carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 12, 2019 9:12:42 GMT
Oh, that old take the politics out of politics nonsense. So called community politics - utter waste of time and yet another reason why the LibDems are my least favourite party. In any case most local council casework is a waste of time amd money. Few councillors know what they are doing. I'd get rid of the lot and have much smaller numbers of councillors entirely focusing on making policy and would greatly expand both the citizens advice service and the ombudsmen service to deal with local problems. No more little Napoleons! Having spent 15 years training Citizens’ Advice volunteers I can think of few things more inappropriate and downright dangerous. Then stop doing it at once. |
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timmullen1
Labour
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Post by timmullen1 on Apr 12, 2019 9:14:23 GMT
Having spent 15 years training Citizens’ Advice volunteers I can think of few things more inappropriate and downright dangerous. Then stop doing it at once. I did, in 1996, the last time I left the house that wasn’t in the back of an ambulance! |
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andrewp
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Post by andrewp on Apr 12, 2019 9:45:09 GMT
Cyfarthfa turnout is 27%
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The Bishop
Labour
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 12, 2019 10:11:43 GMT
Extremely poor performance by Labour It is clear that quite a lot of our previous vote went your way. I recall you saying previously that Labour weren't putting that much effort in here, which does strike me as somewhat odd on the face of it. What did you campaign on? |
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Tony Otim
Green
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Post by Tony Otim on Apr 12, 2019 10:33:35 GMT
Extremely poor performance by Labour It is clear that quite a lot of our previous vote went your way. I recall you saying previously that Labour weren't putting that much effort in here, which does strike me as somewhat odd on the face of it. What did you campaign on? It was edinburghtory who commented on the lack of Labour activity. I wasn't actively involved but campaign focus was affordable family housing, public transport and green spaces, but housing mainly I think... |
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andrewp
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Post by andrewp on Apr 12, 2019 10:34:23 GMT
Cyfarthfa is an Independent Jones win
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Apr 12, 2019 10:34:34 GMT
Independent Michelle Jones wins Cafarthfa with 861 votes.
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andrewp
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Post by andrewp on Apr 12, 2019 10:41:11 GMT
Merthyr, Cyfarthfa
Independent Jones 861
Labour 330
Independent Griffiths 180
Conservative 48
Ind Jones 60.7%
Labour 23.3%
Ind Griffiths 12.7%
Conservative 3.4%
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Tony Otim
Green
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Post by Tony Otim on Apr 12, 2019 10:46:17 GMT
Merthyr, Cyfarthfa Independent Jones 861 Labour 330 Independent Griffiths 180 Conservative 48 Ind Jones 60.7% Labour 23.3% Ind Griffiths 12.7% Conservative 3.4% Well that was quite emphatic |
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Post by polaris on Apr 12, 2019 11:00:24 GMT
Having spent 15 years training Citizens’ Advice volunteers I can think of few things more inappropriate and downright dangerous. Having the service run by volunteers is the main problem. I have been both a deputy manager and a management committee member of CABx. They do the best they can but it's not sufficiently well resourced. However they do far more use that the bulk of local councillors who are time wasting busybodies irrespective of party. Moving to the cabinet system has made most of them superfluous to requirements. I would also abolish the second chamber and stop Mps doing so-called casework which does nothing but waste the time of those trying their best to do a difficult job. The time MPs waste on that could be spent doing proper scrutiny work. Again with teeth - not the farcical excuse for it which goes on at local government level. It really makes hardly any difference who runs local councils these days. They run few services directly, can't set the budget they want, and most of the expenditure is prescribed - adult social care etc. The rhetoric changes but what a council can really do is so limited. Labour councillors can do little but impose central government cuts in a less damaging way. There isn't necessarily a conflict between dealing with policy issues and doing casework. Casework allows MPs and Councillors to see the consequences of the policies that they are voting for and implementing - like the Universal Credit fiasco for example - and how it affects their constituents.
It is true that many councillors don't have much training (or aptitude) for dealing with casework, and there are some who get completely bogged down and turn being a backbench councillor into a 70-hour a week job. But often it doesn't need much aptitude - it is just a matter of putting people into contact with the right person or chivvying along officers who may not see a particular issue as a priority. And some people are great at getting results for their constituents.
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Post by polaris on Apr 12, 2019 11:05:21 GMT
Extremely poor performance by Labour. And entirely consistent with recent Scottish polling. Richard Leonard doesn't seem to be making any impact at all - a case study in the dangers of choosing leaders (and other candidates and officeholders) solely on the basis of factional alignment and loyalty to the UK leadership. |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 12, 2019 11:07:44 GMT
Having the service run by volunteers is the main problem. I have been both a deputy manager and a management committee member of CABx. They do the best they can but it's not sufficiently well resourced. However they do far more use that the bulk of local councillors who are time wasting busybodies irrespective of party. Moving to the cabinet system has made most of them superfluous to requirements. I would also abolish the second chamber and stop Mps doing so-called casework which does nothing but waste the time of those trying their best to do a difficult job. The time MPs waste on that could be spent doing proper scrutiny work. Again with teeth - not the farcical excuse for it which goes on at local government level. It really makes hardly any difference who runs local councils these days. They run few services directly, can't set the budget they want, and most of the expenditure is prescribed - adult social care etc. The rhetoric changes but what a council can really do is so limited. Labour councillors can do little but impose central government cuts in a less damaging way. There isn't necessarily a conflict between dealing with policy issues and doing casework. Casework allows MPs and Councillors to see the consequences of the policies that they are voting for and implementing - like the Universal Credit fiasco for example - and how it affects their constituents.
It is true that many councillors don't have much training (or aptitude) for dealing with casework, and there are some who get completely bogged down and turn being a backbench councillor into a 70-hour a week job. But often it doesn't need much aptitude - it is just a matter of putting people into contact with the right person or chivvying along officers who may not see a particular issue as a priority. And some people are great at getting results for their constituents.
But the point at issue here for Merseymike and me is that a councillor should be dealing with the formation of policy for the running and direction of the local authority area. He should not be a social worker, nanny and free adviser. And, equally importantly he should have a much wider remit with more control over funding, taxes and how services are delivered. |
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Post by justin124 on Apr 12, 2019 11:14:54 GMT
Leith Walk (Edinburgh) result: first pref: SNP: 35.7% (+1.4) GRN: 25.5% (+5.9) LAB: 15.5% (-7.0) CON: 10.7% (-3.7) LDEM: 8.6% (+4.8) IND (Illingworth): 1.5% (+1.5) UKIP: 1.2% (+1.2) SLP: 0.8% (-0.1) IND (Scott): 0.2% (+0.2) FBM: 0.2% (+0.2) LBT: 0.2% (+0.2) So a few comments: It's about par for the course for the SNP, but they won the seat so they'll be happy. We did better than I expected, I thought we might pip Labour for second, but to beat them by 10% exceeded my expectations and we pushed the SNP quite close on transfers. This is the SGP's best performance in a by-election ever. Extremely poor performance by Labour. Conservatives also down, which is different from most Scottish by-elections - may be a quirk of the area, a consequence of them starting in 4th... It's not something I would read too much into yet until we see it in other places. Lib Dems achieved a healthy boost to their vote. Whether that would be matched in an all out election when other wards may be using up resources, I don't know but at least they're heading the right way. Is there any obvious reason for Labour's poor performance here? I would have expected them to be making a serious effort in order to remain competitive there at any Westminster election.. Polls for Westminster show Labour and Tories pretty well neck and neck for second place at circa 23% - 25%- little changed really from 2017. Why is Labour underperforming at these local by elections? |
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The Bishop
Labour
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 12, 2019 11:16:08 GMT
Extremely poor performance by Labour. And entirely consistent with recent Scottish polling. Richard Leonard doesn't seem to be making any impact at all - a case study in the dangers of choosing leaders (and other candidates and officeholders) solely on the basis of factional alignment and loyalty to the UK leadership. It was a choice of two factionalists, there is little evidence to suggest the anti-Corbyn faction's man (Sarwar) would be doing much better if at all. (and let's draw a veil at how things went under media favourite Jim Murphy, shall we......) |
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Post by justin124 on Apr 12, 2019 11:22:42 GMT
Extremely poor performance by Labour. And entirely consistent with recent Scottish polling. Richard Leonard doesn't seem to be making any impact at all - a case study in the dangers of choosing leaders (and other candidates and officeholders) solely on the basis of factional alignment and loyalty to the UK leadership. But Labour remains neck and neck with the Tories for second place in Westminster voting intention polls - little changed from 2017. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 12, 2019 11:26:03 GMT
Apart from his own shortcomings (which I am not going to dispute) there is of course a depressingly obvious reason why a Leonard led SLab might be struggling.
But we're not allowed to mention that, are we? Cuddly civic nationalism and all that......
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Apr 12, 2019 11:29:18 GMT
Community/Town Councils but the spin is as though they're much bigger
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Post by justin124 on Apr 12, 2019 11:30:23 GMT
Apart from his own shortcomings (which I am not going to dispute) there is of course a depressingly obvious reason why a Leonard led SLab might be struggling. But we're not allowed to mention that, are we? Cuddly civic nationalism and all that...... Being English did not appear to damage the likes of Churchill and Asquith too much when fighting seats in Scotland. |
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The Bishop
Labour
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 12, 2019 11:32:08 GMT
Different times, somewhat.
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Post by polaris on Apr 12, 2019 11:35:30 GMT
And entirely consistent with recent Scottish polling. Richard Leonard doesn't seem to be making any impact at all - a case study in the dangers of choosing leaders (and other candidates and officeholders) solely on the basis of factional alignment and loyalty to the UK leadership. It was a choice of two factionalists, there is little evidence to suggest the anti-Corbyn faction's man (Sarwar) would be doing much better if at all. (and let's draw a veil at how things went under media favourite Jim Murphy, shall we......) Scottish Labour has deep structural problems and any leader would struggle. But I think Sarwar had a bit more about him, more get up and go.
Leonard is typical of the 'grey men' so beloved of the supposedly youthful and vibrant radical left.
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