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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Feb 21, 2022 19:36:53 GMT
I have met Tony Page and came away with a fairly positive opinion of him. That said, this meeting was in discussion of a policy where I was largely in agreement with his position. It's entirely possible that my opinion of him would have been different in different circumstances. Well, if you're pro-developer or actually a developer, you'll love him. He is rather rude to people whom he disagrees with. |
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Post by nobodyimportant on Feb 21, 2022 20:13:14 GMT
I have met Tony Page and came away with a fairly positive opinion of him. That said, this meeting was in discussion of a policy where I was largely in agreement with his position. It's entirely possible that my opinion of him would have been different in different circumstances. Well, if you're pro-developer or actually a developer, you'll love him. He is rather rude to people whom he disagrees with. It was something relating to buses. I don't remember exactly what off the top of my head - this was a good 10 years ago now. |
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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Feb 22, 2022 0:31:35 GMT
Well, if you're pro-developer or actually a developer, you'll love him. He is rather rude to people whom he disagrees with. It was something relating to buses. I don't remember exactly what off the top of my head - this was a good 10 years ago now. He also loves buses, that'll be why.  |
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ricmk
Lib Dem
Posts: 2,619 
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Post by ricmk on Feb 24, 2022 17:35:00 GMT
If this:
is on the right lines, then it would affect the following:
Diane Abbott
John McDonnell
Richard Burgon
Ian Lavery
Beth Winter
Zarah Sultana
Bell Ribeiro-Addy
Apsana Begum
Mick Whitley
Tahir Ali
Ian Mearns
Several names there who have a reputation for never changing their mind or toeing leadership lines so not hard to see them having the whip withdrawn. I'm not sure there is anyone there Starmer would see as a big loss, and it's another way of establishing clear red water from the Corbyn era. Can't wait to see how Skwawkbox would report it though...
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Feb 24, 2022 17:55:11 GMT
Whitley isn't one of the usual suspects, is he? He's on the left but he was Ed Miliband's PPS until he resigned to vote against compulsory vaccines for NHS staff.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,916
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 24, 2022 18:28:46 GMT
Well they may not have a reputation for changing their minds or bowing to leadership demands, but that seems to be exactly what they have done.
Isn't it actually correct that said statement was put out before the start of hostilities? If so, the above isn't so surprising - Putin has very few friends left today.
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Post by matureleft on Feb 24, 2022 18:34:38 GMT
Well they may not have a reputation for changing their minds or bowing to leadership demands, but that seems to be exactly what they have done. Isn't it actually correct that said statement was put out before the start of hostilities? If so, the above isn't so surprising - Putin has very few friends left today. Yes, a version appeared a couple of days ago. The one published today, that I’ve posted elsewhere, is a slightly revised version. |
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Post by batman on Feb 25, 2022 2:34:26 GMT
all 11 have AFAIK withdrawn their signatures. Jeremy Corbyn however has not done so. This according to an insider makes his regaining of the whip even less likely
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bsjmcr
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,591
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Post by bsjmcr on Feb 25, 2022 9:31:09 GMT
all 11 have AFAIK withdrawn their signatures. Jeremy Corbyn however has not done so. This according to an insider makes his regaining of the whip even less likelyHe's probably conceded that one and maybe even enjoys his independent status given a handful of Labour MPs went independent under his leadership to undermine him so maybe he wants to give KS 'a taste of his own medicine'. It's all very sad really and unlikely to do much damage, rather he disappeared quietly but still... Didn't Michael Foot remain an MP until 1992? Bit before my time but did he try and be a thorn in Kinnock's side? Surely not. |
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Post by matureleft on Feb 25, 2022 9:47:44 GMT
all 11 have AFAIK withdrawn their signatures. Jeremy Corbyn however has not done so. This according to an insider makes his regaining of the whip even less likelyHe's probably conceded that one and maybe even enjoys his independent status given a handful of Labour MPs went independent under his leadership to undermine him so maybe he wants to give KS 'a taste of his own medicine'. It's all very sad really and unlikely to do much damage, rather he disappeared quietly but still... Didn't Michael Foot remain an MP until 1992? Bit before my time but did he try and be a thorn in Kinnock's side? Surely not. He did remain an MP until 1992. As I recall he pursued the things that interested him. I don't think he was a particular bother and certainly wouldn't have aimed to be "a thorn in the side". Corbyn is a very different person (and, actually, not particularly like Foot ideologically). |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 25, 2022 9:48:53 GMT
Neil Kinnock was Michael Foot's protegé and they got on really well. Foot was a strong personal and political supporter. He did pursue his own political causes (which included urging support for Croatia's dodgy independence leader Franjo Tuđman).
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Post by mattbewilson on Feb 25, 2022 10:12:42 GMT
I discovered recently Michael Foot had been suspended from the whip in the 1960s. It's entirely possible that had Hugh Gaitskill lived he'd never been allowed to stand in 1964. History would have been very different.
As for Corbyn, it's hardly a threat to have the Labour whip threaten you if you don't have the Labour whip
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Post by mattbewilson on Feb 25, 2022 10:20:41 GMT
It does feel like there is a growing intolerance in the Labour Party for difference of opinion. I don't agree with the MPs that signed this letter but I think they're entitled to that position. In trying to broaden our base we appear to be trying to narrow opinion in the party. It becomes a very lonely place when you don't agree with everything said. I understand many felt the same not all that long ago but I don't remember anyone being threatened to lose to whip over a difference of opinion. I'd also hope that those who felt alienated in the party during the Corbyn years wouldn't want anyone else to experience that
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 25, 2022 10:28:04 GMT
Wait until you read about what Clement Attlee did to the Labour MPs who signed a letter supporting the wrong Italian Socialist Party in 1948.
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Post by rcronald on Feb 25, 2022 10:29:30 GMT
It does feel like there is a growing intolerance in the Labour Party for difference of opinion. I don't agree with the MPs that signed this letter but I think they're entitled to that position. In trying to broaden our base we appear to be trying to narrow opinion in the party. It becomes a very lonely place when you don't agree with everything said. I understand many felt the same not all that long ago but I don't remember anyone being threatened to lose to whip over a difference of opinion. I'd also hope that those who felt alienated in the party during the Corbyn years wouldn't want anyone else to experience that Sometimes, when a party moves to the centre it losses its character and some of its more uniqueness, happened to us after Cameron won the leadership. |
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Post by mattbewilson on Feb 25, 2022 10:38:14 GMT
Wait until you read about what Clement Attlee did to the Labour MPs who signed a letter supporting the wrong Italian Socialist Party in 1948. Nye Bevan was suspended by the party twice and Stafford Cripps as well. Both ended up serving in Attlee's cabinet. Can't see that happening this time though |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,916
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 25, 2022 10:43:40 GMT
Most famously, Bevan was almost expelled from the party in the run-up to the 1955 GE.
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bsjmcr
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,591
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Post by bsjmcr on Feb 25, 2022 10:48:23 GMT
It does feel like there is a growing intolerance in the Labour Party for difference of opinion. I don't agree with the MPs that signed this letter but I think they're entitled to that position. In trying to broaden our base we appear to be trying to narrow opinion in the party. It becomes a very lonely place when you don't agree with everything said. I understand many felt the same not all that long ago but I don't remember anyone being threatened to lose to whip over a difference of opinion. I'd also hope that those who felt alienated in the party during the Corbyn years wouldn't want anyone else to experience that Sorry, I feel like this was exactly the case during the Corbyn years, even if not by the man himself (though one example of this is removing Hilary Benn from the cabinet IIRC? And Ivan Lewis was the first shadow cabinet minister to be sacked, by text message, as soon has he became leader), certainly I get the impression his activists across the country (and McCluskey and other cronies probably pulling the strings) were worse, threatening deselections and 'trigger ballots' left right and centre, and the word 'Blairite' used as an insult, as if it was a toxic word. But Blair or his party didn't threaten to remove JC or anyone from his wing during his time... and the fact that the far left either is unaware or chooses to forget, the fact that he won 3 elections - the loss of X million votes '97-05 is a moot point... This is why Andy Burnham was very astute to keep his powder dry and become a local leader - stepping back from JC's shadow cabinet to become Mayor - so that he did not resign in disgrace or be sacked for being 'Blairite'. Whereas I do understand the frustration of some of the left around Starmer 'betraying' them, being a former JC cabinet loyalist, running for leader on a similar policy, then recycling into a 'Blairite' - though all that means is trying to steer to electability, no doubt he will have to continue with putting up with such shouting from the sidelines. |
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Post by mattbewilson on Feb 25, 2022 10:59:55 GMT
It does feel like there is a growing intolerance in the Labour Party for difference of opinion. I don't agree with the MPs that signed this letter but I think they're entitled to that position. In trying to broaden our base we appear to be trying to narrow opinion in the party. It becomes a very lonely place when you don't agree with everything said. I understand many felt the same not all that long ago but I don't remember anyone being threatened to lose to whip over a difference of opinion. I'd also hope that those who felt alienated in the party during the Corbyn years wouldn't want anyone else to experience that Sorry, I feel like this was exactly the case during the Corbyn years, even if not by the man himself (though one example of this is removing Hilary Benn from the cabinet IIRC? And Ivan Lewis was the first shadow cabinet minister to be sacked, by text message, as soon has he became leader), certainly I get the impression his activists across the country (and McCluskey and other cronies probably pulling the strings) were worse, threatening deselections and 'trigger ballots' left right and centre, and the word 'Blairite' used as an insult, as if it was a toxic word. But Blair or his party didn't threaten to remove JC or anyone from his wing during his time... and the fact that the far left either is unaware or chooses to forget, the fact that he won 3 elections - the loss of X million votes '97-05 is a moot point... This is why Andy Burnham was very astute to keep his powder dry and become a local leader - stepping back from JC's shadow cabinet to become Mayor - so that he did not resign in disgrace or be sacked for being 'Blairite'. Whereas I do understand the frustration of some of the left around Starmer 'betraying' them, being a former JC cabinet loyalist, running for leader on a similar policy, then recycling into a 'Blairite' - though all that means is trying to steer to electability, no doubt he will have to continue with putting up with such shouting from the sidelines. I literally address this further down in the paragraph. |
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Post by mattbewilson on Feb 25, 2022 11:08:23 GMT
It does feel like there is a growing intolerance in the Labour Party for difference of opinion. I don't agree with the MPs that signed this letter but I think they're entitled to that position. In trying to broaden our base we appear to be trying to narrow opinion in the party. It becomes a very lonely place when you don't agree with everything said. I understand many felt the same not all that long ago but I don't remember anyone being threatened to lose to whip over a difference of opinion. I'd also hope that those who felt alienated in the party during the Corbyn years wouldn't want anyone else to experience that Sorry, I feel like this was exactly the case during the Corbyn years, even if not by the man himself (though one example of this is removing Hilary Benn from the cabinet IIRC? And Ivan Lewis was the first shadow cabinet minister to be sacked, by text message, as soon has he became leader), certainly I get the impression his activists across the country (and McCluskey and other cronies probably pulling the strings) were worse, threatening deselections and 'trigger ballots' left right and centre, and the word 'Blairite' used as an insult, as if it was a toxic word. But Blair or his party didn't threaten to remove JC or anyone from his wing during his time... and the fact that the far left either is unaware or chooses to forget, the fact that he won 3 elections - the loss of X million votes '97-05 is a moot point... This is why Andy Burnham was very astute to keep his powder dry and become a local leader - stepping back from JC's shadow cabinet to become Mayor - so that he did not resign in disgrace or be sacked for being 'Blairite'. Whereas I do understand the frustration of some of the left around Starmer 'betraying' them, being a former JC cabinet loyalist, running for leader on a similar policy, then recycling into a 'Blairite' - though all that means is trying to steer to electability, no doubt he will have to continue with putting up with such shouting from the sidelines. Also worth saying that sacking shadow cabinet members is not akin to suspending them. Particularly in the case of Hilary Benn who was sacked for organising shadow ministerial resignations. The handling of many sackings were poor but not because they were malicious but because the LOTO was crap. Many activists behaved in disgusting manner of ways but I see many activists now baying for deselection blood of Sam Tarry who has been nothing but loyal and Zarah Sultana. Truth is left or moderate they're all cunts that will deselect in you in your moment of 'betrayal'. Andy stayed loyal because he has only ever been loyal. 90% of people could learn from him |
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