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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 28, 2022 12:09:45 GMT
I think we have to be clear that accusations of sexual harassment were used as part of internal feuding. The case of Jas Athwal ought to be very well known, in which accusations suddenly appeared when Athwal looked likely to prevent the leadership's favoured candidate from winning a Parliamentary selection, allowing him to be suspended and removed from the contest. The claims turned out to have no substance.
The cases against Lewis and Woodcock related to fairly low-grade but genuine accusations, but both were spun out for months and both were already profoundly disaffected from the Labour Party leadership of the day. Is it any wonder both just left the party?
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Post by mattbewilson on Feb 28, 2022 14:28:04 GMT
It isn't true to say that the claims had no substance. There was a lack of evidence, which is often the case in allegations of sexual harassment. I don't say this lightly as I have family who spent the night in a cell because of false allegations. Is there any wonder? Yes. I wouldn't have left, unless it was in the best interest of the victim for me to leave I'd have stayed. I don't care if you're left or right. If you're John Woodcock and Ivan Lewis or if you're Kelvin Hopkins
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batman
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Post by batman on Feb 28, 2022 14:59:54 GMT
I think David is basically right. The allegations against Jas Athwal always seemed pretty surprising. In the case of Ivan Lewis, however, I know one of the complainants & have no reason to doubt that the allegations had some substance
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Mar 1, 2022 0:18:27 GMT
I was surprised to find that Lewis is only 54. Last time I saw him he looked tired out.
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bsjmcr
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Post by bsjmcr on Mar 1, 2022 0:48:58 GMT
I was surprised to find that Lewis is only 54. Last time I saw him he looked tired out. He certainly went grey very early. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Sept 24, 2022 19:52:55 GMT
I wonder if fellow fake Tory johnloony would follow.. |
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batman
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Post by batman on Sept 24, 2022 20:03:40 GMT
it would be weird for a constituency to have 2 consecutive Conservative MPs who ended up defecting to Labour.
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aargauer
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Post by aargauer on Sept 24, 2022 20:08:40 GMT
Saying Britain needs a centre right party would be an odd thing to say if you were about to defect to labour.
There is certainly a chasm for a certain sort of voter since the sensible Lib Dems were sadly defeated and the tories moved more populist.
We need PR. 1 party for the whole of the right is not enough.
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 24, 2022 20:09:09 GMT
I wonder if fellow fake Tory johnloony would follow.. Unlikely while the two party duopoly exists in the case of Barwell. It would be interesting to see how the membership of the party - and Labour - would differ if that duopoly no longer existed. There are a lot of MPs who are clearly not greatly enthusiastic about Truss. |
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wallington
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Post by wallington on Sept 24, 2022 22:11:13 GMT
I wonder if fellow fake Tory johnloony would follow.. I understand that Barwell had close links with May and was pretty strongly anti-Johnson, but he never struck me as being anything more than a pretty moderate centre-right Conservative MP. He still has pretty close links with the Croydon Conservatives as far as I can tell. Although johnloony can tell us if that's not the case anymore. I really can't imagine him defecting, especially to Labour, or instigating to form a new political party. Probably just has a bit more independence being a lord to be a voice for some backbench MPs who are out in the cold and won't actually do anything. |
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wallington
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Post by wallington on Sept 24, 2022 22:15:12 GMT
Saying Britain needs a centre right party would be an odd thing to say if you were about to defect to labour. There is certainly a chasm for a certain sort of voter since the sensible Lib Dems were sadly defeated and the tories moved more populist. We need PR. 1 party for the whole of the right is not enough. This is it really. after a significant time in government, it's pretty much impossible to please the big tents, be you on the left or right. |
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Post by mattbewilson on Sept 24, 2022 23:00:03 GMT
Roy Jenkins biography details an interesting argument over direction of the SDP. Roy himself believed the SDP should occupy the gap in the centre vacated by labour and the conservatives. David Owen though believed the SDP should replace Labour as the party of the centre left
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2022 6:45:04 GMT
I wonder if fellow fake Tory johnloony would follow.. I understand that Barwell had close links with May and was pretty strongly anti-Johnson, but he never struck me as being anything more than a pretty moderate centre-right Conservative MP. He still has pretty close links with the Croydon Conservatives as far as I can tell. Although johnloony can tell us if that's not the case anymore. I really can't imagine him defecting, especially to Labour, or instigating to form a new political party. Probably just has a bit more independence being a lord to be a voice for some backbench MPs who are out in the cold and won't actually do anything. What happened with ChangeUK killed off any chance of a new party being formed for decades. Generations even. |
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Sept 25, 2022 6:57:48 GMT
Roy Jenkins biography details an interesting argument over direction of the SDP. Roy himself believed the SDP should occupy the gap in the centre vacated by labour and the conservatives. David Owen though believed the SDP should replace Labour as the party of the centre left IIRC, Jenkins originally wanted to call it the “Centre Party” which didn’t go down well with the others. |
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Sept 25, 2022 7:00:05 GMT
I understand that Barwell had close links with May and was pretty strongly anti-Johnson, but he never struck me as being anything more than a pretty moderate centre-right Conservative MP. He still has pretty close links with the Croydon Conservatives as far as I can tell. Although johnloony can tell us if that's not the case anymore. I really can't imagine him defecting, especially to Labour, or instigating to form a new political party. Probably just has a bit more independence being a lord to be a voice for some backbench MPs who are out in the cold and won't actually do anything. What happened with ChangeUK killed off any chance of a new party being formed for decades. Generations even. I think that what Gavin means is that we should stay in the Conservative Party and make sure it returns to the mainstream centre-right position. |
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aargauer
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Post by aargauer on Sept 25, 2022 7:17:06 GMT
What happened with ChangeUK killed off any chance of a new party being formed for decades. Generations even. I think that what Gavin means is that we should stay in the Conservative Party and make sure it returns to the mainstream centre-right position. Johnson for all his character defects was pretty mainstream centre right. |
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Post by heslingtonian on Sept 25, 2022 9:38:09 GMT
I wonder if fellow fake Tory johnloony would follow.. Pretty rich of someone like Longworth (who was a Brexit Party MEP) to seek to lecture someone like Barwell (who has been an active Conservative for decades, worked for many years at Conservative Central Office and was a Conservative MP and Minister) about being a true Conservative. |
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 25, 2022 10:26:19 GMT
I wonder if fellow fake Tory johnloony would follow.. Pretty rich of someone like Longworth (who was a Brexit Party MEP) to seek to lecture someone like Barwell (who has been an active Conservative for decades, worked for many years at Conservative Central Office and was a Conservative MP and Minister) about being a true Conservative. And especially since he seems to think he himself is a Whig rather than a Tory. |
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nodealbrexiteer
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Sept 25, 2022 10:30:36 GMT
Pretty rich of someone like Longworth (who was a Brexit Party MEP) to seek to lecture someone like Barwell (who has been an active Conservative for decades, worked for many years at Conservative Central Office and was a Conservative MP and Minister) about being a true Conservative. And especially since he seems to think he himself is a Whig rather than a Tory. Well there'll be hell toupee |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 25, 2022 10:42:29 GMT
I understand that Barwell had close links with May and was pretty strongly anti-Johnson, but he never struck me as being anything more than a pretty moderate centre-right Conservative MP. He still has pretty close links with the Croydon Conservatives as far as I can tell. Although johnloony can tell us if that's not the case anymore. I really can't imagine him defecting, especially to Labour, or instigating to form a new political party. Probably just has a bit more independence being a lord to be a voice for some backbench MPs who are out in the cold and won't actually do anything. What happened with ChangeUK killed off any chance of a new party being formed for decades. Generations even. Chuka Umunna's magic touch  |
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