Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,996
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Post by Khunanup on Nov 15, 2024 12:30:08 GMT
This process of Trump dropping nomination after nomination of completely unacceptable nominees is highly amusing. For the Republican Party that is. Since they decided to prostrate themselves before him, so terrified of his fans' wrath, they have enabled him at every turn and the consequences are now stark in front of them. Do they try to multiply defy him and ditch all these crazy nominees that will damage their party and brand (and their country) throughout Trump's presidency and beyond, or do they stand up to him and put themselves at the mercy of the millions of crazies that inhabit their primary electorate. With an incapable president, this is going to be a wild ride... Focus on 2 or 3 nutters & block them. While the rest of the (relatively) less obvious nutters gently pass through. Which is a choice. There is literally no reason why they can't reject all the crazies, if they decide not to then they, their party and their country will suffer the consequences. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Nov 15, 2024 12:42:08 GMT
But there is also an argument that the US electorate deserves to get what it - pretty knowingly - voted for. Or at least minus the *most* outrageous bits.
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stb12
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Post by stb12 on Nov 15, 2024 13:18:59 GMT
Focus on 2 or 3 nutters & block them. While the rest of the (relatively) less obvious nutters gently pass through. Which is a choice. There is literally no reason why they can't reject all the crazies, if they decide not to then they, their party and their country will suffer the consequences. Political reality is the reason, the Senate does have it’s advice and consent power which they’re obviously entitled to use but if it seems like they’re blocking nearly everyone then it’s difficult for that to not look like an abuse of power. Even if the President is Trump |
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 15, 2024 13:24:15 GMT
Which is a choice. There is literally no reason why they can't reject all the crazies, if they decide not to then they, their party and their country will suffer the consequences. Political reality is the reason, the Senate does have it’s advice and consent power which they’re obviously entitled to use but if it seems like they’re blocking nearly everyone then it’s difficult for that to not look like an abuse of power. Even if the President is Trump But at least four individuals are "crazies"... |
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Post by bigfatron on Nov 15, 2024 13:29:30 GMT
But there is also an argument that the US electorate deserves to get what it - pretty knowingly - voted for. Or at least minus the *most* outrageous bits. I kind of agree with you, but it is striking how so many of those who voted/supported Trump despite some reservations relied on ‘well, clearly he won’t actually DO the things he’s said…’ as a justification for supporting him… |
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 15, 2024 13:47:35 GMT
This process of Trump dropping nomination after nomination of completely unacceptable nominees is highly amusing. For the Republican Party that is. Since they decided to prostrate themselves before him, so terrified of his fans' wrath, they have enabled him at every turn and the consequences are now stark in front of them. Do they try to multiply defy him and ditch all these crazy nominees that will damage their party and brand (and their country) throughout Trump's presidency and beyond, or do they stand up to him and put themselves at the mercy of the millions of crazies that inhabit their primary electorate. With an incapable president, this is going to be a wild ride... Sadly, I think the time for this has passed and it's now too late. This should have been done immediately after Jan 6th - it was a clear watershed moment for the GOP and they simply chickened out in favour of the chance of potentially winning now, whatever the long-term costs/damage. I think that, once the Trump era is over (if it ever is over?) they may well be in opposite for 3 or 4 cycles as it will have to rebuild itself from the base up, once it's figured out how to cleanse itself of MAGA. I suspect that in itself will be bloody & brutal. |
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 15, 2024 13:55:31 GMT
But there is also an argument that the US electorate deserves to get what it - pretty knowingly - voted for. Or at least minus the *most* outrageous bits. Sadly, I dont think a lot of them did "knowingly" vote for what they're gonna get. Many were convinced that China will pay the tariffs for example. Already heard dozens of stories of people who voted Trump and have already been told that their medicaid payments are about to be cancelled next year, so they now need to start figuring out how to come up with X-thousand dollars. Latino families who are undocumented who voted for Trump but they believe he will only go after "the bad guys", not them. I've never been a fan of saying "the ignorant should be punished for falling for the lies of snake-oil salesmen". We've had enough of that here in recent years. They're victims just as much as anyone who has suffered from an online scam. Maybe that's because I'm a bleeding heart liberal, but there it is. I just dont believe in pointing the fingers at people who've been conned and saying to them "more fool you". |
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aargauer
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Post by aargauer on Nov 15, 2024 14:32:59 GMT
But there is also an argument that the US electorate deserves to get what it - pretty knowingly - voted for. Or at least minus the *most* outrageous bits. Sadly, I dont think a lot of them did "knowingly" vote for what they're gonna get. Many were convinced that China will pay the tariffs for example. Already heard dozens of stories of people who voted Trump and have already been told that their medicaid payments are about to be cancelled next year, so they now need to start figuring out how to come up with X-thousand dollars. Latino families who are undocumented who voted for Trump but they believe he will only go after "the bad guys", not them. I've never been a fan of saying "the ignorant should be punished for falling for the lies of snake-oil salesmen". We've had enough of that here in recent years. They're victims just as much as anyone who has suffered from an online scam. Maybe that's because I'm a bleeding heart liberal, but there it is. I just dont believe in pointing the fingers at people who've been conned and saying to them "more fool you". If you are undocumented you can't vote. |
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 15, 2024 14:33:58 GMT
yes you can
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Post by timmullen on Nov 15, 2024 14:34:15 GMT
Sadly, I dont think a lot of them did "knowingly" vote for what they're gonna get. Many were convinced that China will pay the tariffs for example. Already heard dozens of stories of people who voted Trump and have already been told that their medicaid payments are about to be cancelled next year, so they now need to start figuring out how to come up with X-thousand dollars. Latino families who are undocumented who voted for Trump but they believe he will only go after "the bad guys", not them. I've never been a fan of saying "the ignorant should be punished for falling for the lies of snake-oil salesmen". We've had enough of that here in recent years. They're victims just as much as anyone who has suffered from an online scam. Maybe that's because I'm a bleeding heart liberal, but there it is. I just dont believe in pointing the fingers at people who've been conned and saying to them "more fool you". If you are undocumented you can't vote. I think it should read “whose families are undocumented”. |
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aargauer
Conservative
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Post by aargauer on Nov 15, 2024 14:37:36 GMT
Well not legally. We were told this was extremely rare, something that is probably at least approximately true. |
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 15, 2024 14:43:21 GMT
AIUI undocumented in this sense means "arrived there legally then just never 'formalised' their citizenship". There are many millions like this (not the same as the illegal migrants/gang members etc who come across the border and become covert, work in black economy etc). Undocumenteds have proper jobs, mortgages, pay taxes etc.
Whilst what Trump actually does with them is still not determined, the campaign rhetoric from him (and his new Border Tzar) was that they will be rounding up millions of them and deporting them. So we can either take them at their word or those families can just keep their fingers crossed and jump in fear every time there's a knock at the door
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Post by riccimarsh on Nov 15, 2024 14:43:24 GMT
But there is also an argument that the US electorate deserves to get what it - pretty knowingly - voted for. Or at least minus the *most* outrageous bits. I kind of agree with you, but it is striking how so many of those who voted/supported Trump despite some reservations relied on ‘well, clearly he won’t actually DO the things he’s said…’ as a justification for supporting him… I kind of agree with the “Americans deserve everything that’s coming to them” argument, but then you have interviews like this (and there is a longer 3 minute version on X) where the co-chair of Trump’s transition team specifically says that RFK Jr. will *not* be DHHS Secretary: So there is also an argument that people have been lied to about certain things… though they of course should be aware that a huge proportion of everything Trump and his team say is a lie. |
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 15, 2024 14:45:47 GMT
..but again, MAGA thinks that nothing he says is a lie and everything is distorted and twisted by fake MSM
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,729
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Post by J.G.Harston on Nov 15, 2024 15:18:03 GMT
Latino families who are undocumented who voted for Trump but they believe he will only go after "the bad guys", not them. They *ARE* the bad guys if they voted while not being citizens. JEEZ! |
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Nov 15, 2024 15:20:24 GMT
Mitch McConnell is a name to consider when it comes to the more controversial nominees. Everyone knows how he really feels about Trumpism, and despite his history with forcing through Supreme Court nominees that made him unpopular with many he is in most senses a traditionalist and certainly a Senate institutionalist He won’t have the obligations of leadership anymore and with his age and health issues is likely to be retiring in 2026 so doesn’t need to worry about primary challenges. So he’s not got much to lose inviting Trump’s wrath by voting against his nominees and using his influence to see there be enough votes against overall. He’s still a conservative so I’m not saying he’s going to blow everything up for the sake of getting back at Trump but I can certainly see him taking some action with nominees like Gaetz It is almost certain that McConnell will not seek another term, even if he was tempted he surely knows that he would suffer a humiliating defeat in the primary. It is probably safe to say that if he wants to take down any Trump nominee he will have no difficulty finding three other GOP senators to join him. Another one to watch is Todd Young as he declined to endorse Trump. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,996
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Post by Khunanup on Nov 15, 2024 15:54:41 GMT
AIUI undocumented in this sense means "arrived there legally then just never 'formalised' their citizenship". There are many millions like this (not the same as the illegal migrants/gang members etc who come across the border and become covert, work in black economy etc). Undocumenteds have proper jobs, mortgages, pay taxes etc. Whilst what Trump actually does with them is still not determined, the campaign rhetoric from him (and his new Border Tzar) was that they will be rounding up millions of them and deporting them. So we can either take them at their word or those families can just keep their fingers crossed and jump in fear every time there's a knock at the door It's Tsar or Czar, never Tzar (or Csar for that matter). |
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Post by riccimarsh on Nov 15, 2024 16:07:19 GMT
AIUI undocumented in this sense means "arrived there legally then just never 'formalised' their citizenship". There are many millions like this (not the same as the illegal migrants/gang members etc who come across the border and become covert, work in black economy etc). Undocumenteds have proper jobs, mortgages, pay taxes etc. Whilst what Trump actually does with them is still not determined, the campaign rhetoric from him (and his new Border Tzar) was that they will be rounding up millions of them and deporting them. So we can either take them at their word or those families can just keep their fingers crossed and jump in fear every time there's a knock at the door It's Tsar or Czar, never Tzar (or Csar for that matter). Try telling that to a crossword I did a couple of months ago (yes I’m still annoyed)!! |
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Post by uthacalthing on Nov 15, 2024 16:20:24 GMT
the *most* outrageous bits. Latino families who are undocumented who voted for Trump yep. |
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Post by Andrew_S on Nov 15, 2024 16:28:15 GMT
White dudes for Harris was a real phenomenon it seems. "In 2024, Kamala Harris did worse among Black voters than Joe Biden did in 2020. She did worse among female voters. She did much worse among Latino voters. She did much worse among young voters. She did manage to outperform Biden among two groups: affluent people and white voters, especially white men. If there is one sentence that captures the surprising results of this election, it is this one from the sociologist Musa al-Gharbi: “Democrats lost because everyone except for whites moved in the direction of Donald Trump this cycle.” Going into this campaign, I did not have that one on my bingo card." www.nytimes.com/2024/11/14/opinion/identity-groups-politics.html |
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