|
|
Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Dec 4, 2024 11:21:15 GMT
This is what I find so astonishing about a lot of self-proclaimed centrists/liberals. They expect every other party to offer just a slightly tweaked or rebadged version of their own worldview. They can't conceive of a world in which people - voters and party members alike - might genuinely want a party that is actually conservative. And these 'centrists' aren't actually centrist They invariably believe in: Climate change - and all that that involves; More wokery - and all that involves; More globalism - and all that that involves; More taxation - and all that that involves; More war - and all that that involves. Less free speech - and all that that involves. Pretty extreme actually. They are totally unaware I'm not going to correct your tick boxes of twaddle as much as you'd like. The idea that I'm in favour of more war and less free speech is for the birds, I'll say that. |
|
|
|
Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Dec 4, 2024 11:24:41 GMT
Extremist? No, but two conservative parties? Montgomerie always was. He is a conservative. Badenoch is a conservative. So why Reform? Because many voters want a Nationalistic Conservative Party, which Reform proports to be. People don't see the Conservatives as a Nationalistic Party, rather as party of self interest, hence the perceived need for Reform. I think this is where we might end up before the next election, Reform as further right "good old days" right wing party, and the Conservatives (if they keep that name!) as the Cameron-ish,Major -ish, moderate "build up for the future not anchored to the past" party. There would have to be a tonne of defections and restructuring to get there. |
|
|
|
Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Dec 4, 2024 11:46:43 GMT
Because many voters want a Nationalistic Conservative Party, which Reform proports to be. People don't see the Conservatives as a Nationalistic Party, rather as party of self interest, hence the perceived need for Reform. I think this is where we might end up before the next election, Reform as further right "good old days" right wing party, and the Conservatives (if they keep that name!) as the Cameron-ish,Major -ish, moderate "build up for the future not anchored to the past" party. There would have to be a tonne of defections and restructuring to get there. It's not just about the good old days, though there is an element of that. It's also about feeling like one has a say in the future. The reason Reform exists is the other parties of left and right are perceived not to be listening. There is no real reason Reform couldn't have emerged on the left of politics if that party of the left was perceived to be listening. Reform's existence is about people wanting to feel included, that means a localist point of view predominating in people's angst and complaints because people feel ignored by the powers of the city, country, Europe, the world, around where they live. Reform would not exist in a society that is moving forward in an inclusive way. Is Reform the best vehicle to move forward in such an inclusive way, well that is a completely different question. |
|
|
|
Post by matureleft on Dec 4, 2024 11:54:07 GMT
The term conservative is often misused. It essentially means being averse to change and holding to ‘traditional’ (of course a loose definition itself) values. While most parties that see themselves as conservative are parties favouring free enterprise that isn’t a necessary element. Nor is it the case that all conservatives favour freedom of expression - that can run entirely counter to the protection of traditional values. Neither is adherence to free trade a particularly conservative position. And, dare I say it, nor is having a particularly small state - large armed forces and big law enforcement agencies plus some other state apparatus aren’t inconsistent with conservatism.
Our own Conservative Party is actually characterised by its adaptability as its main purpose is to win elections. I wouldn’t describe it as a conservative party although it has undoubtedly had plenty of conservative members.
|
|
|
|
Post by swanarcadian on Dec 4, 2024 12:12:37 GMT
Angus MacNeill, fmr Western Isles MP, SNP to Alba.
|
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Dec 4, 2024 12:34:11 GMT
Angus MacNeill, fmr Western Isles MP, SNP to Alba. Expelled from the SNP in August last year, and had associated with the two Alba MPs in the last Parliament, so this is not exactly an earth-shattering development. |
|
|
|
Post by MacShimidh on Dec 4, 2024 12:38:17 GMT
Angus MacNeill, fmr Western Isles MP, SNP to Alba. Expelled from the SNP in August last year, and had associated with the two Alba MPs in the last Parliament, so this is not exactly an earth-shattering development. The only surprising thing is that it’s taken this long. If he had done it back in March 2021 along with Hanvey and MacAskill this might have had some significance, but it’s far too late now. |
|
stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,399 
|
Post by stb12 on Dec 4, 2024 12:54:30 GMT
Alba also supported his independent bid at the GE
|
|
|
|
Post by jimboo2017 on Dec 4, 2024 13:25:21 GMT
Quite a few of you here are indulging in rather silly generalisations. Well, at least two of you are. that's a pretty specific charge |
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 39,015
|
Post by The Bishop on Dec 4, 2024 14:41:43 GMT
Well if nothing else this is interesting in that he still seems to see Alba as a viable concern, despite the talk that Salmond's passing had effectively made it redundant.
|
|
|
|
Post by uthacalthing on Dec 4, 2024 14:56:15 GMT
It may indicate that he has no immediate ambitions or even hopes politically and can afford the self-indulgence of being true to himself.
|
|
|
|
Post by michaelarden on Dec 4, 2024 16:18:14 GMT
Angus MacNeill, fmr Western Isles MP, SNP to Alba. Rat joining a sinking ship dinghy full of rats. |
|
|
|
Post by uthacalthing on Dec 4, 2024 16:24:50 GMT
Angus MacNeill, fmr Western Isles MP, SNP to Alba. Rat joining a sinking ship dinghy full of rats. Ho ho thats so witty I suspect that he prefers to socialise with people that whose company he enjoys and who enjoy his company I can imagine them having social zoom calls, dram in hand |
|
|
|
Post by michaelarden on Dec 4, 2024 16:33:54 GMT
Rat joining a sinking ship dinghy full of rats. Ho ho thats so witty I suspect that he prefers to socialise with people that whose company he enjoys and who enjoy his company I can imagine them having social zoom calls, dram in hand Can you have a Zoom call with yourself? |
|
Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,916
|
Post by Tony Otim on Dec 4, 2024 17:00:30 GMT
It may indicate that he has no immediate ambitions or even hopes politically and can afford the self-indulgence of being true to himself. Or that he's been offered top of the Highlands and Islands list in 2026, which doesn't give him much chance of being elected, but fractionally more than 0. |
|
|
|
Post by uthacalthing on Dec 4, 2024 17:03:22 GMT
He would be an Ornament to the Scottish Parliament
|
|
Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,916
|
Post by Tony Otim on Dec 4, 2024 17:04:29 GMT
He would be an Ornament to the Scottish Parliament As in he would sit upon the shelf and serve no practical purpose? |
|
|
|
Post by uthacalthing on Dec 4, 2024 17:07:17 GMT
Gathering dust and the occasional kind or unkind comment
|
|
|
|
Post by gibbon on Dec 4, 2024 18:01:20 GMT
After Roy Jenkins and others left the Labour Party and formed the SDP many people prophesied the end of the Labour Party. They were wrong. Are we seeing the same hype with Reform and the Conservative Party? It will be interesting to see what effect Reform have on the Conservaative vote in the local elections. Will the Conservatives lose seats to Reform or will the Liberal Democrats gain from the split in the 'right wing' vote? Will the Musk money really help Reform?
|
|
|
|
Post by batman on Dec 4, 2024 20:58:32 GMT
Are people really forecasting the end of the Tories though? I certainly am not doing so.
|
|
