|
Post by finsobruce on Aug 2, 2019 15:46:29 GMT
James Cleverly makes an argument for AV: A fine example of someone advocating a change because the result didn't go their way.
Plaid and the Greens standing down hardly counts as a 'backroom deal' - it could hardly have been more upfront.
|
|
|
Post by finsobruce on Aug 2, 2019 15:47:08 GMT
Anyone know which is Labour's worst ever result in Wales? how far back do you want to go?
|
|
|
Post by syorkssocialist on Aug 2, 2019 16:01:37 GMT
It's only very slightly worse than Ceredigion 2010 and Montgomeryshire 2015.
|
|
|
Post by johnloony on Aug 2, 2019 17:41:27 GMT
It is amusing to read the various comments about the Brexit party supposedly supposedly splitting the Conservative vote and letting in the Liberal Democrats, or the so-called Remain alliance taking votes from Plaid Cymru and the Green party. Such people misunderstand how FPTP works. The people who voted for the Brexit party did so because they wanted to. They did not want to vote for the Conservative party. I don't blame the Brexit party; I blame the voters. Everybody knew how the system works.
|
|
|
Post by Andrew_S on Aug 2, 2019 18:25:55 GMT
It is amusing to read the various comments about the Brexit party supposedly supposedly splitting the Conservative vote and letting in the Liberal Democrats, or the so-called Remain alliance taking votes from Plaid Cymru and the Green party. Such people misunderstand how FPTP works. The people who voted for the Brexit party did so because they wanted to. They did not want to vote for the Conservative party. I don't blame the Brexit party; I blame the voters. Everybody knew how the system works. If AV had been in operation, it's unlikely that more than about 30% of the Brexit Party votes would have actually transferred to the Conservatives. The LDs might still have won under that system.
|
|
peterl
Green
Monarchic Technocratic Localist
Posts: 8,260
|
Post by peterl on Aug 2, 2019 18:46:50 GMT
It is amusing to read the various comments about the Brexit party supposedly supposedly splitting the Conservative vote and letting in the Liberal Democrats, or the so-called Remain alliance taking votes from Plaid Cymru and the Green party. Such people misunderstand how FPTP works. The people who voted for the Brexit party did so because they wanted to. They did not want to vote for the Conservative party. I don't blame the Brexit party; I blame the voters. Everybody knew how the system works. It is by no means certain that all Brexit Party voters would have seen a Tory victory as desirable. Chris Davies voted for the "withdrawal" agreement, which was why Brexit refused to entertain the idea of standing down for him.
|
|
Adrian
Co-operative Party
Posts: 1,726
|
Post by Adrian on Aug 2, 2019 19:15:02 GMT
"Everybody knew how the system works."
Alas this was not true and never will be true.
|
|
Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,559
|
Post by Khunanup on Aug 2, 2019 19:18:24 GMT
James Cleverly makes an argument for AV: A fine example of someone advocating a change because the result didn't go their way.
Plaid and the Greens standing down hardly counts as a 'backroom deal' - it could hardly have been more upfront.
Only 73 spoilt ballot papers as well which was a very interesting low number in the circumstances.
|
|
|
Post by Pete Whitehead on Aug 2, 2019 19:27:35 GMT
I don't think Plaid Cymru and the Greens not standing was all that significant. In the 10 previous elections in this seat on the current boundaries, only once (in 2015) was the combined vote for these two parties greater than the majority the Lib Dems won yesterday. Squeezing the Labour vote was, as ever, far more important.
|
|
|
Post by Adam in Stroud on Aug 2, 2019 19:35:00 GMT
Agree with all that except number 5- that will survive this. My number 5 would have been that it would have been A poor show not to have gained it given the circumstances Agreed. I dont think it kills the Boris bounce, but it prevents it gaining any more steam. It's as good as it gets for Boris now - downhill from here.The other 4 point I agree totally with. It's particularly important for us given the evident lack of defections, for whatever reason. Your amendment, if correct, is still important for us. I agree that it'll take more than one by-election where the Conservatives were expected to lose to puncture Boris' bubble. But it is quite likely to deflate a bit anyway in the normal run of things - the more slow leaks we can introduce, the better.
|
|
Jack
Reform Party
Posts: 8,163
|
Post by Jack on Aug 2, 2019 19:44:53 GMT
James Cleverly makes an argument for AV: I see Leavers are now doing the "yeah, but if you add up all the other votes, actually we won" argument.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2019 19:51:22 GMT
Loved that declaration. If you want to know the result, learn the local language, damn you outsiders. Just wait till the Scots get that idea...... Ach you'll all dae fine, ken. Tha Albais furasta, is dòcha gum bi Chris a ’strì nas motha le fìor chànan ge-tà!
|
|
|
Post by Adam in Stroud on Aug 2, 2019 20:10:25 GMT
I don't think Plaid Cymru and the Greens not standing was all that significant. In the 10 previous elections in this seat on the current boundaries, only once (in 2015) was the combined vote for these two parties greater than the majority the Lib Dems won yesterday. Squeezing the Labour vote was, as ever, far more important. That seems right, though having the Greens and PC stand aside (and Allen and Soubry campaign for us, perhaps) just maybe made it easier for Lab voters to switch?
|
|
|
Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Aug 2, 2019 20:10:53 GMT
Ach you'll all dae fine, ken. Tha Albais furasta, is dòcha gum bi Chris a ’strì nas motha le fìor chànan ge-tà! Aye. I think everyone on this forum but you would tbh.😅
|
|
|
Post by edgbaston on Aug 2, 2019 20:24:27 GMT
I don't think Plaid Cymru and the Greens not standing was all that significant. In the 10 previous elections in this seat on the current boundaries, only once (in 2015) was the combined vote for these two parties greater than the majority the Lib Dems won yesterday. Squeezing the Labour vote was, as ever, far more important. That seems right, though having the Greens and PC stand aside ( and Allen and Soubry campaign for us, perhaps) just maybe made it easier for Lab voters to switch? Made it harder if anything. To any particularly resentful tactical voter I'm sure it was salt in the wounds!
|
|
Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,229
Member is Online
|
Post by Chris from Brum on Aug 2, 2019 20:24:50 GMT
Ach you'll all dae fine, ken. Tha Albais furasta, is dòcha gum bi Chris a ’strì nas motha le fìor chànan ge-tà! That's easy for you to say.
|
|
|
Post by Adam in Stroud on Aug 2, 2019 20:37:58 GMT
That seems right, though having the Greens and PC stand aside ( and Allen and Soubry campaign for us, perhaps) just maybe made it easier for Lab voters to switch? Made it harder if anything. To any particularly resentful tactical voter I'm sure it was salt in the wounds! I suppose that's possible too. Doesn't seem to be reflected in the results though. I can see your point regarding activists and party loyalists, but suspect the more typical vote-at-elections-but-not-fussed-the-rest-of-the-time Labour voter might have felt it easier to vote tactically if they felt everyone else was doing it.
|
|
|
Post by andrew111 on Aug 2, 2019 20:48:55 GMT
James Cleverly makes an argument for AV: A fine example of someone advocating a change because the result didn't go their way.
Plaid and the Greens standing down hardly counts as a 'backroom deal' - it could hardly have been more upfront.
After some prompting Cleverley called it a "dirty backroom deal". How would he describe the Tories not standing agaimst "Independent Conservative" Goldsmith in Richmond Park? Not to mention UKIP publicly giving a bunch of Eurodsceptic Tories a free run in 2017?
|
|
|
Post by finsobruce on Aug 2, 2019 20:49:51 GMT
A fine example of someone advocating a change because the result didn't go their way.
Plaid and the Greens standing down hardly counts as a 'backroom deal' - it could hardly have been more upfront.
After some prompting Cleverley called it a "dirty backroom deal". How would he describe the Tories not standing agaimst "Independent Conservative" Goldsmith in Richmond Park? Plan B?
|
|
|
Post by edgbaston on Aug 2, 2019 20:52:47 GMT
A fine example of someone advocating a change because the result didn't go their way.
Plaid and the Greens standing down hardly counts as a 'backroom deal' - it could hardly have been more upfront.
After some prompting Cleverley called it a "dirty backroom deal". How would he describe the Tories not standing agaimst "Independent Conservative" Goldsmith in Richmond Park? You maybe assume Cleverley is an honest actor, ha!
|
|