the Dems. In which, broadly, I include you
And on balance it is.
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cathyc
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Post by cathyc on Nov 15, 2024 18:19:16 GMT
I do have to consider if having someone as appalling as Trump in office is worth it to simply "own" the Dems. In which, broadly, I include you And on balance it is. Quite possibly the most petulant, infantile and self-regarding reason ever seen for supporting an adjudicated rapist and convicted fraud. In a crowded contest too. |
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Nov 15, 2024 18:32:04 GMT
I do have to consider if having someone as appalling as Trump in office is worth it to simply "own" the Dems. In which, broadly, I include you And on balance it is. This was broadly my take. I wanted Biden defeated, and preferably humiliated, but Trump v Harris didn't bother me all that much and on a foreign policy issue close to my heart I would have preferred Harris over the unpredictable Trump. However I am really enjoying Trump's win, especially all the crazy nominations. The next four years is going to be a trainwreck but damn it is going to be entertaining and watching the left scream on a near daily basis is going to be the very best part. |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Nov 15, 2024 18:44:14 GMT
Arriving in the U.S. legally doesn't make one a citizen, it makes one a legal (foreign) immigrant. Or possibly an illegal immigrant who came legally then overstayed. Bit like Melania then The point is, whether it should have been allowed for decades to happen or not, it did. There are millions of "undocumented" citizens going about their daily lives, working legally, paying mortgages, paying taxes , living a "normal" life, who never got around for whatever reason to formalising their affairs. I repeat again , these people in large numbers voted for Trump and just assume that "common sense" will apply, that he wont go after otherwise law-abiding citizens, just the criminals and gang members etc. As I said, they are all now basically just praying and fearing every knock at the door,,just in case. Whether you, or anyone else thinks that what they did (not formalising their status) was wrong is not the point, the point is THEY dont believe he means THEM when Trump says he is coming after "THEM" ARRGH!!!!!! If they "never formalised their affairs", then they ******COULDN'T*&******N vote for Trumop ior abntbvody else!!!!! If they *DID* vote, they were breaking the law. |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Nov 15, 2024 18:47:26 GMT
Bit like Melania then The point is, whether it should have been allowed for decades to happen or not, it did. There are millions of "undocumented" citizens going about their daily lives, working legally, paying mortgages, paying taxes , living a "normal" life, who never got around for whatever reason to formalising their affairs. I repeat again , these people in large numbers voted for Trump and just assume that "common sense" will apply, that he wont go after otherwise law-abiding citizens, just the criminals and gang members etc. As I said, they are all now basically just praying and fearing every knock at the door,,just in case. Whether you, or anyone else thinks that what they did (not formalising their status) was wrong is not the point, the point is THEY dont believe he means THEM when Trump says he is coming after "THEM" Are you referring to the children of illegal immigrants who were themselves born in the United States? If they were born in the USA, they are a) citizens and b) documented. By virtue of being born there. |
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Post by aargauer on Nov 15, 2024 18:48:59 GMT
Bit like Melania then The point is, whether it should have been allowed for decades to happen or not, it did. There are millions of "undocumented" citizens going about their daily lives, working legally, paying mortgages, paying taxes , living a "normal" life, who never got around for whatever reason to formalising their affairs. I repeat again , these people in large numbers voted for Trump and just assume that "common sense" will apply, that he wont go after otherwise law-abiding citizens, just the criminals and gang members etc. As I said, they are all now basically just praying and fearing every knock at the door,,just in case. Whether you, or anyone else thinks that what they did (not formalising their status) was wrong is not the point, the point is THEY dont believe he means THEM when Trump says he is coming after "THEM" ARRGH!!!!!! If they "never formalised their affairs", then they ******COULDN'T*&******N vote for Trumop ior abntbvody else!!!!! If they *DID* vote, they were breaking the law. Technically if you were born in the U.S. undocumented you are a US citizen. The same applies to people who came (often in early childhood) from overseas who were born to a US parent who themselves had lived in the U.S. for >10 years. They might not at least immediately have the documents to prove their parents whereabouts or even know it. I'm not aware of any other group. |
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