Bassetlaw

[mrhell]

Oct 28, 2019 21:09:41 GMT 🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️ said:

Oughtn't we wait for the Supreme Court of Europhile Girl's Blouses to rule on whether the Great Seal is entitled to do what it's always done?

No.

[John Chanin]

Oct 28, 2019 21:09:41 GMT 🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️ said:

Oughtn't we wait for the Supreme Court of Europhile Girl's Blouses to rule on whether the Great Seal is entitled to do what it's always done?

You really are an extremely stupid person.  Why don’t you find a more suitable website to post on?

[peterl]

No need to be unpleasant. This isn't the House of Commons.

[timmullen1]

Oct 28, 2019 14:29:24 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

Oct 28, 2019 14:27:48 GMT Andrew_S said:

Is this the first time someone has moved directly from the Commons to the Lords since Willie Whitelaw in 1983?

Since George Robertson in 1999.

Betty Boothroyd and Michael Martin?

[Andrew_S]

Oct 29, 2019 15:27:55 GMT timmullen1 said:

Oct 28, 2019 14:29:24 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

Since George Robertson in 1999.

Betty Boothroyd and Michael Martin?

That's true. I'd forgotten about the Speakers.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

Betty Boothroyd: Chiltern Hundreds 23 October 2000; cr. Baroness Boothroyd 15 January 2001
Michael Martin: Manor of Northstead 22 June 2009; cr. Baron Martin of Springburn 25 August 2009

[timmullen1]

Oct 29, 2019 15:52:04 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

Betty Boothroyd: Chiltern Hundreds 23 October 2000; cr. Baroness Boothroyd 15 January 2001
Michael Martin: Manor of Northstead 22 June 2009; cr. Baron Martin of Springburn 25 August 2009

Is it a case of waiting for an Honours List, whereas Mann did his t’other way around - accepted the job and the Peerage in May’s Resignation Honours but stayed in the Commons until shortly before the job was due to start?

[Richard Allen]

In any event it seems Mann did not go directly from the Commons to the Lords as he was appointed Steward and Bailiff of the Three Hundreds of Chiltern yesterday.

[pragmaticidealist]

I make it five threads about by-elections that never took place.

[The Bishop]

Oct 30, 2019 11:29:18 GMT pragmaticidealist said:

I make it five threads about by-elections that never took place.

There were a few before the 2017 GE as well (even not counting Gorton, which was actually countermanded)

[timrollpickering]

Oct 29, 2019 20:21:33 GMT Richard Allen said:

In any event it seems Mann did not go directly from the Commons to the Lords as he was appointed Steward and Bailiff of the Three Hundreds of Chiltern yesterday.

That's fairly standard for MPs going to the Lords - it makes it much easier to declare the seat vacant and get on with things.

[timmullen1]

Oct 29, 2019 20:21:33 GMT Richard Allen said:

In any event it seems Mann did not go directly from the Commons to the Lords as he was appointed Steward and Bailiff of the Three Hundreds of Chiltern yesterday.

Davıd Boothroyd is undoubtedly more knowledgeable than I on these things but as I understand it you can’t be a member of both Chambers at the same time, and there is also provision to prevent you from being disqualified from serving in the Commons against your will, therefore he likely had to formally demonstrate his willingness to be elevated to the Peerage by “resigning” from the Commons.

Whitelaw’s peerage mentioned earlier was not announced until two days after the 1983 GE at which he retired from the Commons.

[timrollpickering]

I think receiving a peerage is an active process of acceptance and does actually disqualify an MP but the process for taking up the peerage and declaring a vacancy takes longer, so appointing the outgoing MP to the Chilterns cuts out the waiting.

(Although in recess the reverse can be true - George Robertson was famously made a peer when he became Nato Secretary General as this was the only to get the by-election over and done with during the summer recess before the SNP could get a long campaign in.)

Whitelaw was re-elected in 1983 and immediately went to the Lords, with a by-election following. The same happened in 1970 when Hogg/Hailsham was appointed Lord Chancellor and sent to the Lords.

[Chris from Brum]

Oct 30, 2019 14:14:17 GMT timmullen1 said:

Oct 29, 2019 20:21:33 GMT Richard Allen said:

In any event it seems Mann did not go directly from the Commons to the Lords as he was appointed Steward and Bailiff of the Three Hundreds of Chiltern yesterday.

Davıd Boothroyd is undoubtedly more knowledgeable than I on these things but as I understand it you can’t be a member of both Chambers at the same time, and there is also provision to prevent you from being disqualified from serving in the Commons against your will, therefore he likely had to formally demonstrate his willingness to be elevated to the Peerage by “resigning” from the Commons.

Whitelaw’s peerage mentioned earlier was not announced until two days after the 1983 GE at which he retired from the Commons.

Whitelaw didn't retire at the GE, but he was elevated to the Lords almost immediately afterwards, causing a by election in Penrith and the Borders that the Tories nearly lost to the Liberal-SDP Alliance.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

Um, no.

There's no reason why an MP on whom a Peerage has been conferred must vacate their seat before the Peerage title is formally granted. The only reason MPs who are made Peers sometimes take the Chiltern Hundreds is that it allows an earlier byelection.

Whitelaw was re-elected in Penrith and the Border in 1983, so his elevation caused a byelection in July which was won very narrowly by David Maclean.

[timmullen1]

Oct 30, 2019 14:40:52 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

Um, no.

There's no reason why an MP on whom a Peerage has been conferred must vacate their seat before the Peerage title is formally granted. The only reason MPs who are made Peers sometimes take the Chiltern Hundreds is that it allows an earlier byelection.

Whitelaw was re-elected in Penrith and the Border in 1983, so his elevation caused a byelection in July which was won very narrowly by David Maclean.

I take the Whitelaw point, but I’m still dubious that Mann could have taken his seat in the Lords without departing the Commons first.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

Oct 30, 2019 14:44:55 GMT timmullen1 said:

Oct 30, 2019 14:40:52 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

Um, no.

There's no reason why an MP on whom a Peerage has been conferred must vacate their seat before the Peerage title is formally granted. The only reason MPs who are made Peers sometimes take the Chiltern Hundreds is that it allows an earlier byelection.

Whitelaw was re-elected in Penrith and the Border in 1983, so his elevation caused a byelection in July which was won very narrowly by David Maclean.

I take the Whitelaw point, but I’m still dubious that Mann could have taken his seat in the Lords without departing the Commons first.

His seat would have been vacated the moment the Peerage was created. Last happened in 1999 (George Robertson) and before then 1990 (David Waddington).

[neilm]

What happened with Jeff Rooker? Was he appointed immediately upon Parliament being 'closed' or did it happen after the election? He carried on as a minister IIRC (obviously you don't need to be a member of either house to be one) and took on a new ministerial job post election.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

Rooker was awarded a Peerage in the dissolution honours list which was issued on 2 June 2001 - five days before polling day. He had already announced he was standing down. The Peerage was actually created on 16 June, and he was introduced on 21 June - the day after the Queen's Speech.

[timmullen1]

Mann took his seat in the Lords yesterday BTW.