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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Mar 26, 2023 5:55:03 GMT
Which shows the NEC is useless and controlled by nefarious interests. There is only 1 person in Leicester Labour who ought to be deselected and it's the mastermind behind that purge, Peter Soulsby. So people willing to stand for the conservatives deserve the Labour whip? No, but sometimes emotions in the heat of the moment cause people to do things they normally wouldn't. Let's see how they actually last as Conservatives.
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Post by tonyhill on Mar 26, 2023 7:18:50 GMT
I am not Labour and the Labour Party has no attraction for me, but to be a member of the Labour Party, and particularly to be a Labour Councillor, requires a degree of commitment to a political ideology which, sadly, is not the case for the Liberal Democrats. As far as the Conservative Party is concerned there are ideological strands of conservatism but as we have seen over the past few years there is very little consistency apart from doing whatever is necessary to keep in power. I therefore tend to have more respect for members of the Labour Party which is why I have nothing but contempt for Labour councillors who join the Conservatives. Defecting to the Greens or the LibDems is much more understandable because neither party is completely out of synch with some of the values that might have attracted someone to join the Labour Party in the first place.
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Post by matureleft on Mar 26, 2023 7:43:31 GMT
I am not Labour and the Labour Party has no attraction for me, but to be a member of the Labour Party, and particularly to be a Labour Councillor, requires a degree of commitment to a political ideology which, sadly, is not the case for the Liberal Democrats. As far as the Conservative Party is concerned there are ideological strands of conservatism but as we have seen over the past few years there is very little consistency apart from doing whatever is necessary to keep in power. I therefore tend to have more respect for members of the Labour Party which is why I have nothing but contempt for Labour councillors who join the Conservatives. Defecting to the Greens or the LibDems is much more understandable because neither party is completely out of synch with some of the values that might have attracted someone to join the Labour Party in the first place. Obviously that’s nice to read and I see it as broadly true. But I’ve been a Labour member for 50 years next year (!) and I can say with authority that people join my party in some cases for wholly non-ideological reasons. Without suggesting that anyone in this latest deselection saga acted in any of these ways: 1. Interested in local government either for worthy reasons (supporting a local cause), a wish for personal local recognition, or unworthy (potentially transactional) reasons. Joining the dominant local party is the best route. 2. Personal reasons - family, relationships. I can’t recall an occasion where the party recruited someone local with no obvious political alignment purely to win a seat - I saw other parties do that, often with awkward consequences - but I’d be surprised if it never happened.
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Post by batman on Mar 26, 2023 8:09:10 GMT
I am not Labour and the Labour Party has no attraction for me, but to be a member of the Labour Party, and particularly to be a Labour Councillor, requires a degree of commitment to a political ideology which, sadly, is not the case for the Liberal Democrats. As far as the Conservative Party is concerned there are ideological strands of conservatism but as we have seen over the past few years there is very little consistency apart from doing whatever is necessary to keep in power. I therefore tend to have more respect for members of the Labour Party which is why I have nothing but contempt for Labour councillors who join the Conservatives. Defecting to the Greens or the LibDems is much more understandable because neither party is completely out of synch with some of the values that might have attracted someone to join the Labour Party in the first place. exactly this, Tony. When I felt unable to remain a Labour Party member for a time, the thought of joining or voting for the Tories would have been absolutely anathema to me as they stand for exactly the opposite of what I believe. However bad the treatment meted out to some Labour councillors or other members might be, joining the Tories is a step for which I can have no sympathy whatsoever. Even though I certainly do have Tory friends.
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rcronald
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Post by rcronald on Mar 26, 2023 8:19:00 GMT
I am not Labour and the Labour Party has no attraction for me, but to be a member of the Labour Party, and particularly to be a Labour Councillor, requires a degree of commitment to a political ideology which, sadly, is not the case for the Liberal Democrats. As far as the Conservative Party is concerned there are ideological strands of conservatism but as we have seen over the past few years there is very little consistency apart from doing whatever is necessary to keep in power. I therefore tend to have more respect for members of the Labour Party which is why I have nothing but contempt for Labour councillors who join the Conservatives. Defecting to the Greens or the LibDems is much more understandable because neither party is completely out of synch with some of the values that might have attracted someone to join the Labour Party in the first place. Obviously that’s nice to read and I see it as broadly true. But I’ve been a Labour member for 50 years next year (!) and I can say with authority that people join my party in some cases for wholly non-ideological reasons. Without suggesting that anyone in this latest deselection saga acted in any of these ways: 1. Interested in local government either for worthy reasons (supporting a local cause), a wish for personal local recognition, or unworthy (potentially transactional) reasons. Joining the dominant local party is the best route. 2. Personal reasons - family, relationships. I can’t recall an occasion where the party recruited someone local with no obvious political alignment purely to win a seat - I saw other parties do that, often with awkward consequences - but I’d be surprised if it never happened. I have some respect for the ones who joined to further local cause in an area dominated by one party. I have zero respect for the transactional types who tend to do politics like they are in a 3rd world country, and I have nothing but contempt for Westminster MPs who directly cross the floor from Labour to Tory or vice versa unless they experienced a genuine shift over the years in the commons.
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Post by aargauer on Mar 26, 2023 8:37:26 GMT
Woodward is pretty typical for a con to labour defection. Posho who ends up in the tories by default before realising that they have no ideological fit.
See Lee Anderson, in reverse.
In my view, both sincere. Wakefords obviously isn't and is purely transactional.
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rcronald
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Post by rcronald on Mar 26, 2023 8:53:51 GMT
Woodward is pretty typical for a con to labour defection. Posho who ends up in the tories by default before realising that they have no ideological fit. See Lee Anderson, in reverse. In my view, both sincere. Wakefords obviously isn't and is purely transactional. Woodward probably realized that being in a party that sacks you from the shadow cabinet over section 28 while being closeted gay at the same time wasn't the best fit.
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Post by aargauer on Mar 26, 2023 9:40:16 GMT
Woodward is pretty typical for a con to labour defection. Posho who ends up in the tories by default before realising that they have no ideological fit. See Lee Anderson, in reverse. In my view, both sincere. Wakefords obviously isn't and is purely transactional. Woodward probably realized that being in a party that sacks you from the shadow cabinet over section 28 while being closeted gay at the same time wasn't the best fit. We are back at legitimate grievance, but the wrong way to express it!
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r34t
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Post by r34t on Mar 26, 2023 9:50:22 GMT
Woodward is pretty typical for a con to labour defection. Posho who ends up in the tories by default before realising that they have no ideological fit. See Lee Anderson, in reverse. In my view, both sincere. Wakefords obviously isn't and is purely transactional. I get how someone can join a political party & then realise (once they are on the 'inside') that this isn't a great fit & change. But I don't understand how that lightbulb moment happens after you've made it all the way to being an MP, or to a lesser extent a councillor. Baffling.
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Post by thirdchill on Mar 26, 2023 9:53:35 GMT
Woodward is pretty typical for a con to labour defection. Posho who ends up in the tories by default before realising that they have no ideological fit. See Lee Anderson, in reverse. In my view, both sincere. Wakefords obviously isn't and is purely transactional. I get how someone can join a political party & then realise (once they are on the 'inside') that this isn't a great fit & change. But I don't understand how that lightbulb moment happens after you've made it all the way to being an MP, or to a lesser extent a councillor. Baffling. And that this 'lightbulb' moment happens many times, by pure coincidence of course, after being deselected or falling out with your local party. Devil Wincarnate 's description of them belonging to the 'councillor party' is definitely the most accurate in these cases, particularly for a number of the direct party switchers.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 26, 2023 9:57:44 GMT
In areas where one party is predominant, it's quite usual for local people who are generally interested in local government but not ideologically committed to join the establishment party. Hence Labour in the north-east, Conservatives in the home counties. There are certainly some recent Conservative councillors in Westminster who I could name who were basically non-political but just wanted to be involved in the council.
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Mar 26, 2023 10:13:02 GMT
In areas where one party is predominant, it's quite usual for local people who are generally interested in local government but not ideologically committed to join the establishment party. Hence Labour in the north-east, Conservatives in the home counties. There are certainly some recent Conservative councillors in Westminster who I could name who were basically non-political but just wanted to be involved in the council. And that can work down to ward level as well. Even in an authority where your party is not pre-eminent, they might be in a particular ward which is the only place someone wants to represent so you get involved with the party that can facilitate that.
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rcronald
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Post by rcronald on Mar 26, 2023 10:16:12 GMT
Woodward probably realized that being in a party that sacks you from the shadow cabinet over section 28 while being closeted gay at the same time wasn't the best fit. We are back at legitimate grievance, but the wrong way to express it! I Wasn’t saying it as a grievance (I’m straight), just theorizing about the moment he realized he wasn’t a Tory.
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pl
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Post by pl on Mar 26, 2023 10:27:19 GMT
In areas where one party is predominant, it's quite usual for local people who are generally interested in local government but not ideologically committed to join the establishment party. Hence Labour in the north-east, Conservatives in the home counties. There are certainly some recent Conservative councillors in Westminster who I could name who were basically non-political but just wanted to be involved in the council. Those councillors who are not politically committed can cause mayhem when they get into leadership positions. I've seen examples where they don't really care about the collateral damage to their party as long as their pet project goes through. They also in my experience don't particularly care about election campaigning beyond their own re-election, and frequently lack political 'antennas.'
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CatholicLeft
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Post by CatholicLeft on Mar 26, 2023 10:34:17 GMT
In areas where one party is predominant, it's quite usual for local people who are generally interested in local government but not ideologically committed to join the establishment party. Hence Labour in the north-east, Conservatives in the home counties. There are certainly some recent Conservative councillors in Westminster who I could name who were basically non-political but just wanted to be involved in the council. Puts me in mind of a Michael Flanders introduction to one of his stories "Our local council are non-political, all Conservatives dontcha know."
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Post by matureleft on Mar 26, 2023 11:08:51 GMT
The other dimension I mentioned is the personal. I’ve noted a number of people changing parties as their marriage or partnership breaks down. And I’ve noted in politicians from the Asian community quite strong family pulls - a key family member changes party and others do too. I questioned one I knew on that.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Mar 26, 2023 13:24:46 GMT
In areas where one party is predominant, it's quite usual for local people who are generally interested in local government but not ideologically committed to join the establishment party. Hence Labour in the north-east, Conservatives in the home counties. There are certainly some recent Conservative councillors in Westminster who I could name who were basically non-political but just wanted to be involved in the council. Puts me in mind of a Michael Flanders introduction to one of his stories "Our local council are non-political, all Conservatives dontcha know." When I was a parish councillor, there was a lot of concern about politicisation of the parish council, by which they meant having parish councillors who actually acknowledged the partisan affiliation everybody knew they had.
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r34t
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Post by r34t on Mar 26, 2023 13:38:45 GMT
In areas where one party is predominant, it's quite usual for local people who are generally interested in local government but not ideologically committed to join the establishment party. Hence Labour in the north-east, Conservatives in the home counties. There are certainly some recent Conservative councillors in Westminster who I could name who were basically non-political but just wanted to be involved in the council. Those councillors who are not politically committed can cause mayhem when they get into leadership positions. I've seen examples where they don't really care about the collateral damage to their party as long as their pet protect goes through. They also in my experience don't particularly care about election campaigning beyond their own re-election, and frequently lack political 'antennas.' Ah, so you've heard of BaNES ...
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Post by aargauer on Mar 26, 2023 15:10:36 GMT
Puts me in mind of a Michael Flanders introduction to one of his stories "Our local council are non-political, all Conservatives dontcha know." When I was a parish councillor, there was a lot of concern about politicisation of the parish council, by which they meant having parish councillors who actually acknowledged the partisan affiliation everybody knew they had. Dont ask don't tell still operational in Ely!
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Post by greenchristian on Mar 27, 2023 9:14:25 GMT
Woodward is pretty typical for a con to labour defection. Posho who ends up in the tories by default before realising that they have no ideological fit. See Lee Anderson, in reverse. In my view, both sincere. Wakefords obviously isn't and is purely transactional. I get how someone can join a political party & then realise (once they are on the 'inside') that this isn't a great fit & change. But I don't understand how that lightbulb moment happens after you've made it all the way to being an MP, or to a lesser extent a councillor. Baffling. In addition to what's already been said there are instances of councillors who have been actively recruited by a party because they are established community activists/leaders, and thus make for a good candidate. Such candidates didn't actually choose their party, so have relatively little attachment to it.
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