neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
|
Post by neilm on Jun 27, 2019 5:45:37 GMT
Wrt Grimond and Bergen, didn't the form specify mainline Station and he argued that Thurso was merely the end of a branch line?
|
|
|
|
Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Jun 27, 2019 5:53:40 GMT
Why are Orkney and Shetland separated for the Scottish Parliment, I see no reason with regards to population Probably because they're separate councils and have differing needs. |
|
Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922 
|
Post by Harry Hayfield on Jun 27, 2019 7:49:25 GMT
Why are Orkney and Shetland separated for the Scottish Parliment, I see no reason with regards to population The Scotland Act (1998) states in Schedule 1, Section 1 "The constituencies for the purposes of this Act are— (a) the Orkney Islands, (b) the Shetland Islands, and (c) the parliamentary constituencies in Scotland, except a parliamentary constituency including either of those islands" |
|
Eastwood
Non-Aligned
Politically restricted post
Posts: 2,122
|
Post by Eastwood on Jun 27, 2019 9:03:45 GMT
He was making a sarcastic point because the parliamentary authorities had little understanding of the difficulties of getting to Shetland and had been complaining about his costs. Thurso is closer to all of the constituency than Bergen. Bergen is the closest major city though. Sadly the Smyril Line hasn’t called in Lerwick or Bergen for quite a few years now so there’s no easy connection these days. Isn't Smyril partly owned by Shetland Council? Or maybe the Shetland Charitable Trust? Yes it’s a sensitive issue. Shetland Development Trus invested £4M and then a few years later Smyril dropped all stops at Shetland. Shetland have tried to get the money back since but the whole Ferry industry has been in crisis so the value of their investment is much reduced. It is a shame as it was a useful link. |
|
cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 9,141
|
Post by cogload on Jun 27, 2019 9:18:53 GMT
There is a direct plane link from Bergen to Sumburgh these days.
|
|
|
|
Post by owainsutton on Jun 27, 2019 9:27:13 GMT
Why are Orkney and Shetland separated for the Scottish Parliment, I see no reason with regards to population Probably because they're separate councils and have differing needs. One can put the question the other way around: why are they not separated for Westminster? I see no reason with regards to population, neither is much smaller by itself than Na h-Eileanan an Iar. |
|
neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
|
Post by neilm on Jun 27, 2019 9:54:37 GMT
Isn't Smyril partly owned by Shetland Council? Or maybe the Shetland Charitable Trust? Yes it’s a sensitive issue. Shetland Development Trus invested £4M and then a few years later Smyril dropped all stops at Shetland. Shetland have tried to get the money back since but the whole Ferry industry has been in crisis so the value of their investment is much reduced. It is a shame as it was a useful link. Have the council ever been reimbursed for building all the oil worker houses? The Smyril thing is a pity, a friend of mine is going on a Denmark-Faeroes-Iceland cruise with them this year and I assumed there would be a stop off. |
|
|
|
Post by owainsutton on Jun 27, 2019 10:17:01 GMT
One can put the question the other way around: why are they not separated for Westminster? I see no reason with regards to population, neither is much smaller by itself than Na h-Eileanan an Iar. Different boundary rules, I think. Something is pinging in the back of my head about Holyrood needing a specific number of seats, that could be it. The parliament was established with constituencies matching those of Westminster at the time, though, with the division of Orkney & Shetland being the only exception. It also wasn't created with a consistent ration between constituencies in a region and the list seats for the region, the latter being the same regardless of constituencies. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2019 10:19:57 GMT
Probably because they're separate councils and have differing needs. One can put the question the other way around: why are they not separated for Westminster? I see no reason with regards to population, neither is much smaller by itself than Na h-Eileanan an Iar. The Isles have never been separate at a Westminster level, they even shared a constituency pre 1707. |
|
|
|
Post by timrollpickering on Jun 27, 2019 10:26:51 GMT
Probably because they're separate councils and have differing needs. One can put the question the other way around: why are they not separated for Westminster? I see no reason with regards to population, neither is much smaller by itself than Na h-Eileanan an Iar. IIRC the rules for Westminster have always kept open the option for separate seats, providing they remain entirely within the Northern Isles, but successive reviews seem to have concluded the existing arrangements are satisfactory. The straightforward answer for Holyrood is that this was part of the package announced back in the 1990s rather than an administrative decision by the reviews. I suspect it was an attempt to see off demands for island autonomy - back in 1978 Shetland held its own referendum on having its position considered separately - and more generally because the Northern Isles have been consistently sceptical of devolution or independence, with the highest No vote % in all three referendums cast in Shetland or Orkney. |
|
|
|
Post by timrollpickering on Jun 27, 2019 10:32:39 GMT
Different boundary rules, I think. Something is pinging in the back of my head about Holyrood needing a specific number of seats, that could be it. The parliament was established with constituencies matching those of Westminster at the time, though, with the division of Orkney & Shetland being the only exception. It also wasn't created with a consistent ration between constituencies in a region and the list seats for the region, the latter being the same regardless of constituencies. IIRC the list regions were what would have been the European Parliament constituencies had PR not been introduced. Currently all regions have seven list members but either eight constituencies (Highlands & Islands), nine (most of them) or ten (North East and West). In theory seat size variations can be absorbed by AMS, but in practice the implementation throws up various anomalies. |
|
|
|
Post by owainsutton on Jun 27, 2019 17:46:21 GMT
One can put the question the other way around: why are they not separated for Westminster? I see no reason with regards to population, neither is much smaller by itself than Na h-Eileanan an Iar. The Isles have never been separate at a Westminster level, they even shared a constituency pre 1707. They've only been a single constituency in this form since 1918 - until then, Kirkwall was part of Wick Burghs. |
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 27, 2019 17:53:55 GMT
The Isles have never been separate at a Westminster level, they even shared a constituency pre 1707. They've only been a single constituency in this form since 1918 - until then, Kirkwall was part of Wick Burghs. It was also part of Orkney and Shetland; freeholders in Kirkwall got a vote for the county seat as well as the district of burghs. |
|
|
|
Post by greatkingrat on Jun 27, 2019 18:46:06 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by owainsutton on Jun 27, 2019 19:04:15 GMT
Credit to the member for Glasgow Pollok, for the chutzpah of trying to use car ownership rates there and in Orkney to make his point. |
|
neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
|
Post by neilm on Jun 27, 2019 19:38:26 GMT
I'd forgotten about Peter Brand.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2019 20:31:37 GMT
One option would be to have the undersized Orkney, Shetland and Na h-Eileanan an Iar constituencies, but with the voters in them not partaking in the list stage to partly counterbalance the smaller constituencies. I've suggested this on this site before, when I was made aware that such an arrangement is already used in the Aosta Valley for Italian elections.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2019 20:43:31 GMT
One option would be to have the undersized Orkney, Shetland and Na h-Eileanan an Iar constituencies, but with the voters in them not partaking in the list stage to partly counterbalance the smaller constituencies. I've suggested this on this site before, when I was made aware that such an arrangement is already used in the Aosta Valley for Italian elections. This is not Italy. You can't have two classes of voters. |
|
|
|
Post by owainsutton on Jun 27, 2019 20:48:55 GMT
One option would be to have the undersized Orkney, Shetland and Na h-Eileanan an Iar constituencies, but with the voters in them not partaking in the list stage to partly counterbalance the smaller constituencies. I've suggested this on this site before, when I was made aware that such an arrangement is already used in the Aosta Valley for Italian elections. This is not Italy. You can't have two classes of voters. Tell that to EU citizens during a general election  Or, for that matter, 16 and 17 year olds in Scotland during the same. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2019 20:53:32 GMT
One option would be to have the undersized Orkney, Shetland and Na h-Eileanan an Iar constituencies, but with the voters in them not partaking in the list stage to partly counterbalance the smaller constituencies. I've suggested this on this site before, when I was made aware that such an arrangement is already used in the Aosta Valley for Italian elections. . You can't have two classes of voters. Enorme se vero |
|
