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Post by tonyhil on Jun 16, 2024 17:52:27 GMT
I'm really surprised how few defections there have been so far from the Conservatives to Reform.
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,651
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jun 16, 2024 18:07:50 GMT
I'm really surprised how few defections there have been so far from the Conservatives to Reform. I'm not; if you are a councillor with a good relationship with your local MP or candidate, or who is close to those fighting the campaign as well as they can, why would you choose this moment, when you probably don't know or, perhaps, don't particularly care for, the Reform candidate? I suspect a few, but more after polling day.
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Post by casualobserver on Jun 16, 2024 20:35:37 GMT
I feel a little conflicted over this matter. I cannot really justify what's happened to Faiza Shaheen, but it's quid pro quo for what Corbynites did in the past. As the Labour candidate for Chingford many years ago, against Norman Tebbit, I do desperately hope that all this doesn't enable Duncan-Smith to survive. I thought Keir's intention was to suppress party factionalism in the name of party unity to win the election. I don't see how this deselection supports that aim, but again I'm no longer a Labour supporter - so maybe someone who does support it can enlighten me. Keir is suppressing and ultimately eliminating party factionalism by ridding the left from the Party.
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Post by batman on Jun 16, 2024 21:18:57 GMT
There are still plenty of left-wingers in the party & there are quite a few of them standing for re-election on July 4, especially in London & Liverpool. What there is a lack of is left-wing candidates attacking Tory seats. One left-winger Chris Webb has already gained his Tory seat in a by-election & will doubtless hold on/notionally gain it again. Others are few & far between but Beccy Cooper (Worthing West) & Josh Fenton-Glynn (Calder Valley) are two who should be confident enough of making it to parliament - they're generally regarded as being broadly aligned with the left although both of them seem to be respected away from the left too.
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jamie
Top Poster
Posts: 7,022
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Post by jamie on Jun 16, 2024 21:24:56 GMT
There are still plenty of left-wingers in the party & there are quite a few of them standing for re-election on July 4, especially in London & Liverpool. What there is a lack of is left-wing candidates attacking Tory seats. One left-winger Chris Webb has already gained his Tory seat in a by-election & will doubtless hold on/notionally gain it again. Others are few & far between but Beccy Cooper (Worthing West) & Josh Fenton-Glynn (Calder Valley) are two who should be confident enough of making it to parliament - they're generally regarded as being broadly aligned with the left although both of them seem to be respected away from the left too. FWIW, Momentum have also endorsed the candidates in ‘Crewe and Nantwich’ and ‘Dagenham and Rainham’ who will both presumably win.
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 16, 2024 21:41:59 GMT
I'm really surprised how few defections there have been so far from the Conservatives to Reform. If that was to be 'a thing' and organized on a very quiet basis, I would do the roll-out in the first part of the last 10-days to try for a rolling bandwagon effect on the polling station vote.
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pl
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,635
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Post by pl on Jun 16, 2024 21:44:44 GMT
I'm really surprised how few defections there have been so far from the Conservatives to Reform. If that was to be 'a thing' and organized on a very quiet basis, I would do the roll-out in the first part of the last 10-days to try for a rolling bandwagon effect on the polling station vote. Surely Reform's target demographic are heavy overweighted towards postal voters, who have already voted or are soon to.
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 16, 2024 21:56:45 GMT
If that was to be 'a thing' and organized on a very quiet basis, I would do the roll-out in the first part of the last 10-days to try for a rolling bandwagon effect on the polling station vote. Surely Reform's target demographic area heavy overweighted towards postal voters, who have already voted or are soon to. Much truth in that. The sudden short call for 4th July probably wrong-footed an in-place roll-out for the early autumn? So it was a choice of do it immediately, do it late or do it after the election. After election loses all traction for maxing-out the GE vote. An early roll-out had to wait on the Farage takeover and a rush to get candidates registered. That just leaves a late push for a final bandwagon at the sacrifice of the PVs. Most PVs will have made up their minds or be solid tribal party members they hope. But the scope for manoeuvre was a bit constrained. And all this is predicated on there being an actual cadre of former MPs wanting to defect? There probably is no such cadre.
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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Jun 17, 2024 1:53:13 GMT
I thought Keir's intention was to suppress party factionalism in the name of party unity to win the election. I don't see how this deselection supports that aim, but again I'm no longer a Labour supporter - so maybe someone who does support it can enlighten me. Keir is suppressing and ultimately eliminating party factionalism by ridding the left from the Party. Haha - let's see how well that goes for him. The right of the party has internal divisions as well.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 17, 2024 9:36:20 GMT
Herefordshire, Kerne Bridge (2027). Simeon Cole, Conservative to Liberal Democrat. Did this ever happen? He is back in the Conservatives and voted for a Conservative leader in the council AGM this year.
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Post by Strontium Dog on Jun 17, 2024 11:00:13 GMT
As of yesterday, Michael Cashman is listed as "non-affiliated" on the Lords website. members.parliament.uk/member/4340/careerI would presume this is connected to his misogynistic attack upon the marvellous Rosie Duffield on the anniversary of Jo Cox's murder.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,304
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 17, 2024 11:46:06 GMT
As was pointed out by andrea recently, two Labour candidates were dropped late on due to errant comments/social media stuff - Faiza and Graham Jones (the latter had his suspension lifted recently, but was not then allowed to contest Hyndburn as most had expected would be the case) One from the left and one from the right of the party. Similarly with late withdrawals due to allegations of personal misconduct- Lloyd Russell-Moyle on the left and Darren Rodwell on the right. If this was all some massive "purge" of the left, then it wasn't a very widespread or efficient one. Part of the problem may, again, be the mood music from certain party "sources" with the ear of political journalists. It wasn't just Diane Abbott who these people were going to prevent standing as a Labour candidate, but pretty much the entire Campaign Group of MPs. This was never a remotely realistic prospect, however. If you look at the selections as a whole, especially who were excluded from selection shortlists, you will see it massively benefits the right wing of the Labour Party. I don’t think anyone can seriously argue with that. Also all four mentioned above were replaced with those on the right. Whether you think it’s right or wrong is another matter. There is some truth in this, and a few of the exclusions have indeed been pretty indefensible - Greg Marshall in Broxtowe very much comes to mind there. But quite a lot of them seem to fall into a pattern - somebody indignantly claiming they have been shut out "for liking a tweet by the Green party" or something similarly trivial, only for further examination to reveal there was actually a bit more to it than that.
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Post by batman on Jun 17, 2024 12:01:01 GMT
I'm afraid that in general there tends to be a lack of honesty from people who are suspended or expelled from political parties. Hardly anyone says "it's a fair cop" or such like. During the height of my party's antisemitism crisis, I lost count of the number of people who said they were disciplined for minor offence A, only for digging to find that they had also committed more major offence B and/or C. People routinely said that they had been suspended for "criticism of the Israeli government/opposition to Israel" or such formulations, only for it to be found readily that they had said something that almost everybody could recognise as blatantly antisemitic, or had liked a post which was clearly antisemitic. I could give any number of examples on request though mostly they aren't public figures. This phenomenon however is far from entirely confined to the Labour Party; people are generally inclined to minimise the things they have done wrong.
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 17, 2024 13:02:42 GMT
If you look at the selections as a whole, especially who were excluded from selection shortlists, you will see it massively benefits the right wing of the Labour Party. I don’t think anyone can seriously argue with that. Also all four mentioned above were replaced with those on the right. Whether you think it’s right or wrong is another matter. There is some truth in this, and a few of the exclusions have indeed been pretty indefensible - Greg Marshall in Broxtowe very much comes to mind there. But quite a lot of them seem to fall into a pattern - somebody indignantly claiming they have been shut out "for liking a tweet by the Green party" or something similarly trivial, only for further examination to reveal there was actually a bit more to it than that. For me, I don't agree about the Israel issue. Basically agreed with Corbyn. I don't think there is 'a bit more to it'.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,304
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 18, 2024 10:18:46 GMT
It is fair to say that nobody has been stopped from standing as a Labour candidate simply for expressing pro-Palestinian sympathies or "criticising Israel".
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 18, 2024 12:44:58 GMT
It is fair to say that nobody has been stopped from standing as a Labour candidate simply for expressing pro-Palestinian sympathies or "criticising Israel". Really? I don't agree, at all.
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ColinJ
Labour
Living in the Past
Posts: 2,116
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Post by ColinJ on Jun 18, 2024 18:18:04 GMT
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 18, 2024 18:33:57 GMT
It's funny how quickly these blokes can go from unacceptable face of capitalism to top-bloke-never-doubted-him. Like Jim Radcliffe. A bit like Guy Hands reinvented himself as wise guru of Remain despite fucking off to Guernsey.
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 18, 2024 19:59:28 GMT
It's funny how quickly these blokes can go from unacceptable face of capitalism to top-bloke-never-doubted-him. Like Jim Radcliffe. A bit like Guy Hands reinvented himself as wise guru of Remain despite fucking off to Guernsey. Who says they have?
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 18, 2024 20:21:20 GMT
It's funny how quickly these blokes can go from unacceptable face of capitalism to top-bloke-never-doubted-him. Like Jim Radcliffe. A bit like Guy Hands reinvented himself as wise guru of Remain despite fucking off to Guernsey. Who says they have? Well, the meedja and people who make use of these things! And hopefully Guy is enjoying Guernsey. It's a fabulous place.
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