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Post by timrollpickering on Apr 11, 2019 15:01:39 GMT
A thread to keep track of these. |
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andrewp
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Post by andrewp on Apr 18, 2019 20:34:14 GMT
2nd one. Ross on Wye North, Herefordshire due to death of the UKIP candidate
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Post by froome on Apr 19, 2019 3:35:03 GMT
Out of interest. how late can an election be countermanded? Would it happen if one candidate died the day before the polling day or on polling day itself?
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Post by johnloony on Apr 19, 2019 3:41:05 GMT
Out of interest. how late can an election be countermanded? Would it happen if one candidate died the day before the polling day or on polling day itself? Right up to the close of poll at 10pm. Officially, the poll is abandoned as soon as the death is confirmed to the Returning Officer. Unofficially, there have occasionally been elections which went ahead in spite of the death of a candidate, because the RO wasn't told - even with the death being common knowledge. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Apr 19, 2019 7:08:22 GMT
Out of interest. how late can an election be countermanded? Would it happen if one candidate died the day before the polling day or on polling day itself? Right up to the close of poll at 10pm. Officially, the poll is abandoned as soon as the death is confirmed to the Returning Officer. Unofficially, there have occasionally been elections which went ahead in spite of the death of a candidate, because the RO wasn't told - even with the death being common knowledge. One such case being in Liverpool in 1996 when the Lord Mayor of Liverpool, Michael Black, died on polling day. He went on to lose the seat. In point of fact the poll can be countermanded at any time up until the declaration of the result. |
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Post by BossMan on Apr 19, 2019 7:47:24 GMT
Have there been any known incidences of a candidate dying after 10pm on polling day and before the announcement of the result, and the election still being countermanded? That wouldn't make any sense, especially if they keel over in the location of the count in the presence of the returning officer and a doctor.
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Post by timrollpickering on Apr 19, 2019 12:24:23 GMT
There have been some cases of general election candidates dying between polling and counts some days or weeks later. Noel Skelton died three days before the count for the Combined Scottish Universities in 1935 (eight days after polling day) and was elected posthumously, with Ramsay MacDonald winning the subsequent by-election. Sir Edward Campbell, MP for Bromley, died in the three week wait in July 1945 and there was a by-election in November with Harold Macmillan coming back.
Of interest, what exactly is "confirmed" to the Returning Officer? Can a doctor confirm life is extinct there & then or does a formal death certificate have to be issued & delivered?
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Post by andrewteale on Apr 19, 2019 12:36:00 GMT
2nd one. Ross on Wye North, Herefordshire due to death of the UKIP candidate Ross North was already an open seat following the death of outgoing Tory councillor Jenny Hyde. That vacancy was covered by the six-month rule. |
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Post by johnloony on Apr 19, 2019 15:33:55 GMT
Right up to the close of poll at 10pm. Officially, the poll is abandoned as soon as the death is confirmed to the Returning Officer. Unofficially, there have occasionally been elections which went ahead in spite of the death of a candidate, because the RO wasn't told - even with the death being common knowledge. One such case being in Liverpool in 1996 when the Lord Mayor of Liverpool, Michael Black, died on polling day. He went on to lose the seat. In point of fact the poll can be countermanded at any time up until the declaration of the result. I had a feeling that that was the case, although in practice I would hope that any R.O. in that situation would have the good sense to decide not to notice the death. My guess is that the law doesn't specifically define what method of communication or confirmation is required for the R.O. to be notified of the death, and (if the death happens close to polling day) would also provide a convenient loophole to allow the R.O. to ignore the death until after the declaration. |
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Post by sjorford on Apr 21, 2019 19:54:17 GMT
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andrewp
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Post by andrewp on Apr 22, 2019 15:48:35 GMT
That’s the 3rd one I believe. He had been a councillor since 2011 and was 69. Was facing Conservative and Labour opponents. His 2015 result was Ind 735, Con 538, UKIP 178, Green 173 |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Apr 22, 2019 17:30:27 GMT
That’s the 3rd one I believe. He had been a councillor since 2011 and was 69. Was facing Conservative and Labour opponents. His 2015 result was Ind 735, Con 538, UKIP 178, Green 173 Are the rules the same for countermanded local elections the same as for general elections? I.e. that registered parties can replace deceased candidates but independents cannot? |
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Post by sjorford on Apr 23, 2019 19:53:37 GMT
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Post by sjorford on Apr 24, 2019 17:41:33 GMT
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Post by jonnymorris on Apr 24, 2019 23:21:11 GMT
Have there been any known incidences of a candidate dying after 10pm on polling day and before the announcement of the result, and the election still being countermanded? That wouldn't make any sense, especially if they keel over in the location of the count in the presence of the returning officer and a doctor. This sounds suspiciously as though you are hatching a plan. |
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Apr 25, 2019 0:26:31 GMT
Have there been any known incidences of a candidate dying after 10pm on polling day and before the announcement of the result, and the election still being countermanded? That wouldn't make any sense, especially if they keel over in the location of the count in the presence of the returning officer and a doctor. This sounds suspiciously as though you are hatching a plan. I’m only speculating but would the provision not stop at close of poll as its aim is prevent the election of a deceased person, but once polls are closed the result cannot be influenced? |
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Crimson King
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Post by Crimson King on Apr 25, 2019 10:41:49 GMT
This sounds suspiciously as though you are hatching a plan. I’m only speculating but would the provision not stop at close of poll as its aim is prevent the election of a deceased person, but once polls are closed the result cannot be influenced? I think that as noted above the provision is technically until the declaration of the result. whether a returning officer would fail to notice a candidate keeling over before the declaration but after the close of poll is another matter. Even if it occurred at the count the unfortunate candidate would likely be hauled into an ambulance and not actually declared dead at the scene, so the RO could easily be not formally notified until after the declaration |
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Apr 25, 2019 10:57:01 GMT
I’m only speculating but would the provision not stop at close of poll as its aim is prevent the election of a deceased person, but once polls are closed the result cannot be influenced? I think that as noted above the provision is technically until the declaration of the result. whether a returning officer would fail to notice a candidate keeling over before the declaration but after the close of poll is another matter. Even if it occurred at the count the unfortunate candidate would likely be hauled into an ambulance and not actually declared dead at the scene, so the RO could easily be not formally notified until after the declaration I realise we’re in broad agreement but if it was declaration of result would there not have to be a fixed time for counting, i.e. either everybody starts at 10.01pm Thursday, because those counting at 10am Friday then have an extra 12 hours for the unfortunate candidate to expire? |
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Post by timrollpickering on Apr 25, 2019 11:07:24 GMT
As I said above, is a qualified GP's declaration sufficient or does there actually need to be a death certificate issued?
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Crimson King
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Post by Crimson King on Apr 25, 2019 11:08:01 GMT
I suspect that risk is not considered significant enough to be a factor in deciding when to count. I note above that a couple of examples were given of deaths between the close of poll and a count some days later. Both were described as being followed by by-elections so unless that was a mistake the RO must have failed (or chosen to fail) to notice the death or perhaps the law has changed since then. It's times like this we need to call on Davıd Boothroyd |
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Election in St Osyth, Tendring DC is countermandered due to the death of Conservative candidate Anita Bailey.
